Butterflylabs Huge SCAM

[underminer]

What does anybody think that the odds are that new production of bitcoins will become harder in the next few months?

I say its probably fairly high that it will become increasingly difficult and possibly "imposibru" for the small miner in the next year.  But I also say there are so many alternate crypto-currencies (even as of just right now) and so much apparent momentum by all the bitcoin semi-profit, semi-hobbyists out there that it won't be a big deal.

 We will just mine the next new thing lol. Chill out!

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[almwaysa]

You do realize that other companies are offering ASICs right?
https://www.btcfpga.com/index.php?route=product/category&path=61

[mrb]

volavak : you should start a bet at http://betsofbitco.in/ , you could make some coin if you are right.

I strongly encourage volavak to put his money where his mouth is by betting against http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665
There are 50 coins for you to win...

[jwzguy]

volavak : you should start a bet at http://betsofbitco.in/ , you could make some coin if you are right.

I strongly encourage volavak to put his money where his mouth is by betting against http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=665
There are 50 coins for you to win...

Seeing as how he just registered 3 days ago and likely has an ulterior motive, I wouldn't be holding my breath on that.

[enginehead]

we'll know when the network hashrate hits the roof.

[Martin666]

Since over 10 days I wait, that BFL (office@butterflylabs.com) confirms my BTC payment.
I already sent them 3 emails but until now no reply...

I hope they "are just busy"....  

Edit (10/02/2012): Finally answered and confirmed it 

[underminer]

Excuse me for not clicking the link. 

What kind of bets I might take that and let you know how it works out.  I have coins to spare, is hobby, not anything I care about lol.

[legolouman]

Sonny isn't the CEO, he is an upper level executive, however. The BFL ASIC technology was set to be the speed it was via a software lock on the clock speeds. They have in the past said that they could increase it if they had competition, otherwise they would likely make an 'unlocked' version. The Jalepeno is simply a locked down version of the SC Single.

The release of the Avalon's raw numbers made them increase their hashrate, they have most likely unlocked the chips to their full potential. Several other ASIC developers have also mentioned the ability to increase their chip's potential.

Regarding their authenticity and marketing methods. I personally think they are a little shaky, but there is a lot going on for a small company. From the pictures I've seen "leaked" from their site, I do not anticipate BFL shipping until very late 2012, especially after this new firmware change.


I feel this is getting redundant; there is a search feature. I recommend you change your title unless you have hard proof (a simple '?' amendment would work for me), otherwise you are just spreading FUD and we have enough of that.


EDIT: After looking at what board this was in, I realized I'm in newbies. Sorry for being a little more ranty that I should have been. There are many other threads like this, just not necessarily in newbie.

[Shadow383]

Sonny isn't the CEO, he is an upper level executive, however. The BFL ASIC technology was set to be the speed it was via a software lock on the clock speeds. They have in the past said that they could increase it if they had competition, otherwise they would likely make an 'unlocked' version. The Jalepeno is simply a locked down version of the SC Single.

The release of the Avalon's raw numbers made them increase their hashrate, they have most likely unlocked the chips to their full potential. Several other ASIC developers have also mentioned the ability to increase their chip's potential.

Regarding their authenticity and marketing methods. I personally think they are a little shaky, but there is a lot going on for a small company. From the pictures I've seen "leaked" from their site, I do not anticipate BFL shipping until very late 2012, especially after this new firmware change.


I feel this is getting redundant; there is a search feature. I recommend you change your title unless you have hard proof (a simple '?' amendment would work for me), otherwise you are just spreading FUD and we have enough of that.


EDIT: After looking at what board this was in, I realized I'm in newbies. Sorry for being a little more ranty that I should have been. There are many other threads like this, just not necessarily in newbie.

Firmware's the least of their troubles - I'd be surprised at this point if they actually have a working device yet...

(full disclosure, I have a couple of jalepenos and a bASIC pre-ordered)

[Este Nuno]

BFL probably isn't a scam. And it's going to be tough for a lot of people with the perfect storm of the reward drop to 25 and the introduction of ASICs.

[legolouman]

Sonny isn't the CEO, he is an upper level executive, however. The BFL ASIC technology was set to be the speed it was via a software lock on the clock speeds. They have in the past said that they could increase it if they had competition, otherwise they would likely make an 'unlocked' version. The Jalepeno is simply a locked down version of the SC Single.

The release of the Avalon's raw numbers made them increase their hashrate, they have most likely unlocked the chips to their full potential. Several other ASIC developers have also mentioned the ability to increase their chip's potential.

Regarding their authenticity and marketing methods. I personally think they are a little shaky, but there is a lot going on for a small company. From the pictures I've seen "leaked" from their site, I do not anticipate BFL shipping until very late 2012, especially after this new firmware change.


I feel this is getting redundant; there is a search feature. I recommend you change your title unless you have hard proof (a simple '?' amendment would work for me), otherwise you are just spreading FUD and we have enough of that.


