Motosport General discussion tread --- Formula1, MotoGP, WTCC, ETCC, DTM.....

[coinlocket$]

Another win for Bagnaia.
Second place for Martina and 3rd for Bastianini.
Now the Italia is 1st alone in the leaderboard with an advantage of 5 points.
4th position again for Marquez.

Race was in a dry track, they managed to avoid the rain.
Martin was ahead but Bagnaia overtook him with a better management of the race.

[Republikcoin.com]

I'm wondering, if Marc could do a better start, could he compete with Pecco and Martin because it seems that the GP24 is just much stronger than other bikes including GP23.

For this season, it seems that it will be quite difficult for Marquez to compete with Pecco and Martin who both use the GP24 bike, while Marquez is still using the GP23 bike with the latest update. But it will be a different story next season where Marquez will also use the same bike as Pecco so that it could make it easier for Marquez to compete on the track, especially since there are three current Ducati riders who will move to other teams next season. So for a fiercer competition between Marquez and Pecco, it might still happen next season even though this season is still very open.

[tokeweed]

As for Red Bull's future, it's gonna be sketchy without Newey and with the new power unit manufacturer.  Ford Motors is it?  That's a new entry in F1...  So it's gonna be hard.  I expect Verstappen to leave after his contract expires on 2028.

Indeed. They are likely to drop from being number one team. They have already done so actually.    Newey is one of the best engineers F1 has ever had. The team that has him must be very confident about the future.

Yeah, it is going to be Ford manufacturing new engine for Red Bull as of 2026. It is always difficult to predict what a new brand in this sport can do. But let's hope they do a good work.

When it comes to Verstappen, probably it can happen. It all depends on how strong Red Bull will be. Whenever Verstappen fails in winning a title then I expect him to think of leaving seriously.

Yup...  But like the other great teams before it, their dominance will wane and it'll be their turn to play catch up.  And if Horner leaves, it's gonna be sooo hard for them.  But it is what it is.  Lol.

Anyway, race weekend is upon us and it's gonna be in Verstappen's home turf.    I'm thinking the other drivers will be extra motivated for this not to be a win for Verstsppen.  

2024 F1 Dutch GP Schedule
Track:  Circuit Zandvoort



Aug 23:  Practice 1  12:30 - 13:30
Aug 23:  Practice 2  16:00 - 17:00
Aug 24:  Practice 3  11:30 - 12:30
Aug 24:  Qualifying  15:00 - 16:00
Aug 25:  Race  15:00

[Webetcoins]

The fact that in the next few seasons Newey will be gone for sure, Max may leave, and Horner could be kicked because of allegations, I feel like Red Bull could be a middle of the pack team in a few seasons. Dropping from being the most dominant performance ever in history to a middle pack team all within 5 seasons is a huge huge deal.

Like yeah Mercedes isn't great now, but they can be considered either third or at the worst case fourth, I would say third is fair for right at this moment, I know that Ferrari has more points but recently Mercedes has done better. But they did dominate for 7 seasons, that seems like a long time, Red Bull didn't get that much, they dominated for 2 years, and won 2 titles, may win a third this year, may even lose it and that's why I think their future looks bleak and terrible. They need to figure something out and figure that out very quickly, otherwise they are going to have so much more problems and won't really recover at all.

I think the best thing to do right now would be find a great engineer first, because losing Newey is already guaranteed, Max and Horner is the later discussion because they are not leaving just yet, they can think of that when it comes to that.

[Distraction]

Anyway, race weekend is upon us and it's gonna be in Verstappen's home turf.    I'm thinking the other drivers will be extra motivated for this not to be a win for Verstsppen.  

2024 F1 Dutch GP Schedule
Track:  Circuit Zandvoort



Aug 23:  Practice 1  12:30 - 13:30
Aug 23:  Practice 2  16:00 - 17:00
Aug 24:  Practice 3  11:30 - 12:30
Aug 24:  Qualifying  15:00 - 16:00
Aug 25:  Race  15:00

Yeah, it is time for some talk about the upcoming race...    It is indeed a very important race for Verstappen. He couldn't win in the last 4 race weeks. I can imagine how frustrated Verstappen is about that. He doesn't care about Red Bull's success anymore. He is only focused on his own achievements. But whenever Red Bull doesn't give him an unproblematic car, he gets more furious.

Here in this Grand Prix, I doubt Verstappen win once again. I'm once again favouring McLaren drivers for a win here. I would like it to be Norris to catch up with Verstappen more. I was really disappointed with Norris' not being able to make use of this situation effectively in these past 4 races. The point gap could have been much less. 

[coinlocket$]

We got a race this weekend and according to rumos Ferrari will probably bring the last update of the car and if they will be still behind they will focus on next year car.

Weather is variable this weekend, rain is expected for Saturday almost certainly according to websites.


As always for me, heavy rain
Max> LAndo

Light rain
Mclaren> RBR

[FanEagle]

I believe that Red Bull still has a good way into their future with Max, and while Newey not being there could be terrible, and Ford is a new engine which may not be awesome for them right away in 2026, as long as they keep Max they should be fine.

