🌟🎲🌟 MoneyPot.com

[allinbox]

A couple weeks ago I asked mp to allow people to withdraw with higher transaction fees. (They always charged 100 bits and paid 100 bits)
It did'nt take long and they came up with an option to send with 200 bits and 300 bits.
And if you picked one they did send it with the fee you've chosen.

I don't think I need to explain the reasons for sending with higher fees...

I'm not sure when it happend but they decided to change it again, and send your transactions with calculated fees per kb, but leaving the options to send with 200 or 300 bits.
Also they send with medium priority, resulting in people waiting hours or longer for their withdrawels.

I asked a couple times to change that and got relinked to ryans post where he was approving its ok to send with calculated fee, but taking FIXED fee for withdrawels.
Actually this isnt what they do, since u can chose 300 bits...

Btw. ryan charges 300 bits and also pays 300 bits for every withdrawel from bustabit.

I'm missing the "we consider the 100 bits more as a free donation" hint.

I'm aware of the transactions with many inputs that could cost mp more, but this is not the problem of their users.
Maybe that's just my opinion but this is how you get unhappy users/customers to save a few fucking cents.

But if we calculate this for couple thousand transactions it might give a nice amount, 100 bits on top from the idiots who send with 300 bits and I'll call that low level scam.

I really liked the moneypotguys, at least the ones I know a bit, but it seems they lost interest in making this to something successfull.
All I see now is by far too long maintenances and IMO stupid changes without info onsite for what or why.
Sure it's your biz and u can do what u want, but so can I ...

Anyways bad trust for u ...

I'm fine with removing it, when u remove your low level scam...

btw. No I'm no common kid who lost 10 cents and start bitching right after, so don't even start with it (;


Example:



I'm pretty sure that yahoo and me was one of the people, that caused you to offer different fees for withdrawels and we hoped we would do something good for the players and your biz.
But I did not want to help you to stupidly scam dust from people. I dont know how else to call that...

[RHavar]

Btw. ryan charges 300 bits and also pays 300 bits for every withdrawel from bustabit.

Actually I don't. I *always* charge 300 bits, but use bitcoin core to estimate how much fees to apply, so that it confirms as fast as possible. Sometimes it requires that I pay less than 300 bits, and sometimes it requires I pay more than 300 bits -- but that's irrelevant for the person making the withdrawal.

The issue here seems to be not that MoneyPot has dynamic fees (That's the correct thing to do) but rather that they're paying too low fees, and people aren't getting their withdraw in a timely fashion. I guess my question to them would be "What are you targetting?"

In bustabit, I'm using bitcoin cores 0.12.1 estimation (which is a 95% chance of confirming within 2 blocks) although in practice >99% of all withdrawals confirm in the next block that has transactions.

[DarkDays]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.  

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

[DarkDays]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.  

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

What if we take 300 bits, and the fee ends up being 3000?  Do we go after the user for that as well? 

It's a 2 way street.  We sometimes profit (a negligible amount), and sometimes we lose.  This version is much simpler, fluctuates with the blockchain, and the user only has to pay the fixed fee regardless of what it actually happens to be (bigger or smaller).

If you take 300 bits as the fee, you should send the payment with 300 bits as the fee.  It's so simple.  Why would you do anything else?  If you give the user the option to choose how much they want to pay...out of THEIR MONEY...as a fee, just send the payment using that as the fee.  You should never be profiting off of your users in this way, that's horrible.

[Quickseller]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.   

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

What if we take 300 bits, and the fee ends up being 3000?  Do we go after the user for that as well? 

It's a 2 way street.  We sometimes profit (a negligible amount), and sometimes we lose.  This version is much simpler, fluctuates with the blockchain, and the user only has to pay the fixed fee regardless of what it actually happens to be (bigger or smaller).

If you take 300 bits as the fee, you should send the payment with 300 bits as the fee.  It's so simple.  Why would you do anything else?  If you give the user the option to choose how much they want to pay...out of THEIR MONEY...as a fee, just send the payment using that as the fee.  You should never be profiting off of your users in this way, that's horrible.

