IOTA

[kennyP]

You're treating people badly by deliberately creating uncertainty and fear.

A quote of the relevant post is required there.

It's the posts you're NOT making that I'm criticising you for. Looks like most people here believe IOTA token wont even exist if the 5% figure isn't reached, and you wont state a clear position on that. Iotatoken claims to have made 20x return for 'speculators' in IOTA, but you both said you only sold software, so it doesn't make sense to have returns for a sale of software, and you don't answer questions on that either. You let tension and fear escalate, and you don't do anything to stop it, and you're the leader of IOTA. Everybody invested in IOTA because of you, and you let David FUD those same people, and you do nothing about it. That's why I think you've made a big error here. It's your project, you're the head guy, and people want to here what you think, not David.

[Come-from-Beyond]

It's the posts your NOT making that I'm criticising you for.

I just ignore concerned trolls, too busy now to groom them.

[youyou_]

It's the posts your NOT making that I'm criticising you for.

I just ignore concerned trolls, too busy now to groom them.

I think he was talking about Ludom's posts and others who definitely are not trolls.

[illodin]

@ALL, please start to donate to the IOTA Foundation, especially the top 50 coin holders, if the Foundation is not built up, your owned coins will be shit, you can't earn any money but lost all of your investment!!!

Why they "will be shit"?

Because they will be unusable in the network strengthened and bootstrapped by the Jinn hardware processor they were sold for. And they will be unusable in the network that will be marketed using the crowdsale funds.

Purpose of the crowdsale


Development. The crowdsale funds will be used for further development and finalization of the IOTA software as well as development of the Jinn hardware processor which will strengthen and help bootstrap the network in its growing phase. Additionally funds will be used on marketing efforts to help nurture the growth of the IOTA network and  community.

Prevent hoarding whales from stifling the project. If the tokens had not been sold but instead distributed through a sign-up scheme or mining of some sort, centralization would inevitably arise and usage of sybil type strategies would cheat the system.

Kickstart the ecosystem. As these tokens exist in limited quantity and every single one of them is sold in this exclusive crowdsale, it is imperative that the people who end up with them value their utility and functionality in such a manner that they have an incentive keep them useful and valuable. This is absolutely vital for organic growth of IOTA.

[moroneroo]

Why play so many games with your suppoters cfb? Trolling your own investors is wrong, or are you trolling iotatoken now by contradicting him?

Too many people jump to conclusions without understanding the situation. I wouldn't call them "supporters".

the "tangle" is such a great idea. i hope this idea will not die out due to inability. fortunately, being an open source idea, there is the possibility that serious administrators will take the project over

[Come-from-Beyond]

I think he was talking about Ludom's posts and others who definitely are not trolls.

They were victims of trollfest avalanche effect.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Because they will be unusable in the network strengthened and bootstrapped by the Jinn hardware processor they were sold for. And they will be unusable in the network that will be marketed using the crowdsale funds.

You are wrong.

[Come-from-Beyond]

i hope this idea will not die out due to inability.

Haha, this is what a concerned troll would say. Could you provide a proof that you own iotas, please?

[Come-from-Beyond]

@moroneroo

Judging by your post history in Iota thread I put you into the group of so-called concerned trolls. You have 60 minutes to post everything you wish, after that you will be banned until you provide a proof that you own iotas. Such a proof can be a disclosure of the seed (send it to me privately), once I verify that you do own iotas your seed will be changed to one known only to you and the right to post in this thread will be returned.

[iotatoken]

@ALL, please start to donate to the IOTA Foundation, especially the top 50 coin holders, if the Foundation is not built up, your owned coins will be shit, you can't earn any money but lost all of your investment!!!

Why they "will be shit"?

Because they will be unusable in the network strengthened and bootstrapped by the Jinn hardware processor they were sold for. And they will be unusable in the network that will be marketed using the crowdsale funds.

Where do people get these ideas? Where and when have we ever said that we'd somehow exclude the original IOTA network? Never. People should really stop lying and act like adults who actually read terms of sales before they purchase something.

[iotatoken]

You're treating people badly by deliberately creating uncertainty and fear.

A quote of the relevant post is required there.

You let tension and fear escalate, and you don't do anything to stop it, and you're the leader of IOTA. Everybody invested in IOTA because of you, and you let David FUD those same people, and you do nothing about it. That's why I think you've made a big error here. It's your project, you're the head guy, and people want to here what you think, not David.

Actually that's not true at all. I am head of the project, it's my vision from which the project spawned and CfB is a developer, so CfB follows that path and of course what aligns with our hardware company. So stop acting as if CfB owes you some sort of answers, I have provided all the answers on this topic that is relevant. I know you're just a troll, but I also now that some people read troll posts like yours and take them seriously.