And it's hard for another team to pay Max what Red Bull is paying him, so I think it is not going to be possible for another team to get him, Max would have to take a significant pay cut to make that work, which I do not think that he would be willing to do. It would have to be a terrible car, and the dominant team have to offer him a big contract for all this to happen and him leave for that team.

I think he will stay, and I think they won't have a dominant car, but he will still have enough car for him to be trying to win it all, even if another team has a better car, if it is not too much better and just a bit better then Max could still win, he is that good. Right now we can say that Mclaren could even be better.

[retreat]

-snip-

Mercedes and maybe other teams are willing and able to pay Max more than what RB is offering, but the question is whether Max wants to leave RB? because so far he is still confident and fully trusts the RB team even when several important figures leave RB and there is a decline in performance, but that does not make Max try to leave RB.

And moreover there is no guarantee that the Ford power unit will be worse than the Honda one in the RB, it is possible that Ford develops a competitive engine that suits the RB and that still makes them very competitive at the top.

[tokeweed]

Anyway, race weekend is upon us and it's gonna be in Verstappen's home turf.    I'm thinking the other drivers will be extra motivated for this not to be a win for Verstsppen.  

2024 F1 Dutch GP Schedule
Track:  Circuit Zandvoort



Aug 23:  Practice 1  12:30 - 13:30
Aug 23:  Practice 2  16:00 - 17:00
Aug 24:  Practice 3  11:30 - 12:30
Aug 24:  Qualifying  15:00 - 16:00
Aug 25:  Race  15:00

Yeah, it is time for some talk about the upcoming race...    It is indeed a very important race for Verstappen. He couldn't win in the last 4 race weeks. I can imagine how frustrated Verstappen is about that. He doesn't care about Red Bull's success anymore. He is only focused on his own achievements. But whenever Red Bull doesn't give him an unproblematic car, he gets more furious.

Here in this Grand Prix, I doubt Verstappen win once again. I'm once again favouring McLaren drivers for a win here. I would like it to be Norris to catch up with Verstappen more. I was really disappointed with Norris' not being able to make use of this situation effectively in these past 4 races. The point gap could have been much less. 

Pre free practices and quali, the books still have Verstappen as the slight favorite at 2.75 followed by Norris at 2.85 then Piastri at 6.00...  And Hamilton at 9.50?  Hmmm...  I'm starting to think both Piastri and Hamilton are both value in this spot.  And I'm also starting to think Piastri is slightly starting to gain more pace than Norris is.  But we'll see.

Piastri to get pole is at 5.00...  Wish he sand bags and it goes up after a couple of free practices. 

[Koal-84]

Another win for Bagnaia.
Second place for Martina and 3rd for Bastianini.
Now the Italia is 1st alone in the leaderboard with an advantage of 5 points.
4th position again for Marquez.

Race was in a dry track, they managed to avoid the rain.
Martin was ahead but Bagnaia overtook him with a better management of the race.

As you write Bagnaia won both races in Spielberg, but Martin made the best of it and always kept the gap short, a lot can still happen in this championship this year.

But the race itself was a bit boring, it was clear in advance that Ducati would win in Spielberg in dry conditions, but otherwise it was very boring, now there's a week's break and then it continues in Aragón, where it will definitely be more exciting.

[Distraction]

Pre free practices and quali, the books still have Verstappen as the slight favorite at 2.75 followed by Norris at 2.85 then Piastri at 6.00...  And Hamilton at 9.50?  Hmmm...  I'm starting to think both Piastri and Hamilton are both value in this spot.  And I'm also starting to think Piastri is slightly starting to gain more pace than Norris is.  But we'll see.

Piastri to get pole is at 5.00...  Wish he sand bags and it goes up after a couple of free practices. 

First it was Norris being favoured for the win by the same odds. But now I see it has passed to Verstappen.    It is really likely to be a close race just as the expectations. 9.50 for Hamilton is really attracting, I'll give you that. He has been on the rise recently. Mercedes has made a huge progress in such a short time and I hope Hamilton doesn't regret leaving. 

I don't know about Piastri to take pole position. He has 0 pole in the season so far. This doesn't mean it is impossible but still... Worth a try I guess. He is really competitive against Norris and this helps McLaren a lot in points.

[coinlocket$]

Peter Bono Bonnington will not follow Lewis Hamilton in Ferrari after he got a promotion in Mercedes.
After many years Hamilton will have a new race engineer.
Bono was the "head" of Hamilton for 12 years and now the two will separate.

Speculation are for Riccardo Adami as new engineer for Hamilton since he also will separate from his driver, Sainz.

[Republikcoin.com]

As you write Bagnaia won both races in Spielberg, but Martin made the best of it and always kept the gap short, a lot can still happen in this championship this year.

But the race itself was a bit boring, it was clear in advance that Ducati would win in Spielberg in dry conditions, but otherwise it was very boring, now there's a week's break and then it continues in Aragón, where it will definitely be more exciting.

