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Author Topic: [ANN][DCR] Decred - Community Governance | Bitcoin Devs | Lightning Network  (Read 1197929 times)
YourMother
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January 13, 2016, 03:33:39 AM
 #581


Usually the airdrop ensures that everyone except for the community will get the Decrepit coins.

Anyways, i've just signed up, i'm in. Let's see if i have more chances of receiving this shitcoin than to win the Powerball. I doubt it.


The absolute worst people in history, ranked by the wisdom of the crowd: "Vlad the Impaler", "Mihnea the Evil", "Ivan the Terrible" and "Evan the Instaminer".
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January 13, 2016, 06:11:41 AM
 #582

Registered and looking forward to the airdrop. Keeping my fingers crossed!

And to those who want to promote DCR in a simple way without sacrificing your signature space feel free to use my avatar.

http://imgur.com/xB61X4b
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January 13, 2016, 06:22:52 AM
 #583


Usually the airdrop ensures that everyone except for the community will get the Decrepit coins.

Anyways, i've just signed up, i'm in. Let's see if i have more chances of receiving this shitcoin than to win the Powerball. I doubt it.



Looks like the future pumpers hired the big guns to FUD this one. I'm definitely in.

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January 13, 2016, 09:20:15 AM
 #584

кaк пpaвильнo зapeгиcтpиpoвaть ccылкy?
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January 13, 2016, 11:13:04 AM
Last edit: January 13, 2016, 12:40:53 PM by rizzlarolla
 #585


I would not suggest anyone follow Bitcoin blindly, I always recommend research, as I would here. Funny how $82 can warp ones' oppinion though.



Who said Decred was worth anything?

I understand the value will be set by the market, not ones' opinion



If decred is "not worth anything", how will the devs earn a living?
(devs paid in decred will need to sell to eat I presume)

p14 (270) beyondtext
Quote
While I understand that you may feel 10% is too high a rate, as someone who has funded a lot of development work over the past 5 years, I disagree with your assessment.  At a 10% subsidy rate, the dev organization will accumulate approximately 302,000 decred during its first year.  If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work.  This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy it would mean the project cannot fund itself unless its exchange rate is well over USD 1.00 per decred.

So, as we see, Beyondtext assumes $1 average in year 1.
(presumably starting at $0.49, finishing the year at $1.50?)
That presumption allows Beyondtext to pay 3-4 devs.

If in fact the price remains at, or lower, than $0.49, that only pays maybe 2 devs or less.


p25 488 ingsoc
Quote
This begs the question though, and it's a serious one, what's the alternative for a new dev in the future? Work on Bitcoin and get paid nothing? Or work in a system where you get compensated for innovation and contributions that feed back into Bitcoin as well? I know that's biased, but

So when ingsoc says "new dev work BTC for free or work here for pay...."
maybe only 1 dev need apply! Not so ground breaking.
Edit, just noticed ingsoc does say "A new dev in future" - singular

(Also worth considering on this subject is that work will need doing, submitting, voting, implementing ect, before any payment?
My point, it will be hard for any dev to plan/live of of this. A lot of risk of project rejection? Also the DHG is not an ideal entity for payment
Edit. Also, if a lot of work is done by competing devs, but price doesn't rise, devs will go unpaid/underpaid. Equating to a massive risk dev work goes unrewarded/underrewarded when/if implemented, benefiting the "freeloader" not the dev. Same as Bitcoin?)

BTW I dont disagree with the 10% block reward to pay devs whatsoever. I quite like it.
I am just wondering the impact this will make on the project, in relation to the 4% premine c0 hold impact on the project.

The scope of the 10% dev reward block can be changed over time. The premine cannot. It gives an immediate dominance to a company/single entity.

So, if the "accepted (Beyondtext) sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 3-4 dev @ $1 average yr 1,
then c0 really has 2x return on "up front invesrment cost" = 840k
or, if the "accepted sustainable dev/price ratio" is (ie) 1-2 dev @ $0.49.
then c0 really get 1x return on up front investment cost" = 420k
So (to move on below) we need a consensus on how many devs are needed/expected/required? (I read 3-4 min? maybe not such a project if only supporting 1 dev?)
Anyway, if the price does need to be higher (than 0.49) to support the expected dev numbers, this should be clearer.