That is not how it works. If MP were to take 300 bits as a fee, and include a 300 bit fee, they could potentially take a very large number of inputs, and use them to fund your withdrawal - this would result in your withdrawal transaction taking several blocks to confirm verses if only one input was used. It is also possible that the mempool is almost empty, and could include a transaction fee of 50 bits that results in the transaction confirming the very next block.

It is also possible that MP could contract with several of the major mining pools, never attach any transaction fee to their withdrawal transactions, yet their withdrawal transactions would almost always confirm within 1-2 blocks (they would most likely pay to get their transactions confirmed separately). For the super paranoid, it is also possible that MP charges you 300 bits on your withdrawal, contract with several mining pools, then receive a 100 bit refund from the pool that confirms the transaction (I do not think they are doing this).

I am not sure how the various transaction fees are described on the withdrawal page, however IMO they should be described that a withdrawal transaction that is estimated to be confirmed within 1-2 blocks will cost 300 bits, a withdrawal transaction that is estimated to be confirmed within 3-4 blocks will cost 200 bits, and so on. MP can charge amounts that they feel is most appropriate, and they might want to charge their prices occasionally depending on the long term costs of getting transactions confirmed. 

[CrazyCraig]

For those concerned. We are in the processing of implementing a lower tx fee 50 bits for transactions that are not high priority. This has been on my todo list for sometime but other things have taken precedent. I will do my best to get this out in a timely manner.

[DarkDays]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.   

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

What if we take 300 bits, and the fee ends up being 3000?  Do we go after the user for that as well? 

It's a 2 way street.  We sometimes profit (a negligible amount), and sometimes we lose.  This version is much simpler, fluctuates with the blockchain, and the user only has to pay the fixed fee regardless of what it actually happens to be (bigger or smaller).

If you take 300 bits as the fee, you should send the payment with 300 bits as the fee.  It's so simple.  Why would you do anything else?  If you give the user the option to choose how much they want to pay...out of THEIR MONEY...as a fee, just send the payment using that as the fee.  You should never be profiting off of your users in this way, that's horrible.

That is not how it works.

It's exactly how it should work.  If I say "take 300 bits out of my withdraw and use it to sent it", they should take exactly 300 bits and use it for the fees.  If it takes longer than a block, that's on me. 

[ranlo]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.   

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

What if we take 300 bits, and the fee ends up being 3000?  Do we go after the user for that as well? 

It's a 2 way street.  We sometimes profit (a negligible amount), and sometimes we lose.  This version is much simpler, fluctuates with the blockchain, and the user only has to pay the fixed fee regardless of what it actually happens to be (bigger or smaller).

If you take 300 bits as the fee, you should send the payment with 300 bits as the fee.  It's so simple.  Why would you do anything else?  If you give the user the option to choose how much they want to pay...out of THEIR MONEY...as a fee, just send the payment using that as the fee.  You should never be profiting off of your users in this way, that's horrible.

That is not how it works.

It's exactly how it should work.  If I say "take 300 bits out of my withdraw and use it to sent it", they should take exactly 300 bits and use it for the fees.  If it takes longer than a block, that's on me. 

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

[Quickseller]

You're more than free to voice your opinion (I don't think it really warrants negative trust however). 

The issue at hand has been explained multiple times.  I don't believe I can find a new way to put it that will be to your satisfaction, but I just want to stress again that it is not setup for us to profit.

I do admit that we have fallen behind on schedule, but by no means are we losing focus or effort (I've been dedicating the majority of my waking hours to Moneypot).

We are here to build a long lasting product and service in the cryptocurrency space.   

If you give the user the option to choose how much to take from their withdraw to use on fees, you need to make sure that you use that money on fees. 

What if we take 300 bits, and the fee ends up being 3000?  Do we go after the user for that as well? 

It's a 2 way street.  We sometimes profit (a negligible amount), and sometimes we lose.  This version is much simpler, fluctuates with the blockchain, and the user only has to pay the fixed fee regardless of what it actually happens to be (bigger or smaller).

