[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[PuertoLibre]

I still want him to videotape a discussion with his lawyer for our enjoyment.

That would be awesome... Imagine something like this:http://youtu.be/NmFo-LKHGY0 (poof it's gone)
He clould use this to make a case: http://youtu.be/clKi92j6eLE (chewbaka defense)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-1pmmajr2Q

[SgtSpike]

They did - it was in the first set of pictures they released showcasing the PCB.

Pictures:  http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

We made the decision to go with QFN in December. I can't really talk about our development process itself, but we have gone through extensive design and testing phases... at one point in early December we decided to look at a worst case scenario if the chips were in a really hot environment (you can see the bubbled chip in one of the pictures, I think someone pointed it out.).

That makes no sense. Those photos were released in October and the worst-case scenario testing supposedly wasn't until December.

Perhaps Josh can clarify, but I took his statement to mean they did their own self-testing as soon as they received the chips (which caused the bulging), then passed the design along for simulated testing in December.  I think he misworded it, so that's my read "as he meant to say it".

[mobodick]

They did - it was in the first set of pictures they released showcasing the PCB.

Pictures:  http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

We made the decision to go with QFN in December. I can't really talk about our development process itself, but we have gone through extensive design and testing phases... at one point in early December we decided to look at a worst case scenario if the chips were in a really hot environment (you can see the bubbled chip in one of the pictures, I think someone pointed it out.).

That makes no sense. Those photos were released in October and the worst-case scenario testing supposedly wasn't until December.

Perhaps Josh can clarify, but I took his statement to mean they did their own self-testing as soon as they received the chips (which caused the bulging), then passed the design along for simulated testing in December.  I think he misworded it, so that's my read "as he meant to say it".

Then they would have known then that there will be severe delays untill they get the design ready.
Any date after them knowing they had a design flaw would be bogus untill they had a working design in their hands.
Only after testing the new package could they give the go ahead for mass production.

[SgtSpike]

They did - it was in the first set of pictures they released showcasing the PCB.

Pictures:  http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

We made the decision to go with QFN in December. I can't really talk about our development process itself, but we have gone through extensive design and testing phases... at one point in early December we decided to look at a worst case scenario if the chips were in a really hot environment (you can see the bubbled chip in one of the pictures, I think someone pointed it out.).

That makes no sense. Those photos were released in October and the worst-case scenario testing supposedly wasn't until December.

Perhaps Josh can clarify, but I took his statement to mean they did their own self-testing as soon as they received the chips (which caused the bulging), then passed the design along for simulated testing in December.  I think he misworded it, so that's my read "as he meant to say it".

Then they would have known then that there will be severe delays untill they get the design ready.
Any date after them knowing they had a design flaw would be bogus untill they had a working design in their hands.
Only after testing the new package could they give the go ahead for mass production.

They didn't think it would result in a severe delay to start - they thought they could redesign the PCB layout to prevent the overheating.  So, no, I don't think it's safe to say that they would have known that there would be severe delays - they thought they could quick-fix it, and announced the next release date accordingly.  Once they figured out that the quick fix wouldn't work, they passed it along to a design firm, who confirmed their initial findings, at which point they decided to go with flip-chip.

EDIT:  It's kind of like they kept announcing best-case scenario dates after each setback.  So after the first setback, they attempted to redesign the PCB and said it would be ready mid-November.  When that didn't work, they did more tinkering and sent it off to a design firm in December, saying it would be ready mid-December (the PCB's wouldn't take long to produce once they had a design that worked).  That still didn't work, so they changed to flip-chip saying that it would be ready mid January.  The ASIC designers were taking longer than usual to switch over to flip-chip because of the style of payment (only paid upon receipt of working device), so now they aren't ready until the end of January.

[smoothie]

Companies don't like to show off their failures, so they would (understandably) want to be light on details.

Not if they burn other peoples money!

Bingo!

That is why there is secrecy. Nothing being said right now is a secret to an engineer with experience.

Only the absolute dumbest people would believe that BS line.

[My joke of an imagination is written below:)
(BFL Engineer: OH SHIT!
Josh: What?
BFL Engineer: Our plastic covered ASIC just blew up with a puff of smoke!
Josh: Wait, what? Why did that happen?
BFL Engineer: Apparently plastic does not conduct as much heat as silicon?
Josh: No Shit sherlock. Ahh SHIT.... Now I have to go make some shit up and downplay this.
BFL Engineer: No wait, don't tell them anything. Our competition might find out about plastic not being a good choice we made when overclocking our chips from 40GH to 60GH. How could I possibly have known that? SHIT, do you think bASIC and Avalon and ASICMINER possibly know that?!
Josh: No man, they have too little experience in physics. I will just have to write up a delay, but I don't know what to say...
BFL Engineer: Well Shit, tell them something! Clock buffer! It was the Clock Buffer. (thats also bad...he whispers silently to himself)
Josh: What is a clock buffer?
BFL Engineer: Hold on let me get my text book. Here it is....etc.
Josh: Okay, don't worry about it, I will (re)spin this shit so we can ship in the next three months. They are too stupid to know that any retard knows this stuff. Our customers are the best!
BFL Engineer/Josh: Laugh about it over a cold bear next to a burnt and smokey ASIC.)

+1.5TH/s

ROFL! Funniest shit ever! Sounds pretty close to what happened behind closed doors. Love the ending!

[Syke]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

[smoothie]

They did - it was in the first set of pictures they released showcasing the PCB.

