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Author Topic: IOTA  (Read 645512 times)
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Come-from-Beyond
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November 30, 2015, 09:36:37 AM
 #881

I guess it's time to get a new phone.

Aye, going to buy one with Jinn processor, ARM is vulnerable to viruses and contains NSA backdoor.
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November 30, 2015, 11:59:16 AM
 #882

Come-from-Beyond, I think you said that you and the team will be buying IOTA tokens from your personal funds. And I believe you also said that you will buy as much as you can, because IOTA is that good.

So far 220 Bitcoins have been invested. I don't know if you can consider this "selling like hotcakes", but it seems on the low side to me.

So I would ask, why aren't you buying more?
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November 30, 2015, 12:10:20 PM
 #883

For me it would a little bit a conflict of interest if the founders will invest a lot. Example, imagine the founders are just CfB and iotatoken. So the Bitcoin-Pott at the very end will get halved. 50% for CfB 50% for iototoken. Imagine now the average joe will invest overall 500 Bitcoin during the sale. And CfB and iototoken just decide to invest 2000 Bitcoin each. So Overall Investment 4’500 Bitcoin. CfB and iotatoken will controll 88% of all iota and the Bitcoin they invested the would get anyway back. Possible. So I think it would help if both are quite open about their own investments, because it’s somehow left pocket – right pocket, they don’t have really costs, if they throw something in the Bitcoinbasket – it’s anyway theirs.

NXT-Wallet: NXT-UBDL-3XU4-NQBZ-FT33G
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November 30, 2015, 12:56:30 PM
 #884

Are you walking with pocket TVsets, guys? My phone has 84x48 resolution.  Grin




Well, I'll give it to you.  No one will be hacking that thing!

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 12:57:35 PM
 #885

For me it would a little bit a conflict of interest if the founders will invest a lot. Example, imagine the founders are just CfB and iotatoken. So the Bitcoin-Pott at the very end will get halved. 50% for CfB 50% for iototoken. Imagine now the average joe will invest overall 500 Bitcoin during the sale. And CfB and iototoken just decide to invest 2000 Bitcoin each. So Overall Investment 4’500 Bitcoin. CfB and iotatoken will controll 88% of all iota and the Bitcoin they invested the would get anyway back. Possible. So I think it would help if both are quite open about their own investments, because it’s somehow left pocket – right pocket, they don’t have really costs, if they throw something in the Bitcoinbasket – it’s anyway theirs.
Moreover, probaly many crypto IPOs were already abused this way.
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November 30, 2015, 01:56:23 PM
 #886

So I would ask, why aren't you buying more?

You don't know if I already bought or waiting for the 3rd of Dec.
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November 30, 2015, 02:00:56 PM
 #887

Ofcourse I don't know. Will see how low or high the number will be by then.
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November 30, 2015, 02:01:14 PM
 #888

So I would ask, why aren't you buying more?

You don't know if I already bought or waiting for the 3rd of Dec.

Yes, I suspect that many will wait closer to the end of the sale so they can make an educated guess as to how much they will need to spend to get the 1, 5 or 10% (!!!) they may desire.

Also, this isn't an accusation, but with any bitcoin/crypto related ICO (or token sale,) you never know if the makers have made stealth purchases since transactions can be anonymous.  Who knows if CfB, iotatoken, or any other unknown insider has already deposited 100BTC, from 10 different accounts.

Again, this isn't an accusation but since this is anonymous, you pretty much can only vouch for the shares you've purchased yourself, or shares purchased with fund coming from from known, public BTC/Nxt accounts.

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 02:02:07 PM
 #889

For me it would a little bit a conflict of interest if the founders will invest a lot. Example, imagine the founders are just CfB and iotatoken. So the Bitcoin-Pott at the very end will get halved. 50% for CfB 50% for iototoken. Imagine now the average joe will invest overall 500 Bitcoin during the sale. And CfB and iototoken just decide to invest 2000 Bitcoin each. So Overall Investment 4’500 Bitcoin. CfB and iotatoken will controll 88% of all iota and the Bitcoin they invested the would get anyway back. Possible. So I think it would help if both are quite open about their own investments, because it’s somehow left pocket – right pocket, they don’t have really costs, if they throw something in the Bitcoinbasket – it’s anyway theirs.

