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Author Topic: [BitFunder] Asset Exchange Marketplace + Rewritable Options Trading  (Read 129234 times)
pascal257
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October 08, 2013, 10:21:58 PM
 #821

As a non US citizen in a country that will discover bitcoin in about 10 years or so, I offer my services to be a proxy for US citizens portfolios. Smiley

Before doing that, I would advice you to read the SEC regulations:
http://www.sec.gov/rules/interp/33-7516.htm

What you suggest doing isnt any less illegal than what bitfunder and btcst where doing, no matter your nationality,  and if bitfunder doesnt take any reasonabl action to prevent you providing a proxy, they will be just as liable again as well.
The SEC can go fuck themselves as far as any non-US citizen is concerned.
pedrog
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October 08, 2013, 10:22:33 PM
 #822

As a non US citizen in a country that will discover bitcoin in about 10 years or so, I offer my services to be a proxy for US citizens portfolios. Smiley


hmmm, you might have something there... there's always a way to buck the system.

Yes, I'm serious, no need for panic sells, just find non-US people and they can manage your portfolio, bitcoin doesn't care were you're from, we can still send you the profits.

Daytrading will be very difficult, but for the medium/long term investments, there's no problem.

I know I have no reputation here, but if someone wants to take a chance, I offer my "services".

As a non US citizen in a country that will discover bitcoin in about 10 years or so, I offer my services to be a proxy for US citizens portfolios. Smiley

Before doing that, I would advice you to read the SEC regulations:
http://www.sec.gov/rules/interp/33-7516.htm

What you suggest doing isnt any less illegal than what bitfunder and btcst where doing, no matter you nationality,  and if bitfunder doesnt take any reasonably action to prevent you providing a proxy, they will be just as liable again as well.

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

pedrog
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October 08, 2013, 10:26:53 PM
 #823

Are prices inevitably going to take a major hit here?  Will non-US residents be liquidating too just to buy back cheaper?

Well, I was seriously thinking liquidating, and I should have done it as soon as I saw this message, my Total Estimated Value is falling by the minute at this point I could have doubled my shares.

Puppet
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October 08, 2013, 10:27:13 PM
 #824

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

The burden of proof lies with the exchange, not the SEC. The exchange (or asset issuer) would have to prove they take measures against selling to US customers, directly or through a proxy. What you are suggesting would make it impossible for them to prove that. That may or may not get the exchange of the hook, it sure as hell wont get you off the hook. But perhaps you have a better legal team than bitfunder and dont mind taking on the SEC ?
knybe
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October 08, 2013, 10:35:55 PM
 #825

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

The burden of proof lies with the exchange, not the SEC. The exchange (or asset issuer) would have to prove they take measures against selling to US customers, directly or through a proxy. What you are suggesting would make it impossible for them to prove that. That may or may not get the exchange of the hook, it sure as hell wont get you off the hook. But perhaps you have a better legal team than bitfunder and dont mind taking on the SEC ?


You're getting too caught up in nerd-town-by-the-book dementia.

Who's to say I can't transfer my shares to a trusted non-usa BF account holder and go from there? '

It's not like I, or the other party, have to disclose what we're up to.
pedrog
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October 08, 2013, 10:37:43 PM
 #826

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

The burden of proof lies with the exchange, not the SEC. The exchange (or asset issuer) would have to prove they take measures against selling to US customers, directly or through a proxy. What you are suggesting would make it impossible for them to prove that. That may or may not get the exchange of the hook, it sure as hell wont get you off the hook. But perhaps you have a better legal team than bitfunder and dont mind taking on the SEC ?

It will be impossible for other than me and the person with who I'm working with to know that.

I just buy shares, sell shares and collect dividends, when the coins arrive in my wallet what I do with them is my business...

There's no burden of proof, I'm already making my verification with WeExchange.

knybe
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October 08, 2013, 10:38:45 PM
 #827

what's hilarious about this whole thing is:

in the SEC's effort to protect US citizens from "illegal securities," they've gone ahead and fucked those whom may or may not have had a substantial amount of their resources in these securities.

Capital Controls at it's finest keeping the money trickling up.
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October 08, 2013, 10:50:38 PM
 #828

I just buy shares, sell shares and collect dividends,

Have you read that link? Clearly not.
You might be able to hide your activity from the SEC, but I wouldnt bet any money on that unless you only deal with people you already know.

So just so you know, it IS illegal, and you would be betting on not getting caught.
btceic
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October 08, 2013, 10:53:02 PM
 #829

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

The burden of proof lies with the exchange, not the SEC. The exchange (or asset issuer) would have to prove they take measures against selling to US customers, directly or through a proxy. What you are suggesting would make it impossible for them to prove that. That may or may not get the exchange of the hook, it sure as hell wont get you off the hook. But perhaps you have a better legal team than bitfunder and dont mind taking on the SEC ?