Aragon is a circuit that Marquez really likes and he is also a home rider and has had a fierce rivalry with Bagnaia when he was still with the Honda factory. But for this season it seems that it will also be a bit fierce because Marquez has used a Ducati engine even though the version is not the same as Bagnaia's, but I also agree with what you said that the race could be more intense and not boring like what happened in Spielberg Austria this season.

[coinlocket$]

A new drama in F1.
With the summer the rumors multiplied about Red Bull that would have used an Asymmetric Braking System that is not allowed according the rule, until the GP of China.
FIA back on days denied it saying they never found such as dispositive.

But now we have the big part.
FIA on 31st of July published a new rule saying that the braking system must be designed in a way that when you break the force used on both left and right side must be equal, adding any system that can produce an asymmetric brake torque is prohibited.

So why making a new rule in mid of the season if none was using it? right?

Since then Redbull has lost his advantage, they are still on top but others are close.

[Velvet78]

After this new rule about asymmetric braking system, I'm really curious about how the balances will change as of the upcoming race.    It is going to affect a few top teams directly such as Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren because of using this system so far. But the thing is, how much will this change affect them? Will we see a big performance loss at some corners?

I feel like McLaren will still stay as the fastest team on Zandvoort this weekend. Verstappen will surely do his best in his home GP but his car hasn't been fast enough to win a race for quite a while... 

[tokeweed]

Peter Bono Bonnington will not follow Lewis Hamilton in Ferrari after he got a promotion in Mercedes.
After many years Hamilton will have a new race engineer.
Bono was the "head" of Hamilton for 12 years and now the two will separate.

Speculation are for Riccardo Adami as new engineer for Hamilton since he also will separate from his driver, Sainz.

It was already known that Bono won't the moment Hamilton signed the contract at Ferrari as there was some kind of anti poaching rule in F1 or something... 

So yeah, does this description fit Ricciardo Adami..?  There were words swirling around that Hamilton called up Vettel and asked about Ferrari's engineers and engineering team as it looks like he'll have the same head engineer as Vettel had during his time in Ferrari. 

[retreat]

After this new rule about asymmetric braking system, I'm really curious about how the balances will change as of the upcoming race.    It is going to affect a few top teams directly such as Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren because of using this system so far. But the thing is, how much will this change affect them? Will we see a big performance loss at some corners?
-snip-

This news may sound bad for RB team since they have to adjust their braking system, but according to one of their engineers, this has no effect on their performance, and there is nothing to worry about, since RB still has Max who is already very good with his car. And I also think it makes sense since this is just an adjustment to the braking system, not something that is very crucial to their performance.

[coinlocket$]

After this new rule about asymmetric braking system, I'm really curious about how the balances will change as of the upcoming race.    It is going to affect a few top teams directly such as Mercedes, Red Bull and McLaren because of using this system so far. But the thing is, how much will this change affect them? Will we see a big performance loss at some corners?

I feel like McLaren will still stay as the fastest team on Zandvoort this weekend. Verstappen will surely do his best in his home GP but his car hasn't been fast enough to win a race for quite a while... 

The changed has been already required after the GP of China, only the new rule is official right now.

Before this change:

RBR got
5/5 Poleposition 100% of them all
4/5 Woms 80% of them all

After the change they got

3/9 Poleposition 30% of them all
3/9 Wins 30% of them all

So yeah this could be the secret of RBR. was it legal ? That is the big question.

[FanEagle]

A new drama in F1.
With the summer the rumors multiplied about Red Bull that would have used an Asymmetric Braking System that is not allowed according the rule, until the GP of China.
FIA back on days denied it saying they never found such as dispositive.

But now we have the big part.
FIA on 31st of July published a new rule saying that the braking system must be designed in a way that when you break the force used on both left and right side must be equal, adding any system that can produce an asymmetric brake torque is prohibited.

So why making a new rule in mid of the season if none was using it? right?

Since then Redbull has lost his advantage, they are still on top but others are close.

I feel like while there is a potential that Red Bull may have used it and they may have done something against the rules, even if they didn't, this doesn't mean that the rule can't be put in place. Like if they did something that is questionable, or even if did nothing wrong but a new thing arises, FIA could put in new rules to make sure that nobody tries something funny.

The logic is that back in the day there were many tricks to play, and that meant that if FIA never specified any rule, other teams would do what they were suspicious of other teams were doing, so if you think Red Bull does X, and you do not do it, even if Red Bull doesn't do X, you start to do it to "level the playing field", so that is why FIA would put in the rule before anyone does it.

Once again, this doesn't mean Red Bull didn't do it, it just means that FIA putting a rule here doesn't equal to Red Bull doing it, FIA has no incentive to protect Red Bull, they can punish them without consequences.

[coinlocket$]

heavy rain today, so far the faster lap is for Norris.
The track is now improving so the time will go down.

The only news for one is for Jack Doohan who will take the Alpine in 2025.
He is the soon of the 5 time motoGP wold Champion, Mick Doohan.