Nefario

[EskimoBob]

I have read his blogentry the way that he went through half of the lists of users that got a double payment. So i think he is contacting them one by one and forcing them, maybe with their asset infos or naming them on the board or something like that. In a week he went through half of the list and i think in another week the rest should be done. Whatever the result will be then. I dont mind if he make the users public that keep others users money hostage. I mean thats no better than nefario keeping the asset infos hostage. These users have no right to complain. Whoever they still are.

How does that work exactly? Nefario says he paid Jack Smith twice. Jack Smith says, yes Nefario paid him some extra bitcoins, but Nefario is also holding his asset ownership interest hostage and that's worth more than the Bitcoins he's holding. He'll also say he holds Nefario responsible for breaching GLBSE's agreement to protect his ownership interest and that his damages exceed the overpayment. He'll say he's tried in good faith to negotiate with Nefario/GLBSE and failed, just as everyone else has.

So sure, Nefario could do this, but what's the point? Honestly, I'd advise people not to return any overpayments because it may be all they ever get for GLBSE betraying them. It would be different, of course, if Nefario/GLBSE were in good standing, but they're trying to get money back from their victims -- victims to whom they still owe.

JoelKatz, thank you for replacing that "look, lots of nose hair!" picture with this swell portrait of yourself. Nice. All you need to do now is paint that lovely orange shirt black, add more uniform curls to your wig and call yourself The Moral Compass The First.  (relax, this is just a friendly teasing) Togas are nice too, btw

What we need is a third and impartial party, who helps to clear up this mess. Call it a escrow or what ever.
Some received extra coin and now are told ".... I'd (The Moral Compass The First) advise people not to return any overpayments because ...." Sorry, but wtf are you to tell me to become a liar and a thieve? Sure, your recommendation makes some sense on emotional level but this attitude will not help anyone to move forward. Do not get me wrong, I am not taking sides here and I do not trust that James guy too.
I had few pennies as BTC in GLBSE account but lots of those "share" thingies and I am a hostage too, because some fucktards got more coin back than they deserved. Rest of us are holding our dicks and waiting, I guess.  
 
Good news is, that most of people have actually returned the extra coin they got. - This is really good start.
Problem is, that James has done nothing to show that he really plans to release the shares info and that he is willing to stop fucking around with honest ones.  
James knows how has got extra coin and who has not - start working with those, who have returned the mistakenly overpaid coins.
James, use some third party to be a middle man, if you have to, but for fuck sake, lets move on with this.
Let us know, what is going on here: http://blog.glbse.com/  if you hate this forum so much

Who has bothered to call James and actually talk to him? Maybe calm him down, offered some help or advice? Anyone?

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[memvola]

Rest of us are holding our dicks and waiting, I guess.  

That's probably the plan anyway. I'm having a hard time believing the double payment was unintentional. Even if they were, it's still difficult to believe that James is blocking further payments in good faith. He has zero reason not to continue paying. He was already paying 90%, he could have resumed as 85%. No one is naive enough to believe that they can use peer pressure to get people to return double payments. So yes, intentional or not, he is using this to stall, and that's a fact.

ETA: However, I believe that playing his game is the best way to accelerate the process at this point.

ETA: Using the phrase "good faith" is a bit tricky in this situation. I'm also having a hard time believing that Nefario is actually nefarious. There are a lot of things we don't know. It's likely that he is being threatened, and lacking balls does not equate mala fides.

Who has bothered to call James and actually talk to him? Maybe calm him down, offered some help or advice? Anyone?

Many people did and reported here.

[HorseRider]

Who has bothered to call James and actually talk to him? Maybe calm him down, offered some help or advice? Anyone?

I think if anyone is a friend of Nefario, he should try to talk to Nefario, offer Nefario help and understanding, and encourage Nefario to end the GLBSE in an honest way. It has been nearly 4 weeks since the shut down of GLBSE, but it is better than never to deliver what he owe to his customers.

[MPOE-PR]

So in one week lets see what he is saying. If he is naming the users keeping the others users money hostage or whatever new infos he has.

When has "let's wait a little longer" ever had a good outcome for the victims of Bitcoin enterprise clusterfucks?

Not to date. It's a bad strategy anyway.

[SebastianJu]

So in one week lets see what he is saying. If he is naming the users keeping the others users money hostage or whatever new infos he has.

