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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE  (Read 172273 times)
greyhawk
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December 12, 2012, 02:12:01 PM
 #401



I'm French and given that for years you have used some of my code (no I won't tell) without even knowing it I can patronize you, suck it up Grin

Is it the Napoleonic Code?
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MPOE-PR
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December 12, 2012, 02:13:11 PM
 #402

Given what http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php looks like and the lack of innovation there, I wouldn't bring up this subject if I were you. Plus "having" technology when most of the available tech is now open source doesn't mean much.

I'm French and given that for years you have used some of my code (no I won't tell) without even knowing it I can patronize you, suck it up Grin

I was preparing a scathing retort but then I got as far as where you listed your misfortunes and my heart broke.

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December 12, 2012, 02:31:23 PM
 #403

Given what http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php looks like and the lack of innovation there, I wouldn't bring up this subject if I were you. Plus "having" technology when most of the available tech is now open source doesn't mean much.

I'm French and given that for years you have used some of my code (no I won't tell) without even knowing it I can patronize you, suck it up Grin

I was preparing a scathing retort but then I got as far as where you listed your misfortunes and my heart broke.
Your what?

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December 12, 2012, 02:39:50 PM
 #404

I don't see what the big deal is, someone was gonna do it eventually, unless you make laws and regulations about no regulations  Wink. Nothing about bitcoin is changing, just more options for people to handle their money.  
I see what the big deal is, but I also agree that eventually someone was gonna do it.

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December 12, 2012, 10:37:47 PM
 #405

Your what?

Ahaha. My Kaaba rock.

But seriously now, I take it all back, there's nothing wrong with French tech. They invented the kiss after all, how bad can it be.

Just don't ever drive a Peugeot.

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December 12, 2012, 10:48:03 PM
 #406

The French also invented Daft Punk, so I hope this exchange can also trade it harder, better, faster, stronger!

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December 12, 2012, 10:55:15 PM
 #407

...
Just don't ever drive a Peugeot.

... in Romania

/off topic


I admire you determination Davout and will surely follow the example.

Hope we can make a similar announcement from Spain in a couple of weeks.

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December 17, 2012, 12:09:43 PM
 #408

Hm, did I read somewhere I would get my own IBAN in my Name after verifying my account?

My account is verified, but when clicking "deposit", it still gives me the "general" account info of paymium to transfer my EUR to.

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December 17, 2012, 12:54:03 PM
 #409

Hm, did I read somewhere I would get my own IBAN in my Name after verifying my account?

My account is verified, but when clicking "deposit", it still gives me the "general" account info of paymium to transfer my EUR to.
That's not available yet, it's a project that is in the pipeline on the bank's side, we have no precise ETA, but we know it should be rolled-out in a couple-of-months-ish.

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December 17, 2012, 02:03:20 PM
 #410

I will register as soon as you get the debit card Smiley
Actually, a real Bitcoin debit card (not the prepaid credit card that BitInstant calls a debit card...) would be awesome.

That is, balance is always in Bitcoins; deposit cash at an ATM to "buy" bitcoins automatically, or withdraw/spend it to "sell".

Davout, the site mentions a lack of fees to deposit MtGox codes, but I don't see any way to actually do it?
We're going towards a dual debit card, with EUR and BTC balances spendable.

Depositing MtGox codes is on our roadmap, (it's also technically developed) but we haven't rolled it out yet. We need to figure out the proper way to accept them without relying too much on MtGox. We would be in deep sh*t if we were holding a massive balance at MtGox and it suddenly went under. We will do it, but we will do it the right way, probably something along the lines of "Paymium takes the risk of a MtGox default by actually buying your code for EUR/USD when you deposit it". You see the problem ?

Possible solution for MtGox default risk:

1. Provide free MtGox code withdrawal

2. Arbitraging between MtGox and Bitcoin-Central. Since you don't need to pay transaction fee for your own part, a small price difference would cover the transaction fee or even profit

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December 18, 2012, 09:51:11 AM
 #411

Is there a thread for suggestions regarding the site? I have some:

  • Order book asks and bids could be on one page, not 2 separate pages. Own orders could be highlighted
  • Favicon could be changed to something that doesn't look like every other bitcoin-related site.
  • The market depth graph could have a text-popup displaying some info.