It will be impossible for other than me and the person with who I'm working with to know that.

I just buy shares, sell shares and collect dividends, when the coins arrive in my wallet what I do with them is my business...

There's no burden of proof, I'm already making my verification with WeExchange.

This is almost exactly how DPR got caught.

♫ This situation, which side are you on? Are you getting out? Are you dropping bombs? Have you heard of diplomatic resolve? ♫ How To Run A Cheap Full Bitcoin Node For $19 A Year ♫ If I knew where it was, I would take you there. There’s much more than this. ♫ Track Your Bitcoins Value
pedrog
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October 08, 2013, 10:55:41 PM
 #830

I just buy shares, sell shares and collect dividends,

Have you read that link? Clearly not.
You might be able to hide your activity from the SEC, but I wouldnt bet any money on that unless you only deal with people you already know.

So just so you know, it IS illegal, and you would be betting on not getting caught.

I don't care:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2077808/Black-Panther-murderer-George-Wright-remain-free-Portugal-rejects-extradition-request.html

I'm aware of that, again, bitcoin will make the process of proving that impossible, using an anonymous way of communication and a mixer.

The burden of proof lies with the exchange, not the SEC. The exchange (or asset issuer) would have to prove they take measures against selling to US customers, directly or through a proxy. What you are suggesting would make it impossible for them to prove that. That may or may not get the exchange of the hook, it sure as hell wont get you off the hook. But perhaps you have a better legal team than bitfunder and dont mind taking on the SEC ?

It will be impossible for other than me and the person with who I'm working with to know that.

I just buy shares, sell shares and collect dividends, when the coins arrive in my wallet what I do with them is my business...

There's no burden of proof, I'm already making my verification with WeExchange.

This is almost exactly how DPR got caught.

So true! (LOL)

ffssixtynine
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October 08, 2013, 11:05:16 PM
 #831

Ukyo: Now more than ever WeExchange could do with supporting editing of personal details and deletion of accounts (subject to wallet being empty etc).

2weiX
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October 08, 2013, 11:09:46 PM
 #832

UKYO GET THE FUCK ONLINE AND TAKE CARE OF OPEN SUPPORT TICKETS
btceic
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October 08, 2013, 11:10:50 PM
 #833

Ukyo: Now more than ever WeExchange could do with supporting editing of personal details and deletion of accounts (subject to wallet being empty etc).



I would suspect that his/their lawyer(s) advised them not to do such a thing.

♫ This situation, which side are you on? Are you getting out? Are you dropping bombs? Have you heard of diplomatic resolve? ♫ How To Run A Cheap Full Bitcoin Node For $19 A Year ♫ If I knew where it was, I would take you there. There’s much more than this. ♫ Track Your Bitcoins Value
bigbeninlondon
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October 08, 2013, 11:33:45 PM
 #834

I'm out.  Call it a panic sell if you wish, once the SEC Eye is pointed this direction I wash my hands of it.
ffssixtynine
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October 09, 2013, 12:09:21 AM
 #835

I would suspect that his/their lawyer(s) advised them not to do such a thing.

They can keep unedited data for as long as they may be required to for legal reasons, but as a user I would like to be able to edit the data I'd put in or delete my account for my own security. It wasn't a problem before since little data was required.
BKM
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October 09, 2013, 12:13:25 AM
 #836

It is egregious that all open trades were not cancelled for this announcement.

In the future - if there is one for Bitfunder, announce this by broadcast email to the users and cancel all open trades.

VolanicEruptor
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October 09, 2013, 12:15:21 AM
 #837

I am the only one here who experiences problems with BF loading times?  Sometimes it stalls right out and I have to CTRL-ALT-DLT.  This is why I stayed away from BF in the first place, and now I'm stuck with it..

ffssixtynine
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October 09, 2013, 12:16:52 AM
 #838

I am the only one here who experiences problems with BF loading times?  Sometimes it stalls right out and I have to CTRL-ALT-DLT.  This is why I stayed away from BF in the first place, and now I'm stuck with it..

Go to Settings and disable Displayed Charts.
VolanicEruptor
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October 09, 2013, 12:20:38 AM
 #839

I am the only one here who experiences problems with BF loading times?  Sometimes it stalls right out and I have to CTRL-ALT-DLT.  This is why I stayed away from BF in the first place, and now I'm stuck with it..

Go to Settings and disable Displayed Charts.


OMG thank you for saving me from the nightmare.  I feel sorry for the other users who have never discovered that you can turn this shit-switch off.

edit: nevermind, its still happening.. "window has stopped responding due to long running script"

Ukyo needs to fix this kind of shit if he's going to run the whole show now..  

fran2k
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October 09, 2013, 12:51:17 AM
 #840

It is egregious that all open trades were not cancelled for this announcement.

In the future - if there is one for Bitfunder, announce this by broadcast email to the users and cancel all open trades.

Totally agree.
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