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Author Topic: IOTA  (Read 588471 times)
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Come-from-Beyond
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October 21, 2015, 09:37:53 PM
 #61

@r0ach, I removed a post of yours that looked as a personal insult.

@all, I'm going to heavily use my moderation privilege against trolling, insults and offtopic. I warned you.
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monsterer
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October 21, 2015, 09:38:57 PM
 #62

Yes, you can see the draft here - http://188.138.57.93/tangle.pdf.

Excellent, thank you very much - reading Smiley
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October 21, 2015, 09:43:25 PM
 #63

CFB, actually our "tree" resembled more of a DAG, but I didn't have a better name for it at the time, trees seemed to be a good enough explanation.

Anyway we don't use either anymore as we moved on to channels at the end of 2014, which is more of a hybrid between a chain and a DAG.  It can leverage the properties of a DAG structure when required, yet apply the fundamentals of a chain for other requirements. Channels then live in partitions, and partitions float about the network and use various meta data which resides in a special global channel we call the LAC (Live Action Channel) to ensure alignment and consistency among partitions (so that one partition isn't doing something that violates another) .

There are some differences between the 2 innovations though, pure DAG can do some stuff that channels cant, and vice versa, for example:

One thing I love about DAGs (and miss from our channel stuff) is handling network splitting, where a sub-portion of the network can operate independently from the main net, then rejoin later at a later time.  DAGs can do this very well, channels not so much.

On the flip side, a DAG is fast but only to a point (one of the main reasons we dropped it) as its a vertical scale, channels and partitions can scale horizontal to many 100,000s tps with sufficient network size.  

Similarities, DAGs and channels both lend themselves to more efficient consensus methods, high performance verification, lighter resource use and a bunch of other things.

IMO choosing between the 2 depends entirely on what it is you want to achieve, both are however, better technologies than pure chains.

Looking forward to more info, please keep us well fed Smiley

Did you mean these channels - http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/716b955c130e6c703fac336ea17b1670/duplex-micropayment-channels.pdf? If yes, then iota will have the both.
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October 21, 2015, 09:45:42 PM
 #64

So, POW with no block reward? Is this a side chain?

PoW with no block reward [to avoid centralization]. No, it's not a sidechain, it's a tangle.
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October 21, 2015, 09:51:39 PM
 #65

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PoW with no block reward [to avoid centralization].

If there is no block reward, why people will care about the mining and secure the network?
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October 21, 2015, 09:55:53 PM
 #66

Like everything in this world: there are two sides. Any technological breakthrough can be used positively and negatively from nuclear energy and nuclear bombs to anonymity and complete surveillance in ledger technology. Usually the benefits outweigh the potential nefarious use-cases. IoT will bring about a revolution in virtually every field from medicine to comfort. IoT will happen no matter what you do, you can try to Ted Kaczynski it away, but it wont happen. The benefits are simply too great. IOTA want to enable a decentral payment method between these devices and give power back to users.

I don't think nuclear power is a valid comparison because I see IoT lending itself far more towards a surveillance state than anything else.  It's not like choosing between energy and bombs.  IoT is inherently kind of an anti-privacy function because it's purpose is to broadcast, communicate, and interact with other devices.  Once you talk about bringing payments into the equation, that brings human on and off ramps to correlate all data with.

One of it's main functions will be to try and force internet users to subsidize websites with micro transactions for content instead of advertising.  Those micro payments will be correlated with unique human identifiers in the end and probably parlayed into some kind of internet ID card.

This is blatantly false. IoT is brought about because humans want more efficient systems, better health, more comfort, more security, more atonomy, better life quality, more immersive experiences, more productivity etc. etc. Are there ways to use this for surveillance? Yes. Is that the main goal? No and if you think so: please go to the doctor.

And there are plenty of decentral anonym ID projects going on that is 100% compatible with IOTA.

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October 21, 2015, 09:57:08 PM
 #67

If there is no block reward, why people will care about the mining and secure the network?

They won't, there must be a constant flow of new transactions for iota to be secure. Or IOTA owners have to "hire" miners. The market will find the best solution, till that there will be decentralized checkpoints made by the initial holders.
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October 21, 2015, 10:14:32 PM
 #68

CFB, actually our "tree" resembled more of a DAG, but I didn't have a better name for it at the time, trees seemed to be a good enough explanation.

Anyway we don't use either anymore as we moved on to channels at the end of 2014, which is more of a hybrid between a chain and a DAG.  It can leverage the properties of a DAG structure when required, yet apply the fundamentals of a chain for other requirements. Channels then live in partitions, and partitions float about the network and use various meta data which resides in a special global channel we call the LAC (Live Action Channel) to ensure alignment and consistency among partitions (so that one partition isn't doing something that violates another) .

