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Author Topic: Bitcoin-Central, first exchange licensed to operate with a bank. This is HUGE  (Read 168746 times)
notme
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December 11, 2012, 01:11:06 AM
 #381

No one here is asking for that.

Maybe not overtly or knowingly, but they are undoubtedly paving the way for it.
Just as much as Satoshi paved the way for Bitcoin regulation by inventing Bitcoin.

Do you realize that your detractors have been achieving their core goals, right?  No matter what you do, it will not directly affect them (or me), yet each moment you spend responding to them delays your progress.  They are winning, whether or not they are correct.  While I, personally, don't agree that one bitcoin based business making agreements with establishment institutions in Europe has any great effect upon Bitcoin as a whole; I also don't view such a developement as automaticly a positive one.  Furthermore, I don't believe that you will actually be permitted to succeed.  If such a development actually is a net positive for Bitcoin, you will be undermined to your final bankruptcy at least.  If such a development survives six months, I will take that to mean that it's a net negative for Bitcoin, and avoid you like the plague.

Where can I buy tinfoil hats with bitcoin?

https://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf
While no idea is perfect, some ideas are useful.
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marcus_of_augustus
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December 11, 2012, 01:28:47 AM
 #382

Quote
Where can I buy tinfoil goldfoil hats with bitcoin?

Good question, maybe you got yourself a start-up right there.

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December 11, 2012, 01:44:39 AM
 #383


Fiat is regulated : fact.
Bitcoin is not : fact.

Bitcoin exchanges are by definition an interface between these worlds, so I fail to see how it comes as a big surprise to anyone that in order to be sustainable in this business an exchange has to be licensed for the fiat-handling part.

BINGO!!!! Perfectly said!

The interfaces that link with the old rails will have to follow the old rail rules. If they don't, they'll be shut down, and then there won't be links with the old rails, and Bitcoin will be far weaker and less useful.
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December 11, 2012, 01:52:35 AM
 #384


So TCP/IP needed to get approval from the "regulators" before it was widely adopted?

Then the bitcoin protocol may not be all it is cracked up to be .... if  Erik Vorhees is correct that bitcoin needs the crutch of state approval in order to get widely adopted, then I would say it is deficient as a technology and not fit for purpose .... bring on bitcoin2.0. (Holy Trinity should be nimble for the crypto-currency 2G will be life threatening for them.)



You do a disservice to everyone when you characterize my argument so poorly.

Bitcoin does not "need the crutch of state approval" in order to get widely adopted. And I'm not advocating that bitcoin get state anything.

But those companies which interface Bitcoin with the old world of money will simply be shut down if they do not comply. You understand this? Not every bitcoin company needs to run out and get licensing, but those which are explicitly handling fiat money and fiat accounts must absolutely comply, else they'll be destroyed the moment they try to scale into anything meaningful.

Bitcoin companies that deal with fiat are different than bitcoin itself. The former must follow the rules or be closed (this is a fact, sad though it may be). The latter, Bitcoin itself, doesn't have to care at all about regulation, because it transcends it.

Do you see the difference?
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December 11, 2012, 01:58:07 AM
 #385

No one here is asking for that.

Maybe not overtly or knowingly, but they are undoubtedly paving the way for it.
Just as much as Satoshi paved the way for Bitcoin regulation by inventing Bitcoin.

As far as I know, Satoshi was not in the habit of asking permission from "authorities" before writing software .... you, on the other hand, appear to be.

That's because Davout is writing software that interfaces with the old world of fiat. If Satoshi opened an exchange, you can bet your ass he'd need to get registered or licensed by some dismal government, else the exchange would be gone.

Plug into the crappy old rails, and you need to deal with the crap. That Bitcoin itself is clean and beautiful, and doesn't itself touch the old rails, doesn't mean the various on-ramps and off-ramps that connect to it can ignore reality.
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December 11, 2012, 06:57:45 AM
 #386

As far as I know, Satoshi was not in the habit of asking permission from "authorities" before writing software .... you, on the other hand, appear to be.
Permission was neither asked, nor granted.
There's really nothing to allow or forbid about Bitcoin.

