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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE  (Read 117109 times)
davout
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December 06, 2012, 06:02:42 PM
 #41

But seriously, good for you.
Thank you <3

So, not a bank, but a payment services provider?
We partnered with Aqoba who has been a PSP for a couple of years.
PSPs are allowed to hold fiat currency on behalf of third-parties and offer payment services, it's exactly what a bank does, minus the issuing of credit.

Will BTC accounts be insured as well? Are there plans to try and incorporate BTC-insured accounts (meaning that BTC accounts will be insured for their equivalent fiat value)?
No, Bitcoin balances are not insured, we, as a company are responsible for the BTC deposited, but there is no insurance company backing it.
But we do use cold-storage massively and extreme security paranoia.

MOTHER (bleep bleep)! This is big. Federally insured bitcoins! This will allow more risk averse users wade into bitcoin.
 I think i already know, but can a US citizen set up an account at this bank? What if I did it while I was in Europe? I have set up foreign accounts before so that I have local currency.  Why not BTC ?
It is a fiat that is insured. If someone tells you the BTCs balances are insured that should probably raise your suspicion.
US citizens can open an account with us, no problem, but as of today this announcement only covers EUR balances (which are 99.9% of our business anyway).

And i think calling this a bank is just a method to get this hyped here, im sure there are alot of restrictions a PSP has compared to a bank.
The IBAN thing looks great tho, but IBAN with just and ID scan??
What will the transfer limits be?
We said "licensed to operate as a bank" which we mean as "open accounts to third-parties and hold fiat currency on their behalf in compliance with the regulatory framework".

We don't have transfer limits. The only limits are for security purposes only and can be adjusted at will by contacting our support.

Any way you guys can get a valid security certificate? The untrusted connection error is going to hurt your business.
Our certificate is perfectly valid.

This is really cool well done guys but..... I don't like that taxpayers bail out losses. why cant a private insurance company take on this risk?
Taxpayers don't cover losses, they cover your fiat balance should the Credit Mutuel go under.

Will BTC accounts be insured as well? Are there plans to try and incorporate BTC-insured accounts (meaning that BTC accounts will be insured for their equivalent fiat value)?

BTC could and should be protected in a BTC-style such as multi-sig account
We investigate these kinds of solutions, but haven't found the perfect one yet. But I do agree that it would be easier for everyone and help reduce our security costs.

He asked because the U.S. certainly does place requirements (on banks) for its citizens getting foreign accounts. Mostly it involves getting copies of copious identity documentation and reporting end-of-year summaries to the IRS (U.S.'s tax collection agency). Are you in compliance with these laws specific to U.S. citizens?
We are not subjected to US regulations, and French/European regulations do not make provisions regarding US citizens. So on our end we're fine.
US citizens need to check whether they need to declare something to the IRS or some similar authority.
To be completely honest there is going to be a learning curve on our end too, we are new in this field and Aqoba is new to Bitcoin, so some cases we did not plan for will have to get straightened out as they occur.

- You said you are accepting corporate accounts? If so that means that we can open company accounts, get a debit/credit card for such and at the same time exchange BTC on the fly from that account?
Yes, as soon as our cards program is ready we will have no problem with that.

- You said everyone gets their own IBAN, which means a bank account. Do we also have internet banking facilities?
Yes, when this functionality is rolled out (in a couple of months) everyone will get their very own IBAN (no more pasting account references in random bank wire fields, yay!)
Internet banking will be on Bitcoin-Central.net

Also, I would like to discuss something in private with you, banking wise, can we get in touch over email?
Sure! david(at)bitcoin-central.net

We're really blown away by the positive reactions (me, and everyone at Paymium). Nothing else comes to mind than : "Thank you guys!"

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December 06, 2012, 06:03:23 PM
 #42

I will register as soon as you get the debit card Smiley

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December 06, 2012, 06:05:32 PM
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Wow.  Big news indeed.
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December 06, 2012, 06:10:04 PM
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I will register as soon as you get the debit card Smiley
Actually, a real Bitcoin debit card (not the prepaid credit card that BitInstant calls a debit card...) would be awesome.

That is, balance is always in Bitcoins; deposit cash at an ATM to "buy" bitcoins automatically, or withdraw/spend it to "sell".

Davout, the site mentions a lack of fees to deposit MtGox codes, but I don't see any way to actually do it?

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December 06, 2012, 06:14:16 PM
 #45

I will register as soon as you get the debit card Smiley
Actually, a real Bitcoin debit card (not the prepaid credit card that BitInstant calls a debit card...) would be awesome.

That is, balance is always in Bitcoins; deposit cash at an ATM to "buy" bitcoins automatically, or withdraw/spend it to "sell".

Davout, the site mentions a lack of fees to deposit MtGox codes, but I don't see any way to actually do it?
We're going towards a dual debit card, with EUR and BTC balances spendable.

Depositing MtGox codes is on our roadmap, (it's also technically developed) but we haven't rolled it out yet. We need to figure out the proper way to accept them without relying too much on MtGox. We would be in deep sh*t if we were holding a massive balance at MtGox and it suddenly went under. We will do it, but we will do it the right way, probably something along the lines of "Paymium takes the risk of a MtGox default by actually buying your code for EUR/USD when you deposit it". You see the problem ?

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December 06, 2012, 06:15:59 PM
 #46

Nothing else comes to mind than : "Thank you guys!"