There are some differences between the 2 innovations though, pure DAG can do some stuff that channels cant, and vice versa, for example:

One thing I love about DAGs (and miss from our channel stuff) is handling network splitting, where a sub-portion of the network can operate independently from the main net, then rejoin later at a later time.  DAGs can do this very well, channels not so much.

On the flip side, a DAG is fast but only to a point (one of the main reasons we dropped it) as its a vertical scale, channels and partitions can scale horizontal to many 100,000s tps with sufficient network size.  

Similarities, DAGs and channels both lend themselves to more efficient consensus methods, high performance verification, lighter resource use and a bunch of other things.

IMO choosing between the 2 depends entirely on what it is you want to achieve, both are however, better technologies than pure chains.

Looking forward to more info, please keep us well fed Smiley

Did you mean these channels - http://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/716b955c130e6c703fac336ea17b1670/duplex-micropayment-channels.pdf? If yes, then iota will have the both.

No nothing like those, the concept is completely different.  All transactions are committed to the ledger, and don't live in "limbo" at any point off-ledger like that solution.

I'm happy to get more into it now, but its your party Smiley

eMunie, the next step in cryptographic currency.

Web - http://emunie.com  Forums - http://forum.emunie.com Twitter - @eMunie_Currency
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October 21, 2015, 10:24:28 PM
 #69

Looking forward to seeing it in the wild. How do you distribute

< Monero Compile Instructions >   < Track your bitcoins! > < Track them again! > < Monero NVIDIA mining instructions > < MONERODO : An operating system for your dedicated decentralized node device > <<< What is fungibility? >>> 46P88uZ4edEgsk7iKQUGu2FUDYcdHm2HtLFiGLp1inG4e4f9PTb4mbHWYWFZGYUeQidJ8hFym2WUmWc p34X8HHmFS2LXJkf <<< Free subdomains at moneroworld.com!! >>> <<< If you don't want to run your own node, point your wallet to node.moneroworld.com, and get connected to a random node! >>> @@@@@ Simple Monero Node Installer and Monitor for Windows @@@@@
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October 21, 2015, 10:35:33 PM
 #70

How many currency units will there be? Will there be unlimited inflation? If there will be no permanent inflation, will all currency units come into existence at once or over time?
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October 21, 2015, 10:38:22 PM
 #71

How many currency units will there be? Will there be unlimited inflation? If there will be no permanent inflation, will all currency units come into existence at once or over time?

999'999'999.999999999 units. No inflation, only deflation caused by lost tokens. At once, there is no a way to do it over time.
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October 21, 2015, 10:46:41 PM
 #72

How we can buy some?
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October 21, 2015, 10:54:12 PM
 #73

Can you explain to me why this doesn't require every connected IoT that wants to sign a transaction to not have to listen to every transaction on the network?

Doesn't the bandwidth requirements of that limit which sort of devices can participate?

Can a IoT device proxy its request a well powered server?

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October 21, 2015, 10:55:06 PM
 #74

How we can buy some?

Details will come in the coming days. Stay tuned in this thread and/or join our just created twitter account www.twitter.com/iotatoken to keep posted on the developments

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October 21, 2015, 11:00:17 PM
 #75

Very interesting project I'll be following Goodluck Dev
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October 21, 2015, 11:03:08 PM
 #76

So,there will be another TOKEN except Jinn on NXT AE both for Tangle tech?
 
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October 21, 2015, 11:05:36 PM
 #77

Can you explain to me why this doesn't require every connected IoT that wants to sign a transaction to not have to listen to every transaction on the network?

Doesn't the bandwidth requirements of that limit which sort of devices can participate?

Can a IoT device proxy its request a well powered server?

Are you talking about on- or off-tangle payments?
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October 21, 2015, 11:07:21 PM
 #78

So,there will be another TOKEN except Jinn on NXT AE both for Tangle tech?
 



Could you expand on your question? Not entirely sure what you are asking. JINN tokens are unrelated to IOTAs

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October 21, 2015, 11:09:44 PM
 #79

Can you explain to me why this doesn't require every connected IoT that wants to sign a transaction to not have to listen to every transaction on the network?

Doesn't the bandwidth requirements of that limit which sort of devices can participate?

Can a IoT device proxy its request a well powered server?

Are you talking about on- or off-tangle payments?

Lol I don't know. I guess I mean on-tangle, those participating in your algorithm?

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October 21, 2015, 11:14:03 PM
 #80

Lol I don't know. I guess I mean on-tangle, those participating in your algorithm?

For on-tangle payments a device needs to see majority of the transactions. Good news is that it needs this only if it's about to make or check a payment, most of time it can store and broadcast transactions without their verification (only PoW needs to be verified to avoid spam attacks).
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