Martin Armstrong Discussion

[rpietila]

The main reason he doesn't think crypto can survive, because he is convinced that once the crypto currency movement is getting bigger then the government will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy it or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain what it is today. I think Armstrong (unfortunately) is completely correct about that.

Haha I first read that the cryptocurrency movement is getting bigger and will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy [the government] or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain.

Perhaps it is a matter of perception how you feel the world is heading. I have never been more convinced of the victory of the liberty than today.

The use of the word simply was especially nice.

[jehst]

The main reason he doesn't think crypto can survive, because he is convinced that once the crypto currency movement is getting bigger then the government will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy it or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain what it is today. I think Armstrong (unfortunately) is completely correct about that.

Haha I first read that the cryptocurrency movement is getting bigger and will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy [the government] or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain.

Perhaps it is a matter of perception how you feel the world is heading. I have never been more convinced of the victory of the liberty than today.

I have mixed feelings, I dont know if the government will really allow bitcoin to exist once they realize that it will put banks out of business.

The 600 year old wealths amassed wont let their dynasty fall, but they could adapt, so miracles could happen.

It doesnt need to destroy banks completely, they can still exsit, but only as a depositor/lender role (the fractional ponzi scheme has to stop).


On the other hand even if bitcoin emerges victorius, we dont know how it will shape society, or if it will be good for it. It will certainly summon new challenges.

Governments and banks are happy to lend pretend-money. I don't think they would like the idea of actually generating capital and lending their own capital.

[OROBTC]

...

Armstrong publishes a some interesting items today.

"Debt Forgiveness / Cancellations"

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38560

He discusses debt cancellations in the distant past, and why they are unlike today's government debts.  See his pictures of Mesopotamian artifacts.  Also, he was considering funding excavation of an ancient home in Italy, where there may be books by Greek authors, perhaps never seen before.


"Merkel is Doomed in Germany"

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38594

Merkel's got a problem...  I wonder WHY she even agreed to letting in so many Syrians? 


"Socrates: Political Unrest & Economic Financial Trends"

http://www.armstrongeconomics.com/archives/38514

Armstrong's giant Socrates computer & database system is almost ready for action.  Here's a handy map of Europe and its separatist movements (from the article):

[RealBitcoin]

Governments and banks are happy to lend pretend-money. I don't think they would like the idea of actually generating capital and lending their own capital.

Well they have to get used to it, or perish. They dont really have a choice, they both know that the current system is a horrible ponzi scheme, and I dont think people will put up with another restarted system after the current collapse.

Sure there will be sheeple that will go along, but mostly rich people and those that move big sums will finally get their eyes open, once the geenie is out of the box, it cant go back.

So banks either adapt (which they already choose to do so) or they will slowly get dehydrated from their ponzi liquidity fiat.

[altcoinUK]

The main reason he doesn't think crypto can survive, because he is convinced that once the crypto currency movement is getting bigger then the government will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy it or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain what it is today. I think Armstrong (unfortunately) is completely correct about that.

Haha I first read that the cryptocurrency movement is getting bigger and will simply use all available technologies and tools to destroy [the government] or to reduce it to a niche and insignificant domain.

Perhaps it is a matter of perception how you feel the world is heading. I have never been more convinced of the victory of the liberty than today.

The use of the word simply was especially nice.

Being not an English speaker I am using all kind of words which I guess I shouldn't.

As for the victory of liberty, of course I hope you are right and it will happen, but realistically who will force the bankers and their corrupt government sockpuppets to transfer the power? I always thought the Greeks are firm in standing up for their values and in times when things are not going well. And then, one Sunday the Greek population voted against the terms of the Troika and 5 days later their government agreed to more strict terms than what was refused by the vote. If not even the Greeks can stand up then don't expect the Brits, Scandinavian or German will support any radical changes. Asians' traditionally loyal to their leadership and government, for sure there won't be any changes from that region. Americans? Quite unlikely. So I am not sure who can drive that victory.

[altcoinUK]

Being not an English speaker I am using all kind of words which I guess I shouldn't.