Valid point. All that you can do is to ask others to reveal their transactions and you will get upper bound for amount put by me and iotatoken.
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November 30, 2015, 02:02:32 PM
 #890

CfB, can you post the Java code to github for address creation?  Some of us would like to go ahead and get our vanity addresses locked and loaded before the coin release. Wink

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 02:05:13 PM
 #891

CfB, can you post the Java code to github for address creation?  Some of us would like to go ahead and get our vanity addresses locked and loaded before the coin release. Wink

The code is too small to bother with Github - http://188.138.57.93/atoi.java

Code:
import com.sun.net.httpserver.HttpServer;

import java.io.OutputStream;
import java.net.InetSocketAddress;
import java.util.Arrays;

public class atoi {

    private static final int[] INDICES = new int[729];
    private static final int[] F = {0, -1, 1, 0, 1, -1, -1, 1, 0};
    private static final String tryteLetters = "9abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz";
    private static final int[][] tryteTrits = {

            {0, 0, 0},
            {1, 0, 0},
            {-1, 1, 0},
            {0, 1, 0},
            {1, 1, 0},
            {-1, -1, 1},
            {0, -1, 1},
            {1, -1, 1},
            {-1, 0, 1},
            {0, 0, 1},
            {1, 0, 1},
            {-1, 1, 1},
            {0, 1, 1},
            {1, 1, 1},
            {-1, -1, -1},
            {0, -1, -1},
            {1, -1, -1},
            {-1, 0, -1},
            {0, 0, -1},
            {1, 0, -1},
            {-1, 1, -1},
            {0, 1, -1},
            {1, 1, -1},
            {-1, -1, 0},
            {0, -1, 0},
            {1, -1, 0},
            {-1, 0, 0}
    };

    static {

        int index = 0;
        for (int i = 0; i < 729; i++) {

            INDICES[i] = index += index <= 364 ? 364 : -365;
        }
    }

    private static int[] digest(final int[] message) {

        final int[] state = new int[729];
        System.arraycopy(message, 0, state, 0, message.length);
        transform(state);

        return Arrays.copyOf(state, 243);
    }

    private static void transform(final int[] state) {

        final int[] leftPart = new int[729], rightPart = new int[729];
        int index = 0;
        for (int round = 9; round-- > 0; ) {

            for (int i = 0; i < 729; i++) {

                final int a, b;
                leftPart[i] = f(a = state[index], b = state[index = INDICES[i]]);
                rightPart[i] = f(b, a);
            }

            for (int i = 0; i < 729; i++) {

                state[i] = f(leftPart[index], rightPart[index = INDICES[i]]);
            }
        }
    }

    private static int f(final int a, final int b) {

        return F[a + a + a + b + 4];
    }

    public static void main(final String[] args) throws Exception {

        final HttpServer server = HttpServer.create(new InetSocketAddress(9999), 0);
        server.createContext("/", (exchange) -> {

            // Fetch lowercase latin letters and '9' from the request into a seed
            final StringBuilder seed = new StringBuilder();
            for (final char tryteLetter : exchange.getRequestURI().getPath().toCharArray()) {

                if (tryteLetters.indexOf(tryteLetter) >= 0) {

                    seed.append(tryteLetter);
                }
            }

            // Check if there are exactly 81 chars in the seed
            final String response;
            if (seed.length() != 81) {

                // Inform the user that something is wrong with their seed
                response = "Seed length is " + seed.length() + ", must be 81!";

            } else {

                // Translate the seed chars into trits
                int[] seedTrits = new int[243];
                int offset = 0;
                for (final char tryteLetter : seed.toString().toCharArray()) {

                    System.arraycopy(tryteTrits[tryteLetters.indexOf(tryteLetter)], 0, seedTrits, offset, 3);
                    offset += 3;
                }

                // Derive private key fragments from the seed
                final int[][] key = new int[27][];
                final int[] scratchpad = new int[seedTrits.length];
                for (int i = 0; i < key.length; i++) {

                    System.arraycopy(i == 0 ? seedTrits : key[i - 1], 0, scratchpad, 0, scratchpad.length);
                    key[i] = digest(scratchpad);
                }

                // Truncate the private key fragments to 81 trits each
                for (int i = 0; i < key.length; i++) {

                    key[i] = Arrays.copyOf(key[i], 81);
                }

                // Derive public key fragments from the private key fragments, keep them truncated to 81 trits each
                for (int i = 0; i < key.length; i++) {

                    for (int j = 0; j < 27; j++) {

                        key[i] = Arrays.copyOf(digest(key[i]), 81);
                    }
                }