EDIT: After looking at what board this was in, I realized I'm in newbies. Sorry for being a little more ranty that I should have been. There are many other threads like this, just not necessarily in newbie.

Firmware's the least of their troubles - I'd be surprised at this point if they actually have a working device yet...

(full disclosure, I have a couple of jalepenos and a bASIC pre-ordered)

My point is that the "firmware update" is likely how they plan on achieving double the hashrate. In terms of progress, final renders of the Jalepeno enclosure were floating around a couple weeks ago. Likely that they are just going for a production run of those now in China. There's time left, for sure.

[codro]

If everyone else is mining at 1TH/s we're back to no profit for the average miner. You only make a profit if you are "lucky" enough to get an EARLY ASIC or you have access to free power.

Not true - I actually did the math on this (based on 10000 pre-orders) if every single one of those is a 1th/s sc rig, the network difficulty will increase by a factor of 40.

in that cast - you're sc rig would make you just over 8 btc per day. at currect rates thats over $100. That's $3000. That's 10% a month. 120% per year. 10 month ROI.

A stellar investment if you can afford it.

~

as for me, I've already invested in bfl singles, and have sc upgrades ordered for 1 of them (It's in the 2500 range) so I'm hoping to catch a bit of that wave, but if I don't no big deal. I'm also planning on getting a couple of pre-orders in for bASICs - since (while the prev hardware was lackluster) I love the level of customer service given...

You should all do what any smart investor would do - act to mitigate your risk own risk.

There's risk in pre-ordering a product that doesn't currently exist --- there's risk in not - because you'll have dead time where you aren't earning. Spread it around get orders in with competitors.

I don't think your math is right. Currently there are roughly 7200 bitcoins generated per day, if 10000 equal powered asics were to compete (disregarding everything else), that is less than 1 bitcoin per day per unit.

And given the reward drop, it's going to be less than half a bitcoin per day before these ship. So you're looking at 10+ years at current rates to break even.

[squeept]

I understand skepticism, and being cautious. I don't understand the certainty that it's a scam that most of these people seem to have

[Fjordbit]

ASIC are not power hungry like GPU's which is part of the appeal!

Then people will buy MORE asics than they did with gpu. So the 1th/s will mine even less 

That's not really true. The key metric here is continuous watts/capital outlay, because ROI will drive how many ASICs are purchased. In this regard, ASICs beat GPUs by an order of magnitude, and FPGAs by about a factor of 2.

[bthomas]

you can taste the crazy on this thread.

[Richy_T]

ASIC are not power hungry like GPU's which is part of the appeal!

Then people will buy MORE asics than they did with gpu. So the 1th/s will mine even less  

That's not really true. The key metric here is continuous watts/capital outlay, because ROI will drive how many ASICs are purchased. In this regard, ASICs beat GPUs by an order of magnitude, and FPGAs by about a factor of 2.

That depends on other factors though. Bitcoin was only a small part of buying my GPU so ROI should be relatively quick (especially if I remember to get that rebate form in).

I'm fairly new to this, admittedly but it seems like buying specialized hardware for mining may be marginal at best at this point. Unless you're just doing it for altruistic reasons, you might be better off investing your money in Bitcoins up front and waiting for the value to go up (or not).

As to this company in particular, the fact that they have a convicted scammer in there (allegedly) is a big, big red flag to me. Even if I was optimistic about the technology, I'd probably be looking for it elsewhere.

[NodEx]

People focused on mining and seeing gains and profits out of mining are missing the point of Bitcoin. They're also missing where the real money is.

Once everyone has an ASIC, it'll be just the same as when no one had them. Except the community will have sent a lot of money to Butterflylabs.

[Aahzman]

People focused on mining and seeing gains and profits out of mining are missing the point of Bitcoin. They're also missing where the real money is.

Once everyone has an ASIC, it'll be just the same as when no one had them. Except the community will have sent a lot of money to Butterflylabs.

"And when everybody's super...then no one will be."

[underminer]

That line is in fact why I chose my handle.

[FLHippy]

People focused on mining and seeing gains and profits out of mining are missing the point of Bitcoin.

(true point removed and I totally agree but lets address the above for a moment)

Without the miners to secure the network it would be shit, so you're missing the point.

I've seen so many people on a moral high ground claiming "BITCOIN WASN'T MADE FOR MINERS" when in fact it was, is, and will die without.

When it stops being profitable to mine, you better sell your coins fast cause this shit's gonna crash faster than a yugo with bald tires on an icy road.

I suspect the number of $$$ invested in GPU mining will cause an alternate currency to take off once the reward halves or once these ASICs finally materialize.

Also, the word is out... the end is near.. the scammers who have been being good, gaining rep... they're all gonna scam you. You can expect people you trusted to flip and become a scammer. It's the name of the game.. the funds are drying up, call in your markers.