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Author Topic: IOTA  (Read 644219 times)
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TPTB_need_war
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October 26, 2015, 05:20:23 PM
 #241

Does Iota (DAG tangles) need to be only for IoT applications?

What advantage does it have over a normal block chain? Only the faster confirmation time (yet to be quantified) and not needing large blocks (yet all "full" nodes still pretty much need to see all transactions so that aspect of scaling isn't changed from Bitcoin)?

Iota can be used outside of IoT too.

Some advantages are listed here (that thread may be interesting) - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1177633.msg12492916#msg12492916

...

So overall I think this DAG stuff is an improvement over traditional PoW block chains in general, not just for IoT. But I do think I may have a superior design, but I am still analyzing to see what attributes the DAG might have that are superior. The elimination of the blocks and the aliasing error of chain reorganizations perhaps, but seems there are analogous issues in the DAG.

Please do not take my post as desiring to rain on your thread. I won't belabor my points. I am just trying to see where for example we might even collaborate if at all. Looking with an open mind. Cheers.

...

They key advantage I see for DAG tangle form of consensus versus a block chain, my ClickzSync design, and Lightning Networks, is that appending your transaction into the DAG tangle is autonomous and permission-less (notwithstanding you probably want to see as much of the breadth of the tree as possible thus need a reasonably powerful server and internet connection, or delegate to one)! That is a very profound distinction!

This means that any user can append their transaction to the consensus network and can't be censored per se. Now their transaction might not get included in any other branches of the tree if there is 100% censorship of that transaction, but this isn't very likely. It isn't a 51% all-or-nothing control as in Bitcoin and the conceptual reason is because a DAG tangle has multiple branches of consensus! And even if the probability of double-spend is high on a transaction that has been censored by a large % of the network (not included in their branches), the transaction still has a record in the DAG tangle and so the recipient can still accept the funds if they so choose to take that risk. In other words, the consensus network can multifurcate to route around censorship.

Having said this, the most optimum design for block scaling is not DAG tangles alone, but integrated with my ClickzSync design. And then also supporting the necessary opcodes so LN can also run on the system (because LN has the least overhead but has some drawbacks that an Iota+ClickzSync design would offer alternatives to). In other words, these 3 designs all address a slightly different aspect of the consensus scaling network optimization. The Iota design is going to need some tweaking any way, because I see some issues.

Thus I will open private discussions with the Iota team (apparently mthcl and Come-from-Beyond only?) now to see if they are interested in collaborating.

We are at a momentous point where (if I am not mistaken on the myriad of technical details) Iota+ClickzSync could radically overhaul crypto consensus network scaling, security, and TX/s. I hope they are interested to attempt it along with me if the parameters work for both of us.

I have some optimism because Come-from-Beyond is apparently programming to the Java Virtual Machine as I am as well. We seemed to have (very limited) amicable and agreeable forum discussion in the recent month or so.

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October 26, 2015, 05:50:09 PM
 #242

Thus I will open private discussions with the Iota team (apparently mthcl and Come-from-Beyond only?) now to see if they are interested in collaborating.

Contact iotatoken instead of me, please. I'm just a programmer who happened to know some stuff because of necessity to implement it in the code.
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October 26, 2015, 05:56:29 PM
 #243

Thus I will open private discussions with the Iota team (apparently mthcl and Come-from-Beyond only?) now to see if they are interested in collaborating.

Contact iotatoken instead of me, please. I'm just a programmer who happened to know some stuff because of necessity to implement it in the code.
TPTB talking with David? I wanna see this...

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October 26, 2015, 05:59:53 PM
 #244

TPTB talking with David? I wanna see this...

I'll ask David to invite you into the convo.
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October 26, 2015, 06:34:51 PM
 #245

TPTB talking with David? I wanna see this...

I'll ask David to invite you into the convo.
Wish every success to this project btw (it does not need my wishes of course, it will be a sure success).

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October 26, 2015, 06:40:25 PM
 #246

Wish every success to this project btw (it does not need my wishes of course, it will be a sure success).

Thank you, I hope we'll share it with you.
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October 26, 2015, 07:14:49 PM
 #247

Thus I will open private discussions with the Iota team (apparently mthcl and Come-from-Beyond only?) now to see if they are interested in collaborating.

Contact iotatoken instead of me, please. I'm just a programmer who happened to know some stuff because of necessity to implement it in the code.
TPTB talking with David? I wanna see this...

Okay let the idea for collaboration die on the vine. Neither of us need more drama to slow us down.

I was hoping you (Come-from-Beyond) were the only person I had to coordinate with. My guess is "David" is more of the marketing guy. Too many different personalities to harmonize with while we are trying to rush development, thus sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

Best.

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October 26, 2015, 07:34:32 PM
 #248

Thus I will open private discussions with the Iota team (apparently mthcl and Come-from-Beyond only?) now to see if they are interested in collaborating.

Contact iotatoken instead of me, please. I'm just a programmer who happened to know some stuff because of necessity to implement it in the code.
TPTB talking with David? I wanna see this...

Okay let the idea for collaboration die on the vine. Neither of us need more drama to slow us down.

I was hoping you (Come-from-Beyond) were the only person I had to coordinate with. My guess is "David" is more of the marketing guy. Too many different personalities to harmonize with while we are trying to rush development, thus sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.

Best.