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December 18, 2012, 10:15:05 AM
 #412

Is there a thread for suggestions regarding the site? I have some:

  • Order book asks and bids could be on one page, not 2 separate pages. Own orders could be highlighted
  • Favicon could be changed to something that doesn't look like every other bitcoin-related site.
  • The market depth graph could have a text-popup displaying some info.
Maybe you can start one in the Service Discussion board with these interesting suggestions !

molecular
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December 18, 2012, 10:27:27 AM
 #413

Is there a thread for suggestions regarding the site? I have some:

  • Order book asks and bids could be on one page, not 2 separate pages. Own orders could be highlighted
  • Favicon could be changed to something that doesn't look like every other bitcoin-related site.
  • The market depth graph could have a text-popup displaying some info.
Maybe you can start one in the Service Discussion board with these interesting suggestions !

ok, did so: bitcoin-central.net - usability suggestions and feature requests

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molecular
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December 20, 2012, 11:03:44 AM
 #414

I have a question about the order matching algorithm.

  • I had placed an order (volume 10 BTC, price: €10.10). There was no other order in the book at that price at the time.
  • Later I saw over 90 BTC on that price.
  • The order got partly filled (5.78 BTC traded 12/20/2012 07:13)
  • Currently there are about BTC 70 on at €10.10

Now I don't know how much volume was traded at that time and price, but I'm suspecting that you handle matching of orders at the same price differently from how MagicalTux does it? Namely: distribute the volume across all orders at that price (how?) instead of filling the orders in sequence of submission. Of course it's possible that my order indeed got filled first and only 5.78 BTC have been traded @ €10.10 and someone cancelled an order (to get back down to BTC 70).

I don't know which method I find better, but it'd be nice to know how the order matching actually works.

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December 20, 2012, 12:37:13 PM
 #415

I have a question about the order matching algorithm.

  • I had placed an order (volume 10 BTC, price: €10.10). There was no other order in the book at that price at the time.
  • Later I saw over 90 BTC on that price.
  • The order got partly filled (5.78 BTC traded 12/20/2012 07:13)
  • Currently there are about BTC 70 on at €10.10

Now I don't know how much volume was traded at that time and price, but I'm suspecting that you handle matching of orders at the same price differently from how MagicalTux does it? Namely: distribute the volume across all orders at that price (how?) instead of filling the orders in sequence of submission. Of course it's possible that my order indeed got filled first and only 5.78 BTC have been traded @ €10.10 and someone cancelled an order (to get back down to BTC 70).

I don't know which method I find better, but it'd be nice to know how the order matching actually works.
I don't really know about the specifics of your particular order, but we don't distribute the volume accross orders, oldest orders should get filled first.
When we execute an order we get a collection of matching orders ordered by descending price, there is no actual constraint on the time the order was placed, but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.

Let me know if you want to have a look at the source Wink

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December 20, 2012, 12:41:16 PM
 #416

so what if I want to *change* an order?
is that possible without deleting the old order?

it should be possible to change an order, lest the new order should get a new, larger ID.
the "new" order should get a new ID *only* if the limit is changed or the size is INCREASED.


you (imvho) carefully consider and then publizise your pricing model.

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molecular
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December 20, 2012, 12:48:47 PM
 #417

I have a question about the order matching algorithm.

  • I had placed an order (volume 10 BTC, price: €10.10). There was no other order in the book at that price at the time.
  • Later I saw over 90 BTC on that price.
  • The order got partly filled (5.78 BTC traded 12/20/2012 07:13)
  • Currently there are about BTC 70 on at €10.10

Now I don't know how much volume was traded at that time and price, but I'm suspecting that you handle matching of orders at the same price differently from how MagicalTux does it? Namely: distribute the volume across all orders at that price (how?) instead of filling the orders in sequence of submission. Of course it's possible that my order indeed got filled first and only 5.78 BTC have been traded @ €10.10 and someone cancelled an order (to get back down to BTC 70).

