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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE  (Read 191577 times)
2weiX
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December 20, 2012, 02:29:57 PM
 #421

hi, let me specify.

coming from a stockbrokers point of view, the way how, when and in which order orders are filled is essential for a working market.

orders should be filled according to price.
orders at the same limit should be filled in the order of their timestamp, oldest first.

if one order encounters an older order on the other side of the order book, the execution price is that of the older order.
if the older order is filled completely and the younger order meets another, older order, the limit of the oldest order at the next best price will be the next execition price (etc etc).

it should be possible to change an order without it losing its timestamp.
however: if the limit of an existing order is changed or the size of the order is increased, it gets a new timestamp.

all these rules (or different ones for all i care) should be laid out in public and carefully programmed into your system to avoid disputes.
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December 20, 2012, 02:49:12 PM
 #422

coming from a stockbrokers point of view, the way how, when and in which order orders are filled is essential for a working market.
Yup, I'm really interested in feedback from people that have this kind of professionnal background.

orders should be filled according to price.
orders at the same limit should be filled in the order of their timestamp, oldest first.
Yes, that's how BC is designed to work, except for the IDs serving the purpose of timestamps. (and having the additional advantage of being absolutely unique unlike timestamps)

if one order encounters an older order on the other side of the order book, the execution price is that of the older order.
if the older order is filled completely and the younger order meets another, older order, the limit of the oldest order at the next best price will be the next execition price (etc etc).
Yep, absolutely, I don't really reason in terms of older or younger orders for that matter, I reason in terms of "which order is the one being executed, and which one is the order being executed against" but it has the exact same practical implications.

Say you post a bid with a 10 EUR limit, no asks. Nothing happens during the execution.
Someone else posts a bid @ 9.9 EUR, nothing happens since no matching orders are found during the execution.
Someone comes along and posts an ask with a 9.5 EUR limit, that's the order that's being executed, it first executes against the first bid, the trade is settled at 10 EUR/BTC, if it isn't filled it will continue execution against the other order at 9.9 EUR/BTC.
Now if it's still not filled it remains by itself in the order book.
Now say someone posts a bid with a 11 EUR/BTC limit price, then it will execute at 9.5 EUR/BTC against the only remaining ask in the order book.

If multiple orders are at the same price, the older ones get filled first.

If it doesn't work that way then it is a bug.

it should be possible to change an order without it losing its timestamp.
however: if the limit of an existing order is changed or the size of the order is increased, it gets a new timestamp.
We don't offer this feature. The way I see it is that if you change your mind about your order size you lose your spot in the queue.

all these rules (or different ones for all i care) should be laid out in public and carefully programmed into your system to avoid disputes.
The last published version of the TradeOrder class is 299 LOC long.
The code that is responsible for automatically testing it, and preventing regressions is 924 LOC long.
The code to test ratio is almost 3. Care was taken. And better, anyone can go check it out independently on github.

Hope that answers your questions Smiley

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December 20, 2012, 02:53:19 PM
 #423

Personally I don't care much, but I think 2WeiX has a point. You should probably check the sources and publish your findings in the FAQ or somewhere on the site for sake of transparency.
The source for Bitcoin-Central has been closed for a while now, but the trading engine code hasn't really changed, so anyone can go have a look for themselves on github Smiley

Thanks for putting that smiley, otherwise I'd be mad now Wink.

Again, I support what 2weiX said. I'm missing this kind of transparency on MtGox: Tell users exactly how the trade matcher works in a language everyone can understand (english maybe, not SQL/python/whatever). Telling people to go read some source that might or might not be what's currently being used on the site is not sufficient and doesn't say anything about wether or not the policies of the trade matcher will remain like that.

Apart from the details 2WeiX requested in his last post, there are other details that might be interesting, for example: Can a bot pull orders while an order (say big dump) is being executed and will the bot receive updates "on the way down" and get a chance to react or is that huge order executed atomically with noone being able to interfere?

Please, I urge you to stand out and be better than Gox in this regard. Btw: You're currently better than MtGox at customer support as far as I can tell (although it might not be indicative of what happens once you gain a larger customer base).

The trading aspect of your endeavour might not be your highest priority (I don't know), but I would really love to see you guys do it "right" from the beginning.

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December 20, 2012, 03:02:43 PM
 #424

Please, I urge you to stand out and be better than Gox in this regard. Btw: You're currently better than MtGox at customer support as far as I can tell (although it might not be indicative of what happens once you gain a larger customer base).



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December 20, 2012, 03:18:46 PM
 #425

Tell users exactly how the trade matcher works in a language everyone can understand (english maybe, not SQL/python/whatever).
Well, ask and you'll be answered.