When has "let's wait a little longer" ever had a good outcome for the victims of Bitcoin enterprise clusterfucks?

So you have a better idea than playing by the rules the person makes that have all the power in this game? Let me know what you have in mind then.
--------
And to you other guys that are trying to justify that its a good thing to keep other users money hostage... please dont tell me that you own a double payment and this is your little try to get a better feeling with keeping it.

Its not your money. Nefario couldnt care less about you guys keeping this money. Its not his money and he seems to not have a problem when you dont give it back. He simply wouldnt move on with the payments then.
And then... how can you speak about how bad nefario has to be to keep others users and asset infos hostage while you are doing the same. You have no right to criticize him then. Because you are no better.

[SysRun]

Give me a fucking break. I haven't been in this forum non-stop during this whole thing, but who has any confirmation that this is what happened on the scale that is claimed?

What's the difference between this and extortion?

Its like Blagojevich. It's a fucking valuable thing, you just don't give it away for nothing.

[MPOE-PR]

What we need is a third and impartial party, who helps to clear up this mess. Call it a escrow or what ever.

Traditionally it's called a liquidator.

So you have a better idea than playing by the rules the person makes that have all the power in this game? Let me know what you have in mind then.

You never play by the abusive rules arbitrarily made by someone who imagines, with or without cause, that they hold all the power. We don't do it for the government and sure as fuck we shouldn't do it for any barely-literate fuckwit.

Zero tolerance to fuckwittery makes for a clean, business-like environment. The sort of idiocy you propose makes for the sort of environment you wallow in. Wake up.

[conspirosphere.tk]

What we need is a third and impartial party, who helps to clear up this mess. Call it a escrow or what ever.

Traditionally it's called a liquidator.

It's about time.

[HorseRider]

Disclaimer, I am not here to fight about anything, I am not here to tell you what's wrong or what's right or get into any argument. I am done with that. I am here to share what I have been told by Nefario. If you want to listen, listen if not, I won't force you.

This is the situation described to me by Nefario.
Right now about 50% of the double payments has been sent back.
The script for the payout is still broken and James is working to fix it, so that it doesn't send any more double spendings and so that it takes the double spendings into account.
Nefario, is suggesting that if the double spendings are not returned then your account info will not be included in the asset information/list until the payment is sent back.
He could not give me a ETA but it seems like once the script for the payment is fully function, the rest of the payments should follow shortly.

note:(I am not sure of the actual system of asset claim, if it will be a code system similar to the one Goat was given or if it will be a list of information)

I will answer any questions that I feel like and I will ignore the rest.
//DeaDTerra

[JoelKatz]

What we need is a third and impartial party, who helps to clear up this mess. Call it a escrow or what ever.

That would be great, but there's no evidence anyone from GLBSE is willing to reason with anyone.

Some received extra coin and now are told ".... I'd (The Moral Compass The First) advise people not to return any overpayments because ...." Sorry, but wtf are you to tell me to become a liar and a thieve?

No. I'm not advising anyone to lie or steal. I'm saying that if GLBSE is holding your asset ownership and you are holding GLBSE's bitcoins, there is no reason you should give up the only leverage you have while GLBSE is actively screwing you over.

Let me give you an analogy. If you discovered today that Pirate actually sent you a few extra coins in interest, would you pay him back?

Sure, your recommendation makes some sense on emotional level but this attitude will not help anyone to move forward. Do not get me wrong, I am not taking sides here and I do not trust that James guy too.

If you don't trust James, why would you advise the people he is screwing over to give him money?!

I had few pennies as BTC in GLBSE account but lots of those "share" thingies and I am a hostage too, because some fucktards got more coin back than they deserved. Rest of us are holding our dicks and waiting, I guess.

Right, because GLBSE is not negotiating in good faith. The last thing you do with someone who is not negotiating in good faith is give them everything they want and hope they do the right thing.
 

Good news is, that most of people have actually returned the extra coin they got. - This is really good start.

I disagree. It's an awful start. It means there is no negotiating leverage whatsoever.

Problem is, that James has done nothing to show that he really plans to release the shares info and that he is willing to stop fucking around with honest ones.

Not only that, but he doesn't even seem to have any clue *how* to release the share info. And he has totally failed to do so in the past. And he isn't communicating. So unless something forces him to do the right thing, there's a very good chance he won't.