[domsch]

@CfB, can you explain how someone can be 20x on a purchase of software?

Like this - http://kotaku.com/holy-grail-of-rare-video-games-found-in-a-goodwill-fo-473730982 - for example.

According to http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=d1ff4369-afcc-4879-97fa-7a8afd8b3380 you have the right to resell iotas.

OTC deals escrowed by me were done at 20x+ of the original iota price.

@CfB, those links didn't restore my faith in the direction you and David seem to want to take IOTA in, but it's your project, so I wish you both well.

I believed I bought tokens for the IOTA network, and I want that network to succeed, and I believe all those who work behind the scenes deserve compensation, and I think a 5% premine is the way to achieve that. Up until a couple of days ago I believed in the direction you guys were headed.

However, things have changed in the last few days. I don't like being handcuffed to a potential outcome I can't control where the 5% target isn't met, so you and David fork IOTA, and even though I paid my 5% donation, my investment in tokens/software is worthless through no fault of my own, and, a new corporatised reboot of IOTA exists that I hold no stake in, even though I sent you bitcoins in good faith.
 

I didn't know about this condition for a 5% community donation for the foundation or you go into partnership with corporates, and it feels most definitely like a threat to me. I understand your time is valuation and needs to be respected, but I used my time to earn money that I sent off to the IOTA ICO, and I don't believe you and David respect that fact, otherwise you wouldn't be raising the possibility of there being a fork that dosn't include the original ICO investors. You're refusal to clarify that matter shows a lack of respect for the original supporters of IOTA.

What makes the situation doubly concerning is the donations are totally unnecessary, as a premine achieves the fund raising outcome we all seem to agree on perfectly well, so as I speculated, I think the reason for your preference for donations is not related to neutralizing the 'bystander effect', but more likely for some other legal reason, which is fine by me, but why wont you guys be upfront? This obfuscation of the facts, combined with David's threatening and insulting tone to supporters like myself recently is a red flag.

I can handle David insulting me and others, but I don't like his chances of navigating the path ahead for IOTA with such an overly macho and immature style. That style from a project manager doesn't work unless he's also the code guy, in which case people have to suffer in silence and put up with the BS. In David's case he'll simply be replaced by a more professional person at a later date, but by then he will have had plenty of time to poison the well with key stakeholders and partners. I've been in business for 20+ years and that's the way it works. Managers can only act like David if they're irreplaceable, and David is easily replaced, so eventually key interests will want him removed, and that's going to be messy. He wont go quietly and will try and lob grenades as he goes. His involvement from here on with IOTA makes the future less certain.

So I am selling a 1% stake in IOTA token supply for a 25x return. If CfB agrees he can act as escrow. That'll leave me with a small stake which I'll gladly donate 5% from. If anyone wants to own 1% of IOTA let me know. I don't agree with what's happening with the foundation funding from donations, but for those who feel comfortable with that, here's a chance to get on board. I know IOTA is not at 25X yet, but when it is I want to move on regardless of what happens from here.

I will buy your stake at 15x. PM me and we can do the deal.

[GetVisaCoin]

So I am selling a 1% stake in IOTA token supply for a 25x return. If CfB agrees he can act as escrow. That'll leave me with a small stake which I'll gladly donate 5% from. If anyone wants to own 1% of IOTA let me know. I don't agree with what's happening with the foundation funding from donations, but for those who feel comfortable with that, here's a chance to get on board. I know IOTA is not at 25X yet, but when it is I want to move on regardless of what happens from here.

I will buy your stake at 15x. PM me and we can do the deal.

I want 25X if the trade happens after the foundation gets funded, but 20X if the deal happens before that is known. Escrow through CfB if he agrees.

[Come-from-Beyond]

I want 25X if the trade happens after the foundation gets funded, but 20X if the deal happens before that is known. Escrow through CfB if he agrees.

If it's the sale of the whole account in the snapshot and the iotas weren't claimed then I can do that within next 72 hours.

[illodin]

@ALL, please start to donate to the IOTA Foundation, especially the top 50 coin holders, if the Foundation is not built up, your owned coins will be shit, you can't earn any money but lost all of your investment!!!

Why they "will be shit"?

Because they will be unusable in the network strengthened and bootstrapped by the Jinn hardware processor they were sold for. And they will be unusable in the network that will be marketed using the crowdsale funds.

Where and when have we ever said that we'd somehow exclude the original IOTA network? Never.

Cool. Now why didn't you say this in the first place? Your ambiguous communication has caused a lot of unnecessary drama and fud that could've all been avoided.