                // Derive a public key from the public key fragments
                final int[] state = new int[729];
                for (int i = 0; i < key.length; ) {

                    System.arraycopy(key[i++], 0, state, 0, 81);
                    System.arraycopy(key[i++], 0, state, 81, 81);
                    System.arraycopy(key[i++], 0, state, 162, 81);
                    transform(state);
                }

                // Negate the trits of the seed
                for (int i = 0; i < seedTrits.length; i++) {

                    seedTrits[i] = -seedTrits[i];
                }

                // Derive a checkpointing key from the seed
                for (int i = 0; i < 12 * 24 * 366; i++) {

                    seedTrits = digest(seedTrits);
                }

                // Translate the keys into text
                final StringBuilder publicKey = new StringBuilder(), checkpointingKey = new StringBuilder();
                for (int i = 0; i < 243; i += 3) {

                    int tryteValue = state[i] + state[i + 1] * 3 + state[i + 2] * 9;
                    if (tryteValue < 0) {

                        tryteValue += 27;
                    }
                    publicKey.append(tryteLetters.charAt(tryteValue));

                    tryteValue = seedTrits[i] + seedTrits[i + 1] * 3 + seedTrits[i + 2] * 9;
                    if (tryteValue < 0) {

                        tryteValue += 27;
                    }
                    checkpointingKey.append(tryteLetters.charAt(tryteValue));
                }

                // Output the keys in a format suitable for copy-pasting
                response = (publicKey.toString() + "_" + checkpointingKey.toString()).toUpperCase();
            }

            // Send the response
            exchange.sendResponseHeaders(200, response.length());
            final OutputStream outputStream = exchange.getResponseBody();
            outputStream.write(response.getBytes("UTF-8"));
            outputStream.close();
        });
        server.start();
    }
}
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November 30, 2015, 02:06:40 PM
 #892

Thank you!

EDIT

I'll play around with this today and see what I can do.  Also, if I write a Vanitygen, I'll see about translating this code to C#.  Why?  For two reasons, it's been my experience that (well written) C# tends to run faster than Java.  Hey, not trying to start a trolling bear fight, it's just my experience.

And, second, I have over 10 years experience in C# since it's the language of most businesses.  I'm way more familiar with it than anything else, which even I find unfortunate.

If I come up with anything useful, I'll post the project to Github.

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 02:14:59 PM
 #893

Thank you!

EDIT

I'll play around with this today and see what I can do.  Also, if I write a Vanitygen, I'll see about translating this code to C#.  Why?  For two reasons, it's been my experience that (well written) C# tends to run faster than Java.  Hey, not trying to start a trolling bear fight, it's just my experience.

And, second, I have over 10 years experience in C# since it's the language of most businesses.  I'm way more familiar with it than anything else, which even I find unfortunate.

If I come up with anything useful, I'll post the project to Github.

Interesting. C# being faster likely means that its JIT compiler is better...

Vanitygen should take into account that a single account should be used as fewer times as possible, preferably only once. It's a side-effect of lazy users penalty.
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November 30, 2015, 02:24:13 PM
 #894

I have just recalled, in the release version 81 char address will be appended with 9 chars of the checksum (to detect mistyped addresses).
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November 30, 2015, 02:24:50 PM
 #895

Vanitygen should take into account that a single account should be used as fewer times as possible, preferably only once. It's a side-effect of lazy users penalty.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand this last statement.  Are you saying that accounts shouldn't be used more than a few times?  In other words, putting an IOTA address in my sig would be a bad idea?  I'd like a bit of clarification so that I understand.

Regarding that C# comment, let me clarify.  It's been my experience than when writing these types of functions in C# vs. Java, C# tends to do  better on Windows machine or even running in a solid Windows VM.  I've not tested .Net apps running in Mono.  I know mono is slower by a considerable factor and in such a case, Java may do MUCH better.

However, concerning the vanitygens I've written, vs. those written in Java, where special dlls (i.e. referencing GPUs or low-level C libraries) are not used, C# has done much better.

I assume this is because Microsoft has greater control of the eco-system and can optimize their jitter to work primarily with their os/kernal, where Oracle is a 3rd party, having to optimize their jitter to work for all environments.

Just a hunch.

Anyway, I've been rolling around in my head, finishing what the old Microcash (lol, I know right!) dreamt up but never saw finished because the head of that ship was... well, I try not to speak ill of anyone, but everyone remembers how CoinHunter/RealSolid was.