As for the victory of liberty, of course I hope you are right and it will happen, but realistically who will force the bankers and their corrupt government sockpuppets to transfer the power? I always thought the Greeks are firm in standing up for their values and in times when things are not going well. And then, one Sunday the Greek population voted against the terms of the Troika and 5 days later their government agreed to more strict terms than what was refused by the vote. If not even the Greeks can stand up then don't expect the Brits, Scandinavian or German will support any radical changes. Asians' traditionally loyal to their leadership and government, for sure there won't be any changes from that region. Americans? Quite unlikely. So I am not sure who can drive that victory.

Technology.

I`m sure powerful  blacksmith maffias existed in the middle ages that controlled and terrorized the whole economies of towns. Where are they now?

Banks have only temporary power in this game, and once better technology comes out, they either adapt or perish. Bitcoin is one of them.

No. Blacksmith maffia has nothing to do with the nature of power, rulers nor the government which didn't change in the last 4000 years. Armstrong talks about that quite frequently that governments and societies make the same mistakes over and over in the last 4000 years.

No doubt technology will change the society, the knowledge economy change the structure of work force, but it is unclear whether it creates a more powerful state or not. Many believes, the large unemployed workforce - which will be the direct result of knowledge economy and automation - at least temporarily will result in stronger, more centralized, more totalitarian governments.

Even I believe Bitcoin is the greatest innovation since the born of internet, Bitcoin obviously not change anything regarding the influence of banks on government, that has been and will be for a while static.

[altcoinUK]

No. Blacksmith maffia has nothing to do with the nature of power, rulers nor the government which didn't change in the last 4000 years. Armstrong talks about that quite frequently that governments and societies make the same mistakes over and over in the last 4000 years.

No doubt technology will change the society, the knowledge economy change the structure of work force, but it is unclear whether it creates a more powerful state or not. Many believes, the large unemployed workforce - which will be the direct result of knowledge economy and automation - at least temporarily will result in stronger, more centralized, more totalitarian governments.

Even I believe Bitcoin is the greatest innovation since the born of internet, Bitcoin obviously not change anything regarding the influence of banks on government, that has been and will be for a while static.

My understanding of entropy and the expanding universe is, that eventually all things will decentralize themselves.

Because the default state of existence is disorder, and order is itself just an anomaly. Now you could create a somewhat more organized decentralized system but that will last too temporarly.

The nature of centralized power (governments, monarchies, dictators,etc) is just an anomaly, a temporary one, it may last 4000 years of 40,000 years but eventually it will dissapear.


I personally think either technology itself will reorganize society, or humanity will have to colonize other planets to even the playing field.

A possible encounter with aliens could also reorganize society.


Or it can just be the collapse of the monetary system. All these events can put a shockwave in social structures and social interactions and can change society.

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

[CoinCube]

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

Justification for New World Order: Part 1, 2, 3, 4

The evolution of the social contract appears to be a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. I suspect that in the future republics will be consumed by world government, world government will evolve into decentralized government, and decentralized government will finally mature into a shared consensus among individuals with limited or no government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. To borrow from the links in the opening post each iteration increases the amount of entropy the system can sustainably support.

[RealBitcoin]

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

Then a biological mutation is necessary, to escape the sheeple (although the elite wants to control human evolution too). The odds are really stacked against us.

Maybe humanity has no other destiny but to be wiped out . It was nature's failed experiment, and a more advanced species will come along that will use their instincts less and their brains more.

[hdbuck]

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

Justification for New World Order: Part 1, 2, 3, 4

The evolution of the social contract appears to be a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. I suspect that in the future republics will be consumed by world government, world government will evolve into decentralized government, and decentralized government will finally mature into a shared consensus among individuals with limited or no government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. To borrow from the links in the opening post each iteration increases the amount of entropy the system can sustainably support.

hum i think you left out corporations. imho they are to replace the obsolete governments at some point.

big fat corporations, ruling over the new world order.

consumerism, eugenism, transhumanism et al. y know...

[altcoinUK]

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

Then a biological mutation is necessary, to escape the sheeple (although the elite wants to control human evolution too). The odds are really stacked against us.

Maybe humanity has no other destiny but to be wiped out . It was nature's failed experiment, and a more advanced species will come along that will use their instincts less and their brains more.