[l8orre]

Where do people get these ideas? Where and when have we ever said that we'd somehow exclude the original IOTA network? Never. People should really stop lying and act like adults who actually read terms of sales before they purchase something.

people are scared and concerned given this environment and these circumstances. this may be unfounded and irrational but it is not as outlandish as your rethorical questions implies.

do you feel you are being coerced or bullied if your customers want their concerns calmed?

do you consider it an outrageous abuse if your customers are insecure and scared and ask you to give them piece of mind that this will not happen?

do you blame your customers for being insecure?

the only professional action to be taken by a competent community figurehead in such a case is to post a simple one or two liner to dispel any such irrational fears. like: 'DON'T WORRY FOLKS, AINT GONNA HAPPEN!!!'

so what does it cost you to simply explicitly state that?

[achimsmile]

Wow I'm impressed.

- Cfb is our leader and trolls us invetors.
- He's hurting our feelings with posts he's NOT making.
- All iotas will be unusable if the foundation is not funded.
- I disagree so much with cfb and david that I'll sell my stake for 25x initial price.

What have you guys been smoking lately?

[iotatoken]

Where do people get these ideas? Where and when have we ever said that we'd somehow exclude the original IOTA network? Never. People should really stop lying and act like adults who actually read terms of sales before they purchase something.

people are scared and concerned given this environment and these circumstances. this may be unfounded and irrational but it is not as outlandish as your rethorical questions implies.

Being accused of 'blackmailing' when telling people that they have to test the software before we can launch is not outlandish?
Being accused of 'threatening' when informing people that we're free individuals and not slaves is not outlandish?
Being accused of 'keeping the community hostage' because... I don't even remember what insanity the guy who used this term alluded to, but it was most definitely just as outlandish.

So I completely disagree Dirk. This is indeed as outlandish as imaginable.

do you feel you are being coerced or bullied if your customers want their concerns calmed?

No, have I ever ignored customers? No. Have I ever refused to answer any question? No. In fact I have answered these concerns so many times that people are constantly asking me why I even bother wasting my time responding to the questions, which I inform them sadly is my duty, whether troll or not.

do you consider it an outrageous abuse if your customers are insecure and scared and ask you to give them piece of mind that this will not happen?

We have software purchasers as customers. ANY concerns regarding the software will always be answered expediently and honestly. One such question was precisely "When can we launch?" to which we have replied: "It's up to you as customers, either everyone tests it and launch happens fast, or we have to do all the testing ourselves which takes months". This is software development 101. This is when we were accused of blackmailing, because we won't release unfinished fintech software that hasn't been properly tested. So yes, it's outrageously stupid.

do you blame your customers for being insecure?

Insecure about what? Validity of tangle technology? So far I have not seen any concerns about that. If our customers *happen* to also be speculators who are concerned about speculator issues, then that is none of my concern. Just like it's not your car salesman's job to alleviate your concerns regarding whether the car you just bought from him will turn out to be a collectors item. We have been brutally honest about this since day 1, so anyone insinuating anything along those lines are objectively full of shit and will be treated as such. For EVERYONE who is genuine or concerned about something legit we always respond promptly, honestly and respectfully.

the only professional action to be taken by a competent community figurehead in such a case is to post a simple one or two liner to disple any such irrational fears.

so what does it cost you to simply explicitly state that?

Which I have done 100 times, to the point where the IOTA chat is filled with people asking me why I still even bother to go way beyond my duties to continue responding. I know that it's easy to think that simply stating the truth is sufficient, but as can be witnessed in this thread 100 times, that is not enough, in fact you have to write a fucking book to explain the very basics of commercial transactions, why slavery is not a good thing and the psychology of a troll just to get things moving.

[hoertest]

thats all you care about?
2 pages of constructive posts of good willing people with no response from you and thats the post you jump on in seconds?

There are no problems at the moment. Those who are interested in having Iota Foundation are donating, trolls troll, haters hate and drama queens trying to keep this thread dramatic. What is your problem?

my problem is i can't donate till i get my iotas i bought with yassins escrow. he did a great job with the speculation thread and also endorsing the foundation. i know he is waiting for your go.

if you give a fuck what i think perhaps you want to do him the favor of beeng a little more informative.

[Come-from-Beyond]

Wow I'm impressed.

- Cfb is our leader and trolls us invetors.
- He's hurting our feelings with posts he's NOT making.
- All iotas will be unusable if the foundation is not funded.
- I disagree so much with cfb and david that I'll sell my stake for 25x initial price.

What have you guys been smoking lately?

Haha, brilliant observation!