Telling people to go read some source that might or might not be what's currently being used on the site is not sufficient and doesn't say anything about wether or not the policies of the trade matcher will remain like that.
It's still a good indication, and a good incentive for the operator to have a zero-bullshit policy Smiley

Can a bot pull orders while an order (say big dump) is being executed and will the bot receive updates "on the way down" and get a chance to react or is that huge order executed atomically with noone being able to interfere?
It will be executed atomically thanks to MySQL transactions now, and it will remain that way because I'm going to roll-out functionality that will queue everything and execute all jobs in an asynchronous fashion.

Please, I urge you to stand out and be better than Gox in this regard. Btw: You're currently better than MtGox at customer support as far as I can tell (although it might not be indicative of what happens once you gain a larger customer base).
We do as best as we can, and frankly, I think that being better at customer support is the best way to grow.
I don't really like doing it, but it still makes me a little fuzzy inside when people give you nice words for helping them without them having to wait a week.

The trading aspect of your endeavour might not be your highest priority (I don't know), but I would really love to see you guys do it "right" from the beginning.
We strive to do things right since 2010 Cheesy

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December 21, 2012, 03:34:41 AM
 #426

We don't offer this feature. The way I see it is that if you change your mind about your order size you lose your spot in the queue.

For a person manually placing trades that might matter but it is a moot point in this instance.   For those offers generated by a bot, sub-penny pricing gives a way to regain your spot in line.  

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December 25, 2012, 01:15:07 AM
 #427

Is there any way we could have a confirmation from Aqoba of this information ?

I really look forward to use extendedly your service (I'm french), but I don't really want to give my ID card just like that, I'm sure you will understand  Smiley

Btw thank you for developping a service like that, with an open API !
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December 25, 2012, 10:09:18 AM
 #428

Is there any way we could have a confirmation from Aqoba of this information ?
Yep, pick your phone up and give them a call Smiley

I really look forward to use extendedly your service (I'm french), but I don't really want to give my ID card just like that, I'm sure you will understand  Smiley
Absolutely.

Btw thank you for developping a service like that, with an open API !
Thanks! Don't hesitate to give feedback in the API thread.

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January 07, 2013, 10:11:42 AM
 #429

Hm, did I read somewhere I would get my own IBAN in my Name after verifying my account?

My account is verified, but when clicking "deposit", it still gives me the "general" account info of paymium to transfer my EUR to.
That's not available yet, it's a project that is in the pipeline on the bank's side, we have no precise ETA, but we know it should be rolled-out in a couple-of-months-ish.


Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?

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January 07, 2013, 10:24:05 AM
 #430

Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?
IBANs for accounts will be available when the technical project is complete on Aqoba's side, I'd say the ETA is a few months.
Acceptance of MtGox codes is in the works, it might be only available for deposits though.

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January 07, 2013, 10:35:11 AM
 #431

Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?
IBANs for accounts will be available when the technical project is complete on Aqoba's side, I'd say the ETA is a few months.
Acceptance of MtGox codes is in the works, it might be only available for deposits though.

When these both complete, be ready to have a huge influx of capital

Allowing mtgox code deposit and withdrawal will complete the cycle for arbitrage that will bring you higher transaction volume.

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January 07, 2013, 10:49:00 AM
 #432

IBANs for accounts will be available when the technical project is complete on Aqoba's side, I'd say the ETA is a few months.
Acceptance of MtGox codes is in the works, it might be only available for deposits though.

When these both complete, be ready to have a huge influx of capital

Allowing mtgox code deposit and withdrawal will complete the cycle for arbitrage that will bring you higher transaction volume.

Which is why it won't be allowed for withdrawals. Since MtGox don't do one of the basics of their job - timely processing of withdrawals - everyone would want to transfer their codes and cash out at Bitcoin-Central instead. This is not possible if Bitcoin-Central are not able to get their own funds out of MtGox quickly - they will run out of cash-flow.

Also, it would be like MtGox were outsourcing their withdrawals processing function to Bitcoin-Central for free. I can't see that happening.

"Remember too on every occasion which leads you to vexation to apply this principle: not that this is a misfortune, but that to bear it nobly is good fortune." - Marcus Aurelius
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January 07, 2013, 11:38:22 AM
 #433

Which is why it won't be allowed for withdrawals. Since MtGox don't do one of the basics of their job - timely processing of withdrawals - everyone would want to transfer their codes and cash out at Bitcoin-Central instead. This is not possible if Bitcoin-Central are not able to get their own funds out of MtGox quickly - they will run out of cash-flow.

Also, it would be like MtGox were outsourcing their withdrawals processing function to Bitcoin-Central for free. I can't see that happening.
The main issues with the whole MtGox code thing is that MtGox is not financially licensed in any way I know of. It makes the taxation status of these codes unclear, it also requires us to come up with a reasonable and safe way to fit them in our accounting.