Honestly, I have no idea. I admire your intellect and your ability to grasp that difficult subject of human destiny, but I was mainly wondering about shorter term events. I am not 20, not even 30, not even 40 ... fucking hell I am not listing the rest ... therefore I was thinking what's going to happen until the year 2032 turning point that Armstrong defined. Around that time the automation, robotics and IoT adoption will make the 50% of currently known jobs obsolete already. The governments will have to deal with that transition and large amount of unemployed workforce. I know, I know, the knowledge economy will create new opportunities in other areas, but still, there will be a radical shift in the society terms of employment opportunities as well as about employability of the workforce (many, lot more than today simply won't be employable at all). The industrial revolution 200 years ago caused quite a lot issues, but this will be a significantly bigger shift.

[1aguar]

I am not sure what make you think that. The history of mankind - as Armstrong points it out frequently - indicates the very opposite of such decentralization. There are attempts from time to time to fix the society, but then we go back to the very same cycle.

The issue with colonizing other planets IMHO is that the resources which need for the colonization controlled by those from whom you want to escape. I assume the colonization of other planets will be the same as the colonization of continents was: implementing the very same system a bit farther.

Justification for New World Order: Part 1, 2, 3, 4

The evolution of the social contract appears to be a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. I suspect that in the future republics will be consumed by world government, world government will evolve into decentralized government, and decentralized government will finally mature into a shared consensus among individuals with limited or no government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. To borrow from the links in the opening post each iteration increases the amount of entropy the system can sustainably support.

hum i think you left out corporations. imho they are to replace the obsolete governments at some point.

big fat corporations, ruling over the new world order.

consumerism, eugenism, transhumanism et al. y know...

You are right; fascism is a far more probable result of the NWO than decentralized government; "if voting changed anything, they would make it illegal".

[CoinCube]

Justification for New World Order: Part 1, 2, 3, 4

The evolution of the social contract appears to be a progressive climb to higher potential energy systems with increased degrees of freedom. The state of nature begat tribalism. Tribalism grew into despotism. Despotism advanced into monarchy. Monarchies were replaced by republics. I suspect that in the future republics will be consumed by world government, world government will evolve into decentralized government, and decentralized government will finally mature into a shared consensus among individuals with limited or no government.

Each iteration has a common theme for each advance increases the number of individuals able to engage in cooperative activity while lowering the number of individuals able to defect. To borrow from the links in the opening post each iteration increases the amount of entropy the system can sustainably support.

hum i think you left out corporations. imho they are to replace the obsolete governments at some point.

big fat corporations, ruling over the new world order.

consumerism, eugenism, transhumanism et al. y know...

You are right; fascism is a far more probable result of the NWO than decentralized government; "if voting changed anything, they would make it illegal".

I agree that global corporations and those that own them would likely have disproportionate influence in any future world government. They have similar disproportionate influence today so I am unsure how much worse it would be. The future role of consumerism, eugenics, and transhumanism seems more difficult to predict.

I would also agree that (at least in the short term) a global world government has almost no chance of bring decentralized. It may also be more authoritarian Especially when compared to countries with a history of strong personal liberties like the USA.

My argument rests on the premise that despite these flaws humanity as a whole will be more free under such a system then it is today.
 

The role of the social contract is to maximize individual freedom to build wealth, prosperity and happiness via cooperation while minimizing individual freedom to prosper from coercion, violence and defection.

With this framework in mind will a transition to a one world government represent an improvement. I believe the answer to this question is yes. The transition from nation states to a world government contains the potential finally eliminate large scale tribe on tribe and nation on nation war and violence. The importance of such an achievement cannot be overstated.

A diffuse decentralized world government ... would be of course be superior to a centralized one. However, I doubt we can smoothly transition to such a decentralized system from our current state. We lack both the technology and more importantly the education to make it work. Like our primitive forefathers forced to settle for monarchy as an incremental improvement over despotism a loose centralized world government is an incremental improvement a stepping stone to something better.

[1aguar]

CoinCube,
Nobody likes the bankers' wars, it is true; however, your solution to "Just initiate the one-world slavery system (Communism) and it will all go away" is exactly the perspective that is desired by those who seek to terminate over 90% of the human life on this planet--through violence! By no means is the NWO benevolent towards human life. You have been hoodwinked!