There are, however, quite a few rules to handling fiat currency on behalf of third parties without getting in trouble.

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December 11, 2012, 08:38:10 AM
 #387

... and then there won't be links with the old rails, and Bitcoin will be far weaker and less useful.
Arguments?

I don't think bitcoin will be weaker and less useful. Just the opposite. The less effective is the interface between bitcoin and fiat money the faster will be bitcoin adoption and transition to new monetary system! Which transition is best for the society? The avalanche style transition or slowly melting glacier? My take on this is that sometimes you have to make a revolutionary change if you want to succeed. Sometimes evolution just gives you less chances to succeed and at the end will be much more expensive for the society. Wasn't it better to let banks fail in 2008?

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December 11, 2012, 09:00:22 AM
 #388

... and then there won't be links with the old rails, and Bitcoin will be far weaker and less useful.
Arguments?

I don't think bitcoin will be weaker and less useful. Just the opposite. The less effective is the interface between bitcoin and fiat money the faster will be bitcoin adoption and transition to new monetary system! Which transition is best for the society? The avalanche style transition or slowly melting glacier? My take on this is that sometimes you have to make a revolutionary change if you want to succeed. Sometimes evolution just gives you less chances to succeed and at the end will be much more expensive for the society. Wasn't it better to let banks fail in 2008?

Different people are going to do different things.  Adjust.  The end is still the same, is it not?  Let them spin their wheels, and you just do your best to roll with the punches that they attract.  And let them do the same when your actions attract the wrong kind of attention.  You are not their keeper, nor are they yours.  This argument is futile.

"The powers of financial capitalism had another far-reaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent meetings and conferences. The apex of the systems was to be the Bank for International Settlements in Basel, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the world's central banks which were themselves private corporations. Each central bank...sought to dominate its government by its ability to control Treasury loans, to manipulate foreign exchanges, to influence the level of economic activity in the country, and to influence cooperative politicians by subsequent economic rewards in the business world."

- Carroll Quigley, CFR member, mentor to Bill Clinton, from 'Tragedy And Hope'
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December 11, 2012, 09:08:29 AM
 #389

My take on this is that sometimes you have to make a revolutionary change if you want to succeed.
True, I made mine, have fun, make yours Smiley

Different people are going to do different things.  Adjust.  The end is still the same, is it not?  Let them spin their wheels, and you just do your best to roll with the punches that they attract. And let them do the same when your actions attract the wrong kind of attention.  You are not their keeper, nor are they yours.  This argument is futile.
Yup

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December 11, 2012, 09:48:23 AM
 #390

My take on this is that sometimes you have to make a revolutionary change if you want to succeed.
True, I made mine, have fun, make yours Smiley
Déjà vu. Smiley

I'm just returning from where you're going to and I'm having fun. This is good we both have fun. Good luck entering the world of 'real' bankers and telling other people this is a revolutionary change.

I know that pressure against all 'classic' bitcoin exchanges from local authorities is increasing and will further increase. So, I can't really blame you. Just make sure you're really capable of looking at bitcoin-central from a banker's point of view. Make no mistake; it's a cat and mouse game.


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December 11, 2012, 09:50:50 AM
 #391

My take on this is that sometimes you have to make a revolutionary change if you want to succeed.
True, I made mine, have fun, make yours Smiley

Good answer. This is a disturbingly recurring theme on these forums. In here, in the thread about jgarzig, and in countless other threads, people keep posting from the safety of their bitmines why other people are not running their revolution for them. It's like they're playing a video game. "Press X to start revolution".


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December 11, 2012, 10:08:52 AM
 #392

This is a disturbingly recurring theme on these forums.
You're disturbingly recurring on every forum I post. Take a break!