I don't know which method I find better, but it'd be nice to know how the order matching actually works.
I don't really know about the specifics of your particular order, but we don't distribute the volume accross orders, oldest orders should get filled first.
When we execute an order we get a collection of matching orders ordered by descending price, there is no actual constraint on the time the order was placed, but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.

Let me know if you want to have a look at the source Wink

Personally I don't care much, but I think 2WeiX has a point. You should probably check the sources and publish your findings in the FAQ or somewhere on the site for sake of transparency.

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December 20, 2012, 01:27:34 PM
 #418

but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.
From my experience (and also from specifications) that's not true: if you want ordering on the primary key you have to specify it.
If you don't specify any ordering then you can receive any order is easier for the dbms, and that's usually the order in which they are stored on disk: this depends on the history of insertion/deletion on that table (or db)

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December 20, 2012, 01:50:51 PM
 #419

but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.
From my experience (and also from specifications) that's not true: if you want ordering on the primary key you have to specify it.
If you don't specify any ordering then you can receive any order is easier for the dbms, and that's usually the order in which they are stored on disk: this depends on the history of insertion/deletion on that table (or db)
Daveout, when you get at a point where you need help with your database (and if you are successful you most probably will), feel free to contact me: I own a company based in France and you would not be the first company I help with MySQL scaling problems... We don't take Bitcoins for the moment, but I hope you will help make this a viable option in the future  Smiley
In the meantime a free advice: don't use any MySQL-specific SQL in your code, for some usage patterns migrating away from MySQL can be the only sane solution. Cleaning SQL code, migrating triggers/procedures is a nightmare...

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December 20, 2012, 02:10:49 PM
 #420

so what if I want to *change* an order?
is that possible without deleting the old order?
It's not possible to change an order for a user, if you wish to do so you may cancel it and re-enter an other one.

it should be possible to change an order, lest the new order should get a new, larger ID.
That's easily achieved by cancelling it and re-entering a new one.

you (imvho) carefully consider and then publizise your pricing model.
I'm not quite sure about what you're asking. Could you be more specific ?
There are fees, these are public, and that's pretty much it.

Personally I don't care much, but I think 2WeiX has a point. You should probably check the sources and publish your findings in the FAQ or somewhere on the site for sake of transparency.
The source for Bitcoin-Central has been closed for a while now, but the trading engine code hasn't really changed, so anyone can go have a look for themselves on github Smiley

but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.
From my experience (and also from specifications) that's not true: if you want ordering on the primary key you have to specify it.
If you don't specify any ordering then you can receive any order is easier for the dbms, and that's usually the order in which they are stored on disk: this depends on the history of insertion/deletion on that table (or db)
but MySQL will still implicitly order on the primary key column which is an auto-incremented integer. In other words oldest orders should get matched first.
From my experience (and also from specifications) that's not true: if you want ordering on the primary key you have to specify it.
If you don't specify any ordering then you can receive any order is easier for the dbms, and that's usually the order in which they are stored on disk: this depends on the history of insertion/deletion on that table (or db)
When your primary key is an auto-incremented integer you have a clustered index, meaning that the data is stored on disk according to the order of the index, in this case it's the PK.
So it's always going to be easier for MySQL to return data ordered on the ID. So, oldest orders will always show first in the list since their ID will always be smaller the newer orders.
But it is true that even this behaviour is observed by experience, its not guaranteed by the RDBMS, so point taken, I'll add an explicit ID ordering Smiley

Daveout, when you get at a point where you need help with your database (and if you are successful you most probably will), feel free to contact me: I own a company based in France and you would not be the first company I help with MySQL scaling problems... We don't take Bitcoins for the moment, but I hope you will help make this a viable option in the future  Smiley
In the meantime a free advice: don't use any MySQL-specific SQL in your code, for some usage patterns migrating away from MySQL can be the only sane solution. Cleaning SQL code, migrating triggers/procedures is a nightmare...
I think I'll be fine, I spent countless hours fiddling with the InnoDB configs to tune much larger sites than Bitcoin-Central, and there's no way I'd give that kind of fun up :p
And I don't write SQL anymore, I leave that to frameworks (well, I still keep an eye on the way transactions are handled and run everything with the SERIALIZABLE isolation level).
I'm still hoping that at some point I'll have so much work that I'll have to call you Smiley

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