The second issue is that we need to be 100% full-reserve, each user must have the same balance displayed by Bitcoin-Central as the EUR balance that's actually on his sub-account inside the Paymium account. That means that we'll actually need to front the money until mtgox pays us.

There is obviously demand, rolling out the feature out is easy, (it's been in the code for weeks). Rolling out the feature properly is non-trivial Smiley

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January 07, 2013, 01:39:07 PM
 #434

Do you have plans to provide your own bcEUR-Codes?

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February 22, 2013, 07:25:30 PM
 #435

TIME - PRICE - PRIORITY


I enter an order to sell 200 @ 24.9€
Someone else enters an order to sell 10 @ 24.9€

HIS order is ABOVE mine in the order book, so I assume HIS order gets matched first WHEN IT SHOULD NOT BE.
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February 24, 2013, 12:16:52 AM
 #436

Quote
Each account will in a few months get its very own IBAN number, users will be able to use it as any other bank account, have their salaries and pensions sent there and have them automatically converted to Bitcoin if they so wish

Just curious... what will it take to make this happen in the US?
How do you get a bank to automatically convert your savings to bitcoins?
Are there any plans for one in the US?
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February 24, 2013, 12:38:22 AM
 #437


Just curious... what will it take to make this happen in the US?
How do you get a bank to automatically convert your savings to bitcoins?
Are there any plans for one in the US?


Some banks allow you to buy bitcoin now in their branches. Why not ask them if they will convert your savings as well? Its for sure USD is not going to regain its value.

Edit: Mike Maloney has some things to say about money history in the U.S.
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February 26, 2013, 02:13:49 PM
 #438

Hm, did I read somewhere I would get my own IBAN in my Name after verifying my account?

My account is verified, but when clicking "deposit", it still gives me the "general" account info of paymium to transfer my EUR to.
That's not available yet, it's a project that is in the pipeline on the bank's side, we have no precise ETA, but we know it should be rolled-out in a couple-of-months-ish.


Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?
Regarding the Euro bank account is there a way in which, with my ID details already in Paymium's possession, I could have an Aqoba account set up within days so I have a Euro account from which I can send Euro SEPA transfers unrelated to Bitcoin Central; then when the linkup goes ahead, that both accounts be linked?

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February 26, 2013, 09:10:40 PM
 #439

Hm, did I read somewhere I would get my own IBAN in my Name after verifying my account?

My account is verified, but when clicking "deposit", it still gives me the "general" account info of paymium to transfer my EUR to.
That's not available yet, it's a project that is in the pipeline on the bank's side, we have no precise ETA, but we know it should be rolled-out in a couple-of-months-ish.


Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?
Regarding the Euro bank account is there a way in which, with my ID details already in Paymium's possession, I could have an Aqoba account set up within days so I have a Euro account from which I can send Euro SEPA transfers unrelated to Bitcoin Central; then when the linkup goes ahead, that both accounts be linked?
Aqoba is simply acting as a partner realizing the segregation of funds between Paymium's funds and the customers deposits. Unlike many other exchanges, Bitcoin-central (and paytunia) offers the same protection to depositors as any other payment institution. Your bitcoin-central account or paytunia account is a full fledged payment account (soon to be linked to a debit card and a unique IBAN number).

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February 26, 2013, 09:39:09 PM
 #440


... it's a project that is in the pipeline on the bank's side, we have no precise ETA, but we know it should be rolled-out in a couple-of-months-ish.

Any news for the IBAN and acceptance of MtGox code as deposit/withdrawal method?
Regarding the Euro bank account is there a way in which, with my ID details already in Paymium's possession, I could have an Aqoba account set up within days so I have a Euro account from which I can send Euro SEPA transfers unrelated to Bitcoin Central; then when the linkup goes ahead, that both accounts be linked?
Aqoba is simply acting as a partner realizing the segregation of funds between Paymium's funds and the customers deposits. Unlike many other exchanges, Bitcoin-central (and paytunia) offers the same protection to depositors as any other payment institution. Your bitcoin-central account or paytunia account is a full fledged payment account (soon to be linked to a debit card and a unique IBAN number).
Thank you Boussac for the clarification.  If I have understood this right, even if I were able to open a personal Aqoba account it is not one I would subsequently be able to link to my Bitcoin Central account.  So if I need a Euro account for SEPA transfers sooner than this service goes live I am going to need to go elsewhere.

Thanks for the Fortuneo tip ghdp.  I will explore that as an option but maybe try some of the European banks in London too, even if it's just for language's sake.

Please disregard Litecoin and Zcash badges to the left. I have just gathered they are an April fool's joke!
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