[SebastianJu]

So you have a better idea than playing by the rules the person makes that have all the power in this game? Let me know what you have in mind then.

You never play by the abusive rules arbitrarily made by someone who imagines, with or without cause, that they hold all the power. We don't do it for the government and sure as fuck we shouldn't do it for any barely-literate fuckwit.

Zero tolerance to fuckwittery makes for a clean, business-like environment. The sort of idiocy you propose makes for the sort of environment you wallow in. Wake up.

Good to see you are an idealist... but the government can be replaced. They dont have some kind of secret password for the central bank so that no one could ever get the countries money without knowing the password.

Its simple in this case. You cant do anything when nefario dont want to cooperate. If you know a way to replace him like a government let me know. I wish you could surprise me.

[conspirosphere.tk]

Zero tolerance to fuckwittery makes for a clean, business-like environment.

+ 1

does anyone actually expect this situation to result in "the right thing"?

The only possible "right thing" outcome is to make an example of him, so that in the future scammers will think twice or thrice before scamming.

[Bitcoin Oz]

So in one week lets see what he is saying. If he is naming the users keeping the others users money hostage or whatever new infos he has.

When has "let's wait a little longer" ever had a good outcome for the victims of Bitcoinica enterprise clusterfucks?

Not to date. It's a bad strategy anyway.

FTFY

[HorseRider]

no news.

[DutchBrat]

Not only that, but he doesn't even seem to have any clue *how* to release the share info. And he has totally failed to do so in the past. And he isn't communicating. So unless something forces him to do the right thing, there's a very good chance he won't.

It is really not that difficult:

Send the Asset Issuers a list with email addresses of their investors (the ones that gave Nefario permission to share that info) + number of shares that are being held by those 'addresses'

A weekends work...

[riX]

Not only that, but he doesn't even seem to have any clue *how* to release the share info. And he has totally failed to do so in the past. And he isn't communicating. So unless something forces him to do the right thing, there's a very good chance he won't.

It is really not that difficult:

Send the Asset Issuers a list with email addresses of their investors (the ones that gave Nefario permission to share that info) + number of shares that are being held by those 'addresses'

A weekends work...

Or even easier: let people download their trade history csv-files from glbse.com, just add a PGP or bitcoin address signature to it.
The csv functionality is already implemented, I have my csv but no way to prove to issuers that it's not manipulated.

[HorseRider]

So in one week lets see what he is saying. If he is naming the users keeping the others users money hostage or whatever new infos he has.

When has "let's wait a little longer" ever had a good outcome for the victims of Bitcoinica enterprise clusterfucks?

Not to date. It's a bad strategy anyway.

FTFY

Have you shareholders of GLBSE had meeting recently? Do you have any other information that what's going on with Nefario?

[JoelKatz]

Not only that, but he doesn't even seem to have any clue *how* to release the share info. And he has totally failed to do so in the past. And he isn't communicating. So unless something forces him to do the right thing, there's a very good chance he won't.

It is really not that difficult:

Send the Asset Issuers a list with email addresses of their investors (the ones that gave Nefario permission to share that info) + number of shares that are being held by those 'addresses'

A weekends work...

How do the asset issuers know that the list doesn't just contain email addresses controlled by Nefario? What happens if an asset holder claims to hold shares of an asset but his email address isn't on that list? It's not nearly that simple.

(And these are not impossible problems to solve. For example, if the list is signed by a public key known to be used to sign these lists, the asset issuers can prove a particular email address is or isn't on the list. With proper design, an asset issuer can prove a particular email address is or isn't on the list without revealing the others. It takes effort to design a proper redemption scheme.)

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

Holy crap there is a lot of replies!

How much BTC are Nefario holding ATM?

[Bitcoin Oz]

So in one week lets see what he is saying. If he is naming the users keeping the others users money hostage or whatever new infos he has.

When has "let's wait a little longer" ever had a good outcome for the victims of Bitcoinica enterprise clusterfucks?

Not to date. It's a bad strategy anyway.

FTFY

Have you shareholders of GLBSE had meeting recently? Do you have any other information that what's going on with Nefario?

Can you take me off this list? I am easily overwhelmed by too much
communication. I'm finding all this email exhausting me and
unbalancing my mind which makes working on Bitcoin projects difficult.

Was the last response to me contacting the other shareholders. Most of them have basically washed their hands of glbse.