So now the PoS yr1. c0 recieve ~ 450k coin, passively, for nothing other than they started this "controlled by all" project.
That is another 2% of all decred coin produced, ever. And on it goes, year after year.(at least in the "good return" early years)
c0 claim they only want their investment back, yet are rewarded, massively, thereafter.
IMO, c0 PoS reward should be diverted to the dev fund. That would be fairer, (supporting devs more ect.) that is how this coin should be structured.

This is the usual massive profit/power model here.
Wake up people, we've seen it all before.

I could really use $80 of BTC though....






decred need to average a price of $1 in year 1, in order to pay 3-4 devs. (Behindtext)
I presume a $1.5 price at end year 1 to achieve this?

So, c0 should declare the past "work/investments" at $1.50, not $0.49, a level which will not sustain the development of this project, then c0 would receive 1/3 the coin they concider due to them, (840k decreds) = 280k decreds

And really, c0 should continue to shoulder some of the risk going on. Also show good will.
So c0 could receive maybe 240k decreds at launch, and (with PoS rewards) still be adequately rewarded/repaid.

In this scenario, at end of year 1, c0 will have receive ~ 1 million less coin than they would under current proposal.
That would probably give this coin a chance to work.

Then 600k less decreds need premining.
Also, c0's PoS awards earned on those coin will be less obscene, and create less dominance/centralisation.


No thoughts?

decred say "This means Company 0 and its developers will have put roughly USD 415,000 into the bring-up since April, 2014 and receive 4% of the total supply, 840,000 coins (at USD 0.49 per coin)"

Also decred (Behindtext) say "If we assume the value of 1 decred averages to USD 1.00 over the first year, this means we'll have USD 302K to spend on development work.  This is a small amount of funding and can pay for 3-4 full time developers for 1 year, so if we went below 10% dev subsidy (edit, read "or price was below average $1")  it would mean the project cannot fund itself"


So, this coin needs to trade at $1.50 minimum to cover cost of 3-4 devs.
But decred, calculating their investment at $0.49, are taking at least 3 times what they declare "fairly" due/invested.

Then their "free" PoS rewards are also many multiples more than "fairly" due.


Something don't add up here?
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January 13, 2016, 11:18:45 AM
 #586


Silly question, but I must ask.

Is anyone from the Neucoin project, past or present, working in, or anyway involved in decred, past or present?
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January 13, 2016, 11:28:53 AM
 #587

I have been reading a lot of critical questions about decred recently in this thread. Its good that people are discussing the coin with critical thinking and it has helped in fleshing out finer points about various aspects of decred especially the airdrop. I thank all the critics Smiley

Although i have seen lots of rehashing of same arguments despite detailed answers from the project team. I would suggest to critics that if you are not satisfied with the answers or still convinced that this could be a scam and want to inform the community about it, you can create another thread for specially this purpose and post a link in this thread. Its crowding out other discussion IMO.

Another thing i wanted to discuss is that people have been asking about utility of this coin. Its quite clearly stated in the announcement that main purpose of this coin is to test a new governance system that is more community oriented & innovate other tech that might be used in bitcoin's development. I would suggest both community and dev team to focus on testing this out for first 6 months on real blockchain of the coin instead of trying to focus on adoption/use.

I find it funny that people want the latest coin to be used widely or they are pushing for widespread use right from start. I think we should first test the coin in real world before asking people to accept it. Bitcoin was the first coin and it had to wait for 2-3 years before somewhat wider adoption & that was without any competition. Pushing for wider adoption in first year only leads to high expectation and mediocre to disastrous results in my experience. What we should be focused on in initial months is testing the tech & building required "infrasturcture" for the coin which includes

* first and foremost, support forums/IRC/slack, although i think this is already in place thanks to lot of helpful people intersted in this project.
* block explorers i.e. more than one & preferably at least one that is hosted by third party.
* mining pools including a p2pool based pool.
* exchange presence & liquidity with help of market makers in community.
* other services community members want to build around the coin.
* community members accepting decred instead of pushing other merchants to accept it. Organic growth and if project is successful others will come.