If you take 300 bits as the fee, you should send the payment with 300 bits as the fee.  It's so simple.  Why would you do anything else?  If you give the user the option to choose how much they want to pay...out of THEIR MONEY...as a fee, just send the payment using that as the fee.  You should never be profiting off of your users in this way, that's horrible.

That is not how it works.

It's exactly how it should work.  If I say "take 300 bits out of my withdraw and use it to sent it", they should take exactly 300 bits and use it for the fees.  If it takes longer than a block, that's on me. 

You clearly do not understand how Bitcoin works. I would suggest taking some time about how transaction fees works prior to complaining about what services pay for your withdrawal transactions in the future.

[DarkDays]

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

[ranlo]

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

Considering we do manually set the fees and you are unwilling to look at the Bitcoin source code for confirmation of how it works, here's a more broken down version (in pure English): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

[DarkDays]

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

Considering we do manually set the fees and you are unwilling to look at the Bitcoin source code for confirmation of how it works, here's a more broken down version (in pure English): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

I'm saying that I can send a transaction with any exact fee I'd like.  I can send .01BTC with a fee of .01BTC.  If I can do this, why can't a gambling site do this?

[ranlo]

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

Considering we do manually set the fees and you are unwilling to look at the Bitcoin source code for confirmation of how it works, here's a more broken down version (in pure English): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

I'm saying that I can send a transaction with any exact fee I'd like.  I can send .01BTC with a fee of .01BTC.  If I can do this, why can't a gambling site do this?

How exactly are you crafting the transaction using CLI? I've Googled. I've asked. I've explored. I've looked at all the documentation. Nothing talks about how to send with an exact amount -- only x per kb. Please elaborate since nobody else appears to know how.

[Quickseller]

Based on many people I've spoken to, it doesn't appear that this is possible. BTC fees are based on transaction size and nothing else. The client lets you pick your fee per kb. The issue is you don't know how many kb you're using (or bytes) until after it's been created. Look at the Bitcoin Core code yourself for further verification, since you don't want to believe anyone else.

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

Considering we do manually set the fees and you are unwilling to look at the Bitcoin source code for confirmation of how it works, here's a more broken down version (in pure English): https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees

I'm saying that I can send a transaction with any exact fee I'd like.  I can send .01BTC with a fee of .01BTC.  If I can do this, why can't a gambling site do this?

How exactly are you crafting the transaction using CLI? I've Googled. I've asked. I've explored. I've looked at all the documentation. Nothing talks about how to send with an exact amount -- only x per kb. Please elaborate since nobody else appears to know how.

you can use bitcoin-cli createrawtransaction

I would note that it is ill-advisable to do what DarkDays is asking -- you will almost certainly end up spending a lot more money 'his' way, and it will probably create a much worse customer experience.

[Michail1]

I still can't believe how many of these babies are crying about the TX fee.

These are the type of people that KNOW what the fee is and bitch about it afterwards.  If you don't like that fee, then don't withdraw or even deposit to begin with.  How on Earth can you be crying about 11cents.  If you're really that poor, then you shouldn't be gambling or investing in a gambling site to begin with.  Get over it.  Stop being pussies about spending 11cent.

For the prior people that have complained, please give me your bitcoin address and I will personally cover your 'losses' in tx fees.  (Note:  I don't even own any part of the site.)  OMG, these whiny children are amazing.

Also, for any of you kids that complain to any television station about having to pay Shipping/Handling fees on items you purchased (knowing full well what the cost was when you bought it) and find out the actual shipping was far less than you paid, I will double all your tx fee losses.  

I just hope I can afford all that bitcoin.

(yes, give me a list of your txs so that the fees can be calculated)

[ranlo]

As requested, I am tracking weekly return for anyone that's curious. Note that this assumes you did not ever divest over that period.

//All Returns Are Calculated at the Same Time Each Week//

Week of 08/19/2016: -1.31%

[Lanzador]

I still can't believe how many of these babies are crying about the TX fee.