Anyway, if I write a coin, it will be in C#.  I like it and no one else (to my knowledge) has done it, so it would be an interesting experience.  Alas, if I'm ever going to do that, I first need to invent a way to add about 4 hours to the average day. Tongue

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 02:26:29 PM
 #896

I have just recalled, in the release version 81 char address will be appended with 9 chars of the checksum (to detect mistyped addresses).

Ok, that makes sense.  So your old, address/pubkey creator is broken/not completely correct?

A Personal Quote on BTT from 2011:
"I'd be willing to make a moderate "investment" if the value of the BTC went below $2.00.  Otherwise I'll just have to live with my 5 BTC and be happy. :/"  ...sigh.  If only I knew.
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November 30, 2015, 02:50:25 PM
 #897

Ok, that makes sense.  So your old, address/pubkey creator is broken/not completely correct?

It's correct, we don't need checksum for the sale.
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November 30, 2015, 02:59:41 PM
 #898

Are you saying that accounts shouldn't be used more than a few times?  In other words, putting an IOTA address in my sig would be a bad idea?

There are no accounts in Iota, it uses Bitcoin's system of inputs/outputs. You can put Iota address into the sig but it will take some time to spend every input. More inputs - more time, this grows exponentially. Iota was designed for IoT, not humans, so some methods used by humans are not very compatible.

Bitcoin would have the same problem if it used the same security enhancement. While Bitcoin doesn't recommend to reuse addresses, Iota goes further and makes it unprofitable by requiring to burn extra electricity.
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November 30, 2015, 09:42:23 PM
 #899

For me it would a little bit a conflict of interest if the founders will invest a lot. Example, imagine the founders are just CfB and iotatoken. So the Bitcoin-Pott at the very end will get halved. 50% for CfB 50% for iototoken. Imagine now the average joe will invest overall 500 Bitcoin during the sale. And CfB and iototoken just decide to invest 2000 Bitcoin each. So Overall Investment 4’500 Bitcoin. CfB and iotatoken will controll 88% of all iota and the Bitcoin they invested the would get anyway back. Possible. So I think it would help if both are quite open about their own investments, because it’s somehow left pocket – right pocket, they don’t have really costs, if they throw something in the Bitcoinbasket – it’s anyway theirs.

This will not happen, for several reasons

#1
We are running a hardware start-up that is developing a new kind of processor for Internet-of-Things, this is what inspired IOTA more than anything. A good portion of the funds raised for IOTA will go to this processor, which will also act as a bootstrapping mechanism for the IOTA network as it scales.

#2
It would be a really stupid strategy. We'll all make infinitely more if IOTA succeeds and gets adopted as a IoT standard even with just a sliver of the tokens than we'd do if we ran a typical pump and dump scheme

#3
We're not just the two of us, we also got another team member and math professor on board (Mtchl). I know he bought some because he told me in a casual comment, none of us has made any effort to inquire amongst each other how much the others will buy, it's a personal decision that does not affect the project in any way.

#4
I was undoubtedly the biggest and most vocal critic of the initial distribution of Nxt, so I would never allow our project to be stifled by bad distribution.


As for how much I will personally buy: not sure yet, still waiting for the last day of pioneer to make the choice. I treat this choice as completley seperate from the project it self.

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December 01, 2015, 08:13:24 AM
 #900

Are you saying that accounts shouldn't be used more than a few times?  In other words, putting an IOTA address in my sig would be a bad idea?

There are no accounts in Iota, it uses Bitcoin's system of inputs/outputs. You can put Iota address into the sig but it will take some time to spend every input. More inputs - more time, this grows exponentially. Iota was designed for IoT, not humans, so some methods used by humans are not very compatible.

Bitcoin would have the same problem if it used the same security enhancement. While Bitcoin doesn't recommend to reuse addresses, Iota goes further and makes it unprofitable by requiring to burn extra electricity.

CFB. I am curious about what your personal end game is. You were once a pioneer in NXT yet choose to leave it when some might argue it needed you most.

Then you started Jinn, raised a market cap of over $10 million at one point and I am not sure whether you left that project or not. I just know there have been a lot of promises made with Jinn but I am not sure about the progress.

Now its Iota.  What is your commitment to this project?

If you haven't heard about what is happening with GAME, check it out.  It's revolutionizing gaming. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1266597.0
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