IMO there are two major use cases for any coin in its first few months

1) speculation by markets & accumulation by supporters
2) testing out the technology that is promised to the users.

For first point we should try to include some members in the community who can help with reducing the fluctuation in price which is inevitable result of speculation i.e. we should seek investors who can play market makers role.

For the second use case, in decred's case it will totally depend on the community and how much importance it gives to nuanced discussion rather than "turning up on the voting day". Its same as democracies which are supposed to run by "consent of the governed" but real question is whether governed are making a "informed decision" by engaging in discourse or not.

I would like to warn anyone who is thinking that this project is a get rich quick scheme. It could turn out to be that but there is always a risk/reward calculation involved. I am very optimistic and i believe in competence of dev team but you never know how things will turn out. I am taking my airdrop & remaining neutral, I will mine & invest more but not without weighing risk & considering any loss that might occur. As we can see that some people are not that optimistic & want others to know, that i think helps in balancing the debate for general community & keep the unwarranted enthusaism in check.

I would say to everyone who wants to bet on success of this project, that be invloved like a shareholder will be in a company, learn the technology & how it works, ask question, see for yourself how main features like voting works and then only if you think this thing can work in real world invest more. Until then keep your airdrop & enjoy. I think airdrop is great way to let people test the tech without risking any money. People want to get in early which is high risk/reward game. I would personally prefer to buy at say, 2-5x a year from now rather than risking it right now or atleast buy on dips what i can afford.

Now people are not very happy about dev's taking half of premine. I would say that it is totally fair for them to do this as they have already invested time and money. Also they are doing it by informing everyone in advance rather than a hidden premine. It makes speculation predictable, if you think they would need to dump some coins then instead of buying at market price set some low orders. If you dont trust them to keep working & dump the premine & vanish then as i said it dont buy it & open a thread to alert others.

The other point about premine that was brought up regarding the premine & staking it, i think its a legit concern. just to float ideas, i would suggest that devs put 50% of their share ie 25% of coins in a publicly viewable multi-sig address. Distribute the keys to some community members who are willing to take that responsibility along with representatives of c0/devs and put a contract, smart if possible, in place to lock it for an agreed upon time based on funding requirements for the project. This way devs will still have half of their money if needed and still they wont be undermining the voting process by having 50% share out of 66% needed for consensus.

Those are my thoughts about various discussions going on right now. I hope this will help in arriving on some solutions/understanding about these issues.

Regards

Sam Smiley
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January 13, 2016, 12:02:38 PM
 #588

hi, when will sent to e-mail second part of airdrop?

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January 13, 2016, 12:40:26 PM
Last edit: January 13, 2016, 12:50:40 PM by Ch3wbacca
 #589

hi, when will sent to e-mail second part of airdrop?

Expected this.

Dont support these fake BTT accounts, but support all those other accounts which actually are genuine.

PM me if you wish for me to advertise you
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January 13, 2016, 01:07:09 PM
 #590

66% needed for consensus.
66% = consensus Huh


BTW: Are you "Sam", the "Office Manager" of Company 0?

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January 13, 2016, 01:21:04 PM
 #591

Ready for the airdrop  Cheesy!

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January 13, 2016, 01:28:16 PM
 #592


Silly question, but I must ask.

Is anyone from the Neucoin project, past or present, working in, or anyway involved in decred, past or present?


I'm not familiar with Neucoin at all so in my case that is a definite 'no' (and I'm pretty sure that is the case for everyone).

Anyway, you can see on github exactly who has been involved so far (not counting people who have only been involved in btcsuite) by going to the people link https://github.com/orgs/decred/people
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January 13, 2016, 01:57:43 PM
 #593


Silly question, but I must ask.

Is anyone from the Neucoin project, past or present, working in, or anyway involved in decred, past or present?


I'm not familiar with Neucoin at all so in my case that is a definite 'no' (and I'm pretty sure that is the case for everyone).