These are the type of people that KNOW what the fee is and bitch about it afterwards.  If you don't like that fee, then don't withdraw or even deposit to begin with.  How on Earth can you be crying about 11cents.  If you're really that poor, then you shouldn't be gambling or investing in a gambling site to begin with.  Get over it.  Stop being pussies about spending 11cent.

For the prior people that have complained, please give me your bitcoin address and I will personally cover your 'losses' in tx fees.  (Note:  I don't even own any part of the site.)  OMG, these whiny children are amazing.

Also, for any of you kids that complain to any television station about having to pay Shipping/Handling fees on items you purchased (knowing full well what the cost was when you bought it) and find out the actual shipping was far less than you paid, I will double all your tx fee losses.  

I just hope I can afford all that bitcoin.

(yes, give me a list of your txs so that the fees can be calculated)

Yeah, seriously .0003 btc vs .0001 btc, that's a difference of what? 12 cents. If you don't like it, go suck PayPal's dick and let them bleed you dry with the $0.35 minimum fee + a percentage

[dooglus]

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

It is of course possible to create a transaction with any amount of fee that you want it to have. The raw transaction RPC interface of Bitcoin Core will let you do it, for example.

The point that you are missing is that you (the person requesting a withdrawal) don't know how big (in bytes) the transaction is going to be, since you don't know what UTXOs are in the sending wallet or how the coin selection is done. So you don't know what an appropriate fee would be.

All you know is how urgently you want the withdrawal to confirm.

So you specify the urgency, and the site sets the fee accordingly, based on how congested the blockchain currently is, based on the size of the transaction, based on the size of the mempool, and so on. Sometimes the fee included will be more than you pay and sometimes is will be less. On average it should balance out. The experience for the user is better that way - he pays 300 bits and gets a quick confirmation whether the blockchain is busy or not, and whether the site's wallet is mostly composed of dust outputs or not.

[DarkDays]

Are you saying that you believe that there is no way for you to manually set your fee when you send bitcoin?  Would you like to wager on this?

It is of course possible to create a transaction with any amount of fee that you want it to have.

Thanks for killing my action.

My only issue is that if I say "send my transaction paying 300 bits for the fee" and you send the transaction with 240 bits for the fee, that rubs me the wrong way.  Even if the transaction gets confirmed in the next block.  It's the appearance of impropriety.  Even if 240 was all it took, and even if sometimes you charge me 300 and you spend 500, if I say "use 300", you should be using 300. 

It seems to me that a better way of doing it would be to say "do you want this medium priority or high priority" and showing the average fees each option takes, and then deducting the exact amount of the fees you pay (as directed by the customer) from the withdraw.

[BlockChainLottery]

...

Thanks for killing my action.

My only issue is that if I say "send my transaction paying 300 bits for the fee" and you send the transaction with 240 bits for the fee, that rubs me the wrong way.  Even if the transaction gets confirmed in the next block.  It's the appearance of impropriety.  Even if 240 was all it took, and even if sometimes you charge me 300 and you spend 500, if I say "use 300", you should be using 300.  

It seems to me that a better way of doing it would be to say "do you want this medium priority or high priority" and showing the average fees each option takes, and then deducting the exact amount of the fees you pay (as directed by the customer) from the withdraw.

It's not about that. MoneyPot is using a flat rate, because they have to bundle inputs for a transaction. Sometimes a transaction consists of just one input, which doesn't cost much, fee wise. Sometimes it consists of many small inputs, what would result in a very large fee. In that case you are still only paying the flat rate fee.

So over all the transactoins that MoneyPot processes, it averages out to about that flat fee. It's a win/win for both MoneyPot and it's costumers. Because the transactions with a lot of small inputs can be a big pain in the ass sometimes. It just gives the best user experience. Most of the time it is already included in the next block, so it is a good system. For the times it isn't included in the next block, you have to wait a bit more. Even with a higher fee, you have no guarantees.

Btw, people complained about this before. That's understandable, because the way they handle this, was not mentioned anywhere. Now you can read it on the 'Send' tab. It is just a implementation choice. And the best one in my opinion.