No, thank you. This is biggest news of the year!

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December 06, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
 #47

Dont get me wrong, i think this is good news, considering it will make you more 'legal'.
But then im still sceptical, as you said, you have to learn alot about that P2P business and your provider has to learn about bitcoins, it will be interessting to see how that works out.
For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID scans, noone else offers this, and especially not in combination with a no-chargeback currency.
People will abuse your service like crazy to get bitcoins from ebay scams etc.
Maybe you got KYC policies in place to prevent that, but then i would openly write about it and not just say 'a normal ID will be enough to get verified'.
Because thats how MtGox does it, not ask for ID at all but they could at any moment require notarized passports etc which some people cant get or dont want to send to them.
If you are planing to do it in a similar way then i bet we get alot of angry threads after the initital hype  Undecided

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December 06, 2012, 06:33:54 PM
 #48

This is the most significant development in the btc world since it's inception. Making headlines!
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December 06, 2012, 06:34:39 PM
 #49

People will abuse your service like crazy to get bitcoins from ebay scams etc.
Abuse will happen, our job will be to adapt.
Policies are never set in stone and need to adapt to the evolution of threats.

Maybe you got KYC policies in place to prevent that, but then i would openly write about it and not just say 'a normal ID will be enough to get verified'.
Requiring an ID is already a KYC policy.

Because thats how MtGox does it, not ask for ID at all but they could at any moment require notarized passports etc which some people cant get or dont want to send to them.
If you are planing to do it in a similar way then i bet we get alot of angry threads after the initital hype  Undecided
As per our ToS we may require additionnal documentation from users if the need arises.
It is never nice to be in the position of having to submit additional documentation but it can happen.
Promising never to do it would be a lie. We can not promise that.
What we can promise is that we'll do our f**ing best for everyone to have to most pleasant experience possible.

Maybe one day we won't be needed anymore, maybe one day fiat will belong in museums. Maybe one day these regulations will be gone.
But that's something that we can only collectively make happen. And I feel that, today, we made a step in the right direction.

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December 06, 2012, 06:37:07 PM
 #50

For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID

These guys are running a BANK. I am sure they can figure it out.
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December 06, 2012, 06:39:43 PM
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For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID

These guys are running a BANK. I am sure they can figure it out.
To be precise we partnered with a licensed PSP in such a way that we are allowed to do most of what banks do.

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December 06, 2012, 06:42:39 PM
 #52

...
Maybe one day we won't be needed anymore, maybe one day fiat will belong in museums. Maybe one day these regulations will be gone.
But that's something that we can only collectively make happen. And I feel that, today, we made a step in the right direction.

Agreed!  Smiley


For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID

These guys are running a BANK. I am sure they can figure it out.

They have partnered with a PSP, which isnt exactly 'running a bank', but i still wish them luck, they will need it in any case.


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December 06, 2012, 06:43:47 PM
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Great job Smiley

Sorry it had to go...
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December 06, 2012, 06:46:42 PM
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For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID

These guys are running a BANK. I am sure they can figure it out.
To be precise we partnered with a licensed PSP in such a way that we are allowed to do most of what banks do.

The whole fact that such negotiations are underway is mind blowing step forward for the currency, no need to play it down!
Thank you for the clarification though, not too familiar with French banking regulation:)
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December 06, 2012, 06:50:17 PM
 #55

I'd love for my lawyer to get with your lawyers to let my lawyer copycat whateverthehell it was that got you that status.

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December 06, 2012, 06:51:45 PM
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This is awesome! Too bad there isn't much USD business going on yet, but that will likely change over time. All we need now is a cheap way of getting BTC here in the US (way too high fees on everything that I know of) and I won't have to carry cash across borders to avoid extortionary bank wire fees!

Seriously, charging a combined total of $60-$80 for transferring some money to Europe (about half of that in US, the other half in EU)?!?!?!

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December 06, 2012, 07:07:39 PM
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AWESOME!!!

so...um, what does this mean?

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December 06, 2012, 07:08:52 PM
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Dont get me wrong, i think this is good news, considering it will make you more 'legal'.
But then im still sceptical, as you said, you have to learn alot about that P2P business and your provider has to learn about bitcoins, it will be interessting to see how that works out.
For example, i would expect ALOT of fraud going on from your 'customers' once you do IBAN accounts with just ID scans, noone else offers this, and especially not in combination with a no-chargeback currency.
People will abuse your service like crazy to get bitcoins from ebay scams etc.
Maybe you got KYC policies in place to prevent that, but then i would openly write about it and not just say 'a normal ID will be enough to get verified'.
Because thats how MtGox does it, not ask for ID at all but they could at any moment require notarized passports etc which some people cant get or dont want to send to them.
If you are planing to do it in a similar way then i bet we get alot of angry threads after the initital hype  Undecided


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December 06, 2012, 07:09:52 PM
 #59

Makes it very hard for anyone to question the legality of bitcoin in Europe.
EDIT: Plenty of other stuff too, convenience, debit card linked to an account that can be loaded with bitcoin, think it could become like a bank account with 2 currencies and one of them is bitcoin.

­aminorex: "there are no good arguments for regulation, merely bad arguments in a good suit."
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December 06, 2012, 07:17:38 PM
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I give it two months before there are real problems between Paysius and their fiat banking partners.  It won't be their fault, of course, but this will not last.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

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