Anyway, you can see on github exactly who has been involved so far (not counting people who have only been involved in btcsuite) by going to the people link https://github.com/orgs/decred/people

Yeah ok, thanks.

I'll take that to specifically include _ingsoc also.
(and decred multi-author, obviously)
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January 13, 2016, 02:16:36 PM
 #594

кaк пpaвильнo зapeгиcтpиpoвaть ccылкy?

Oтпpaвить мнe cooбщeниe нa фopyмe или, ecли вaм нyжнa пoмoщь взглянyть нa poccийcкoм yчacткe.

Yeah ok, thanks.

I'll take that to specifically include _ingsoc also.
(and decred multi-author, obviously)

No, I haven't been involved with NeuCoin. Yes, Decred currently has multiple developers that contribute to its codebase and the project itself hopes to grow into a "hacker" collective of sorts in the future. A collective like that would mean anyone interested in development can step forward and be part of that ecosystem. Nobody will be excluded from the development process if they are competent - it is multi-stakeholder. Decred's primary goal is to create that ecosystem and everyone will be working hard to try and make that happen once the code is public and open-source.

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January 13, 2016, 02:35:46 PM
 #595

Well, heres hoping my airdrop application gets approved. I will be looking into mining as well....

 
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January 13, 2016, 02:53:59 PM
 #596


No, I haven't been involved with NeuCoin. Yes, Decred currently has multiple developers that contribute to its codebase and the project itself hopes to grow into a "hacker" collective of sorts in the future. A collective like that would mean anyone interested in development can step forward and be part of that ecosystem. Nobody will be excluded from the development process if they are competent - it is multi-stakeholder. Decred's primary goal is to create that ecosystem and everyone will be working hard to try and make that happen once the code is public and open-source.

Sounds great, can't wait to get things rolling, I'll add a pool and might help with anything related.

suprnova pools - reliable mining pools - #suprnova on freenet
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January 13, 2016, 03:10:57 PM
 #597


No, I haven't been involved with NeuCoin. Yes, Decred currently has multiple developers that contribute to its codebase and the project itself hopes to grow into a "hacker" collective of sorts in the future. A collective like that would mean anyone interested in development can step forward and be part of that ecosystem. Nobody will be excluded from the development process if they are competent - it is multi-stakeholder. Decred's primary goal is to create that ecosystem and everyone will be working hard to try and make that happen once the code is public and open-source.

Sounds great, can't wait to get things rolling, I'll add a pool and might help with anything related.

Hah! suprnova is quickly becoming my new fav one stop shop for all my mining pool needs

 
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anders lokka
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January 13, 2016, 03:13:10 PM
 #598

кaк пpaвильнo зapeгиcтpиpoвaть ccылкy?

Oтпpaвить мнe cooбщeниe нa фopyмe или, ecли вaм нyжнa пoмoщь взглянyть нa poccийcкoм yчacткe.

Yeah ok, thanks.

I'll take that to specifically include _ingsoc also.
(and decred multi-author, obviously)

No, I haven't been involved with NeuCoin. Yes, Decred currently has multiple developers that contribute to its codebase and the project itself hopes to grow into a "hacker" collective of sorts in the future. A collective like that would mean anyone interested in development can step forward and be part of that ecosystem. Nobody will be excluded from the development process if they are competent - it is multi-stakeholder. Decred's primary goal is to create that ecosystem and everyone will be working hard to try and make that happen once the code is public and open-source.

Launch confirmed for January 18? Time?

I have performed the most faster yobit ico sold out in 29 Minutes.
NEW PROJECT SOON!!!
scam confirmed
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January 13, 2016, 03:19:51 PM
 #599

Launch confirmed for January 18? Time?

Please do note that the current tentative date for launch is the 25th, but this may change on the basis of testing and development.

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January 13, 2016, 03:22:27 PM
 #600

Launch confirmed for January 18? Time?

Just adding on to the reply above me, Jan 18th signifies the close of airdrop sign up. Plus there will be testnet and miner binaries released alongside miner specifications one week prior to the actual launch date of mainnet.

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