Indeed, my role is management and marketing, not the code. Re: your proposal of collaboration, we have finalized the design of iota at this point and are in full development. This means that unless there is found to be some flaw in our design or your solutions would be truly revolutionary, (which would require that you have a whitepaper available within a few days) we will respectfully decline.

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October 26, 2015, 08:36:50 PM
 #249

Agreed. Best to you. Hopefully my feedback helped in some small way.

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October 26, 2015, 08:57:55 PM
 #250

I know this might have been asked but...

1) Devs/owners are you going to have a token sale (pre-sale, ICO or something)?
2) Did anyone verify the whitepaper? Can the system work as it's supposed to? (I'm not qualified enough for this...)

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October 26, 2015, 09:02:01 PM
 #251

I know this might have been asked but...

1) Devs/owners are you going to have a token sale (pre-sale, ICO or something)?
2) Did anyone verify the whitepaper? Can the system work as it's supposed to? (I'm not qualified enough for this...)


1) Yes

2) We've had some reviews and have sent it out to numerous prominent experts in the space awaiting further review. So far no one has found any flaws, which is why we felt ready to go public and let everyone review it openly.

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October 26, 2015, 09:25:28 PM
 #252

Hi, a couple of quick questions since the ICO seems to be the topic now:

How many % of the coins will the team keep?

Are you planning to prove somehow you're not "buying your own coins" from the ICO?

Is the ICO the only distribution method?
NextGenCrypto
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October 26, 2015, 09:26:52 PM
 #253

Are you planning to prove somehow you're not "buying your own coins" from the ICO?

Not possible regardless of what they tell you.  This is cryptocurrency, there is 0 validation of who is buying anything.  You know better than that.

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October 26, 2015, 09:31:19 PM
 #254

Are you planning to prove somehow you're not "buying your own coins" from the ICO?

Not possible regardless of what they tell you.  This is cryptocurrency, there is 0 validation of who is buying anything.  You know better than that.

I don't know. A lot of things have been considered impossible before, like scalable trustless electronic cash. Tongue
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October 26, 2015, 09:33:28 PM
 #255

Hi, a couple of quick questions since the ICO seems to be the topic now:

How many % of the coins will the team keep?

Are you planning to prove somehow you're not "buying your own coins" from the ICO?

Is the ICO the only distribution method?

0% of the coins go to the team. The team will be compensated via funds raised in the ICO, no pre-mine. We'll have to buy our tokens just like everyone else.

Yes

ICO is indeed the only distributon method for this project for a couple of reasons:

1) It's the only way we'll get compensated for our work and development, since we have zero premine
2) It's the only way to ensure that the tokens are actually valued, which is needed to kickstart the ecosystem that will form around them and be part of their function

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October 26, 2015, 09:35:28 PM
 #256

ICO is indeed the only distributon method for this project for a couple of reasons:

1) It's the only way we'll get compensated for our work and development, since we have zero premine
2) It's the only way to ensure that the tokens are actually valued, which is needed to kickstart the ecosystem that will form around them and be part of their function

You forgot about technical impossibility to issue coins over time.
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October 26, 2015, 09:36:03 PM
 #257


0% of the coins go to the team. The team will be compensated via funds raised in the ICO, no pre-mine. We'll have to buy our tokens just like everyone else.


ie. we will have no reason to continue working on the coin as we will not be vested in it and have already received another currency we could cash out into FIAT


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October 26, 2015, 09:43:45 PM
 #258



ie. we will have no reason to continue working on the coin as we will not be vested in it and have already received another currency we could cash out into FIAT



They will still have 90% of JINN.

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iotatoken
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October 26, 2015, 09:47:17 PM
 #259


0% of the coins go to the team. The team will be compensated via funds raised in the ICO, no pre-mine. We'll have to buy our tokens just like everyone else.


ie. we will have no reason to continue working on the coin as we will not be vested in it and have already received another currency we could cash out into FIAT



I have no problem understanding this concern, given the space that we're in (crypto is the wild wild wild west after all), but your assumption here is blatantly wrong. We chose 0% premine because that is what is the absolute most fair to every party involved. We are basing our entire start-up around IoT, which we've been working on in stealth for a year, as explained in OP this is what prompted us to develop IOTA. It is a necessary ingredient for the vision of IoT that our start-up is focused on. On top of this all of us will invest our personal funds into IOTA, so no we have a ton of incentive to make IOTA a success.

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October 26, 2015, 09:51:33 PM
 #260


0% of the coins go to the team. The team will be compensated via funds raised in the ICO, no pre-mine. We'll have to buy our tokens just like everyone else.


ie. we will have no reason to continue working on the coin as we will not be vested in it and have already received another currency we could cash out into FIAT



I have no problem understanding this concern, given the space that we're in (crypto is the wild wild wild west after all), but your assumption here is blatantly wrong. We chose 0% premine because that is what is the absolute most fair to every party involved. We are basing our entire start-up around IoT, which we've been working on in stealth for a year, as explained in OP this is what prompted us to develop IOTA. It is a necessary ingredient for the vision of IoT that our start-up is focused on. On top of this all of us will invest our personal funds into IOTA, so no we have a ton of incentive to make IOTA a success.

how is a 0% premine any more fair than you raising BTC and repaying yourself for the coins you "purchased"?  
either way you are receiving BTC and you are using BTC to buy said coins.  they're free coins for you and less BTC for development.

if you were investing personal funds, why not put that into the development and just take a premine?

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