Pictures:  http://bitcoinmagazine.com/butterfly-labs-releases-more-asic-photos/

We made the decision to go with QFN in December. I can't really talk about our development process itself, but we have gone through extensive design and testing phases... at one point in early December we decided to look at a worst case scenario if the chips were in a really hot environment (you can see the bubbled chip in one of the pictures, I think someone pointed it out.).

That makes no sense. Those photos were released in October and the worst-case scenario testing supposedly wasn't until December.

Perhaps Josh can clarify, but I took his statement to mean they did their own self-testing as soon as they received the chips (which caused the bulging), then passed the design along for simulated testing in December.  I think he misworded it, so that's my read "as he meant to say it".

Then they would have known then that there will be severe delays untill they get the design ready.
Any date after them knowing they had a design flaw would be bogus untill they had a working design in their hands.
Only after testing the new package could they give the go ahead for mass production.

They didn't think it would result in a severe delay to start - they thought they could redesign the PCB layout to prevent the overheating.  So, no, I don't think it's safe to say that they would have known that there would be severe delays - they thought they could quick-fix it, and announced the next release date accordingly.  Once they figured out that the quick fix wouldn't work, they passed it along to a design firm, who confirmed their initial findings, at which point they decided to go with flip-chip.

EDIT:  It's kind of like they kept announcing best-case scenario dates after each setback.  So after the first setback, they attempted to redesign the PCB and said it would be ready mid-November.  When that didn't work, they did more tinkering and sent it off to a design firm in December, saying it would be ready mid-December (the PCB's wouldn't take long to produce once they had a design that worked).  That still didn't work, so they changed to flip-chip saying that it would be ready mid January.  The ASIC designers were taking longer than usual to switch over to flip-chip because of the style of payment (only paid upon receipt of working device), so now they aren't ready until the end of January.

So by using your logic...this last update and timeline is a BEST CASE SCENARIO.

LOL keep waiting for your pre-orders you tards!

[crazyates]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?

[crazyates]

LOL keep waiting for your pre-orders you tards!

I'll gladly keep quietly waiting for my pre-order like the tard I am if you'll stop posting dozens of times a day in the BFL theads like the douchebag troll you've proven yourself to be.

[smoothie]

LOL keep waiting for your pre-orders you tards!

I'll gladly keep quietly waiting for my pre-order like the tard I am if you'll stop posting dozens of times a day in the BFL theads like the douchebag troll you've proven yourself to be.

LOL i'm sorry you trying to strike deals? Not happening. I will call out BFL bullshit for what it is.

As a kool-aid drinker of BFL keep doing that. I'm sure you will get your pre-order in NO TIME!. Just like Pirate is going to pay back all PPT operators so we all can make 7% per week.  

[SgtSpike]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?

20k would have covered all preorders as of some point in November or December (can't remember).  10k-12k is the first batch of chips from the first wafer, and it seems like Josh is saying those will make up the first shipment heading out of BFL.  So, it looks like MOST of the preorders will be filled via the 1/3 plan in the first week of production.  Which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, so I am going to ask Josh for more clarification.  By "shipment", he may just mean that the first batch of chips they receive will be from only one wafer, and will be that many chips.

EDIT:  Just saw this part of the quote again.  It does sound like they'll be holding all preorders until those first 75TH/s are built, then sending them all out.  Bummer. 

The 1/3 plan applies to the first 10,000 - 12,000 chips. After that it's FIFO.

[CharlieContent]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

[smoothie]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

+1 It's just funny to watch people get strung along.....we are at 4 months and counting, 7 months if you count from when the preorders started.

[mobodick]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

I am standing by the side of this whole thing and it seems to me BFL is actually making something. They just act irresponsibly with other peoples money. But who can stop them?

[tvbcof]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

This denial is an entirely natural human reaction.

When the operators blew the Chernobyl reactor sky high, they spent the next bunch of hours trying to insert the control rods into the mostly non-existent graphite pile.  This even as everyone who went out to have a look came back and told them that there just wasn't anything left.

[CharlieContent]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

I am standing by the side of this whole thing and it seems to me BFL is actually making something. They just act irresponsibly with other peoples money. But who can stop them?

I think that possibly they started off with the intention of running an honest business, but then realized that they are too incompetent to build the product. Then their CEO, who as we all know has no moral objection to scamming (he has a conviction for it, as all the BFL fanboys like to gloss over) decided just to continue taking pre-orders and stalling people until he could hide the cash and get out of the country.

I think that Josh is just as clueless about this as the victims, and genuinely believes that his ugly mangled face works for a "tech start up" when actually he is just a pawn.

[SgtSpike]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

Calling names doesn't lead to intelligent discussions with any sort of desirable results.  I would advise against it.

As I've said before, BFL very much looks like a company inexperienced in creating ASICs, creating ASICs.  They could be a scam, but I am doubtful, simply because they would have already run with the money if they were.  The logical conclusion is that they have indeed had the setbacks Josh has recently written in detail about, and that they will eventually produce their ASIC products.

[Syke]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-8.html#post10450

First batch has been slashed to 10k chips.

[crazyates]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-8.html#post10450

First batch has been slashed to 10k chips.

TY for the link.

So 10-12k chips is somewhere around 75-90TH/s? Do we know how long after those 12k chips are assembled and shipped before the next batch of chips is ready to process? I have some orders at the beginning that would be shipped first, and some orders that were placed later that won't be shipped first.

[greyhawk]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

I have no money in this and I believe BFL is sincerely trying to build what they are saying they're trying to build. I also believe they have not the slightest idea what they are doing.