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December 11, 2012, 10:14:25 AM
 #393

This is a disturbingly recurring theme on these forums.
You're disturbingly recurring on every forum I post. Take a break!

Your attempts to regulate my freedom of expression have been noted and added to your list of crimes against humanity. We advice you to decide on a wall of your choice to stand against in due time, good sir. *presses X*


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December 11, 2012, 10:37:41 AM
 #394

We advice you to decide on a wall of your choice to stand against in due time, good sir. *presses X*
You should have pressed 'Y' or 'Z'. The 'X' was my TV channel. Wife and kids get nervous without TV.

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December 11, 2012, 01:28:15 PM
 #395

I don't see what the big deal is, someone was gonna do it eventually, unless you make laws and regulations about no regulations  Wink. Nothing about bitcoin is changing, just more options for people to handle their money. 

 

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December 11, 2012, 01:29:21 PM
 #396

While I, personally, don't agree that one bitcoin based business making agreements with establishment institutions in Europe has any great effect upon Bitcoin as a whole; I also don't view such a developement as automaticly a positive one.  Furthermore, I don't believe that you will actually be permitted to succeed.  If such a development actually is a net positive for Bitcoin, you will be undermined to your final bankruptcy at least.  If such a development survives six months, I will take that to mean that it's a net negative for Bitcoin, and avoid you like the plague.

I can certainly see the "you won't be allowed to succeed" angle, but isn't your reasoning as explained faulty? "If I find five dollars at the bottom of my soup bowl I will take it as a miracle and believe in God but if I don't it's clear proof God is upset with me" sort of thing?

Bitcoin companies that deal with fiat are different than bitcoin itself.

I think this entire "television set is different from television network and they're both different from television" concept is very difficult for some readers.

This is a disturbingly recurring theme on these forums.
You're disturbingly recurring on every forum I post. Take a break!

Your attempts to regulate my freedom of expression have been noted and added to your list of crimes against humanity. We advice you to decide on a wall of your choice to stand against in due time, good sir. *presses X*

Press X for "you try and fuck with greyhawk, I lol".

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December 12, 2012, 02:21:39 AM
 #397

Looking at the "Step 1 - Identification documents" page...

So, how do we know this isn't a scam to collect images of people's drivers' licenses/passports for purposes of making fake IDs...  Just playing Devil's Advocate here...   Smiley

(P.S.  It's "asymmetric," not "ass-ymmetric".)

If all the sovereign non-cryptocurrencies will eventually collapse from hyperinflation, you can't afford *not* to invest in Bitcoin...  See my blog at http://minetopics.blogspot.com/ .

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December 12, 2012, 08:29:29 AM
 #398

Looking at the "Step 1 - Identification documents" page...

So, how do we know this isn't a scam to collect images of people's drivers' licenses/passports for purposes of making fake IDs...  Just playing Devil's Advocate here...   Smiley

(P.S.  It's "asymmetric," not "ass-ymmetric".)

Cause they're French. They don't have the technology.

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December 12, 2012, 11:38:26 AM
 #399

Looking at the "Step 1 - Identification documents" page...

So, how do we know this isn't a scam to collect images of people's drivers' licenses/passports for purposes of making fake IDs...  Just playing Devil's Advocate here...   Smiley

(P.S.  It's "asymmetric," not "ass-ymmetric".)

Cause they're French. They don't have the technology.

Grass in, shit out. All you really need, biological calculation.

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December 12, 2012, 12:46:24 PM
 #400

Cause they're French. They don't have the technology.
Given what http://polimedia.us/bitcoin/mpex.php looks like and the lack of innovation there, I wouldn't bring up this subject if I were you. Plus "having" technology when most of the available tech is now open source doesn't mean much.

I'm French and given that for years you have used some of my code (no I won't tell) without even knowing it I can patronize you, suck it up Grin

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