[hdbuck]

CoinCube,
Nobody likes the bankers' wars, it is true; however, your solution to "Just initiate the one-world slavery system (Communism) and it will all go away" is exactly the perspective that is desired by those who seek to terminate over 90% of the human life on this planet--through violence! By no means is the NWO benevolent towards human life. You have been hoodwinked!

NWO's end game: depopulation

[RealBitcoin]

Honestly, I have no idea. I admire your intellect and your ability to grasp that difficult subject of human destiny, but I was mainly wondering about shorter term events. I am not 20, not even 30, not even 40 ... fucking hell I am not listing the rest ... therefore I was thinking what's going to happen until the year 2032 turning point that Armstrong defined. Around that time the automation, robotics and IoT adoption will make the 50% of currently known jobs obsolete already. The governments will have to deal with that transition and large amount of unemployed workforce. I know, I know, the knowledge economy will create new opportunities in other areas, but still, there will be a radical shift in the society terms of employment opportunities as well as about employability of the workforce (many, lot more than today simply won't be employable at all). The industrial revolution 200 years ago caused quite a lot issues, but this will be a significantly bigger shift.

I`m also not 30 yet, I`ve learned about humanity pretty quickly. It's really not that hard, plus I got a big thirst for exploration and understanding.

I could probably forecast that humanity is not fit for survival in the very long term, it will probably be wiped out in the coming 1000 years, however in the short term it will probably be a chaos too.

The automation is a big problem, and socialism will grow. With that crime and social distorder will too.

I can hardly doubt this economy will last more than 5 years, and when the welfare runs out, and no job possibility will there be, many people will get hurt.

And I don't even think war will come, because the weaponry is too dangerous. I think it will be just the mere civil disorder and famine that will wipe many people out.

I dont want to be a doom forecaster but I think if the economy really gets destroyed, at least 3 billion people will be wiped out.

[CoinCube]

CoinCube,
Nobody likes the bankers' wars, it is true; however, your solution to "Just initiate the one-world slavery system (Communism) and it will all go away" is exactly the perspective that is desired by those who seek to terminate over 90% of the human life on this planet--through violence! By no means is the NWO benevolent towards human life. You have been hoodwinked!

NWO's end game: depopulation

I suspect that the formation of a one world government is an economic inevitability at this point.

Bankrupt countries and their handout dependent populations will line up to eagerly surrender national sovereignty as this will be the only means to pay the bills. Greece is the future model for most of the indebted world.

Thus the question we face is not whether to implement NWO as that ship has sailed. The relevant query is what can be done to limit the inevitable centralization in such a system and ensure that it is not hostile to human life.

[OROBTC]

...

CoinCube just wrote:

"Bankrupt countries and their handout dependent populations will line up to eagerly surrender national sovereignty as this will be the only means to pay the bills. Greece is the future model for most of the indebted world."

That is an interesting idea, I had not seen that before, and it is worth thinking about.  It makes a lot of sense, that FSA populations would get in line to get food...

I definitely am more suspicious of a consolidating NWO and its benevolence.  I do not see how that is predictable.  One thing I have learned in my 59 years is that it is very hard to predict the future...

*   *   *

trollercoaster

I LIKE your avatar! 

[rpietila]

You forget the evolution of consciousness dudes! Try google and watch some videos on the topic for a few days. You give too much credit to fear, which is only mind control by the guys whom you don't want to lead your life!

[RealBitcoin]

You forget the evolution of consciousness dudes! Try google and watch some videos on the topic for a few days. You give too much credit to fear, which is only mind control by the guys whom you don't want to lead your life!

I`m not into this new age stuff but i see some empirical evolution too. Yes human awareness starts to rise, but I dont think it will be enough.

What 5-10% of the population is aware? Thats dangerously low %.

Its better than anywhere in the history of mankind, but still very low, and not enough to stop the carnage. However the 5-10% will be the survivors, and the rest of them will perish because they were unprepared.

It's sad, but nobody asked the dinosaurs weather they want to go extinct or not. These things just happen suddenly, and if you are unprepared, well then bad luck.