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Author Topic: IOTA  (Read 1443819 times)
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November 03, 2015, 11:11:52 AM
 #501


OMG don't start with this.
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November 03, 2015, 01:14:15 PM
 #502

I can assure every interested party that anyone that follows IOTA either in this thread, the newsletter or www.twitter.com/iotatoken will be notified in due time and not miss out a single thing.

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November 03, 2015, 04:06:54 PM
 #503

Here:  http://docdro.id/CXDq93a

Upd.: in (1), there should be exp in the sum as well (so that the transition probabilities sum to 1). Already uploaded the corrected version to docdroid.
Thanks for the update. You described an interesting tip selection algorithm. Probably it makes a lot of sense. It makes lazy tips (nice term btw) less likely to be confirmed. However those lazy tips can still be connected to the recent part of the DAG by interested parties. I'm not sure though, that we are considering exactly the same scenario.
The first question. On fig. 1 you placed the second doublespending transaction not to the root of the parasitic subtangle but significantly higher. So the question is: is there a reason why the attacker would want to accumulate PoW not above but below the second doublespending transaction?
The second question. When the attacker reveals his parasitic subtangle, the resulting united tangle contains two contradicting transactions (the doublespends). And the second doublespend (included in the parasitic subtangle) has much more PoW confirming it. So is it just a matter of tip selection? Or should the first doublespend and all transactions depending on it be excluded from the DAG at this point?
P.S. "Excluded from the DAG" isn't the right phrase. I meant shouldn't they be excluded from candidates for confirmation, because they confirm the less confirmed doublespend?

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November 03, 2015, 04:51:20 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2015, 05:33:28 PM by mthcl
 #504

Here:  http://docdro.id/CXDq93a

Upd.: in (1), there should be exp in the sum as well (so that the transition probabilities sum to 1). Already uploaded the corrected version to docdroid.
Thanks for the update. You described an interesting tip selection algorithm. Probably it makes a lot of sense. It makes lazy tips (nice term btw) less likely to be confirmed. However those lazy tips can still be connected to the recent part of the DAG by interested parties. I'm not sure though, that we are considering exactly the same scenario.
The first question. On fig. 1 you placed the second doublespending transaction not to the root of the parasitic subtangle but significantly higher. So the question is: is there a reason why the attacker would want to accumulate PoW not above but below the second doublespending transaction?
The second question. When the attacker reveals his parasitic subtangle, the resulting united tangle contains two contradicting transactions (the doublespends). And the second doublespend (included in the parasitic subtangle) has much more PoW confirming it. So is it just a matter of tip selection? Or should the first doublespend and all transactions depending on it be excluded from the DAG at this point?
P.S. "Excluded from the DAG" isn't the right phrase. I meant shouldn't they be excluded from candidates for confirmation, because they confirm the less confirmed doublespend?

I think there is no way to prevent the attacker to publish a parasite chain that contains a double-spend that, at the moment, has more PoW in it than the legit tx. The idea is that the nodes won't select the attacker's tips, so his double-spend will eventually fall to limbo (and the legit tx will continue to gain weight), even if it had initially more cumulative weight. For that exact reason, the nodes won't use the rule "confirm the more confirmed double-spend", it's rather "the tip that I found first has the priority".

Hope that answers all questions  Smiley

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November 03, 2015, 04:59:24 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2015, 05:51:50 PM by mthcl
 #505

P.S. Probably, that means that the cumulative weights shouldn't be used to decide which tx is legit (at least for "not very old" transactions).  Instead, just run the tip selection algorithm and see which of the two tx's it approves.

P.P.S. Sure, I should have moved the red tx to the beginning of the parasite chain, but, anyhow, that probably changes nothing due to the reasons exposed above.
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November 03, 2015, 06:07:46 PM
Last edit: November 03, 2015, 07:00:48 PM by mthcl
 #506

For reader's convenience: the updated version of the picture from the above link:



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November 03, 2015, 06:13:45 PM
 #507

P.S. Probably, that means that the cumulative weights shouldn't be used to decide which tx is legit (at least for "not very old" transactions).  Instead, just run the tip selection algorithm and see which of the two tx's it approves.
That's quite a significant change to the design, which should be carefully thought over.

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November 04, 2015, 10:06:14 AM
 #508

That's quite a significant change to the design, which should be carefully thought over.

Indeed. The algorithm works good, now I'm running simulations with slightly different formulas trying to find not so computationally intensive one (without exp and log).
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November 04, 2015, 10:44:07 AM
 #509

http://arstechnica.com/unite/2015/10/the-future-is-the-internet-of-things-deal-with-it/
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November 04, 2015, 02:49:34 PM
 #510


Good article.

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November 04, 2015, 04:03:08 PM
 #511

For those who are interested in what hashing function is planned to be used for PoW - https://github.com/JinnLabs/SaM/blob/master/src/SaM.java
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November 05, 2015, 11:53:41 AM
 #512

new idea with new feature, very interest in this project. try to do sth for this .
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November 05, 2015, 02:13:53 PM
 #513

For those who are interested in what hashing function is planned to be used for PoW - https://github.com/JinnLabs/SaM/blob/master/src/SaM.java

So is this SHA-4? Any detailed description or white paper available?

I will try to make a c version toy.
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November 05, 2015, 02:27:47 PM
 #514

So is this SHA-4? Any detailed description or white paper available?

I will try to make a c version toy.

The comments contain the description and all important info.
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November 05, 2015, 04:26:07 PM
 #515

count me in, looking forward to the ICO Sir!
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November 06, 2015, 02:15:22 AM
 #516

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303640604579296580892973264
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November 06, 2015, 07:39:06 AM
 #517



Can someone give few examples about why average Joe will buy IoT-device ? I'm sick of "countless examples" words without actual examples. Don't say countless, give an actual list of 10 or more examples.
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November 06, 2015, 08:12:32 AM
 #518

Sooner or later info and matter will merge.

Computronium.

If this is not already the case ('Were are they?' -  Everywhere...).

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November 06, 2015, 08:19:00 AM
 #519



Can someone give few examples about why average Joe will buy IoT-device ? I'm sick of "countless examples" words without actual examples. Don't say countless, give an actual list of 10 or more examples.

You could have en entire factory with interconnected robots and devices that all interact to supervise processes and take action if something goes wrong.
Cars could be connected to each other to tell each other about traffic and what not.

Think of any instance where it would be beneficial for ordinary things to communicate with each other.

I'm sure as shit not listing 10. Just use your favorite search engine and you'll find plenty.

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November 06, 2015, 09:26:38 AM
 #520

Can someone give few examples about why average Joe will buy IoT-device ?

How about this: Average Joe will buy an IoT device simply because soon there will be no non-IoT devices for sale.  Grin
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