[Archive] BFL trolling museum

[CharlieContent]

Does anyone who doesn't have any skin in the game still believe BFL is for real?

It seems to me that the only people who believe BFL isn't some kind of scam are those with pre-orders, the same way that only those with large investments in BCS&T believed that Pirateat40 was for real towards the end.

BFL adherents, when will you allow yourselves to consider the fact that this is a scam. When the February deadline is missed? Or are you such chumps that you will allow a convicted fraudster to lead you through yet another hoop?

Calling names doesn't lead to intelligent discussions with any sort of desirable results.  I would advise against it.

As I've said before, BFL very much looks like a company inexperienced in creating ASICs, creating ASICs.  They could be a scam, but I am doubtful, simply because they would have already run with the money if they were.  The logical conclusion is that they have indeed had the setbacks Josh has recently written in detail about, and that they will eventually produce their ASIC products.

Your opinion would carry more weight if they weren't holding your money.

There could be any number of reasons why they haven't run with the money. The new pre-orders coming in could exceed the rate of refunds (wouldn't surprise me considering how heavily they still advertise) or they could still be putting together their method for running with the money. You can't just put $5m on a suitcase and get on a plane.

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[crazyates]

So the first shipment will be 10,000 - 12,000 chips worth.

Sounds like refunds are adding up. First it was 20k, then up to 100k chips. Now it's down to only 10k chips.

Can you link that quote?

I think you're getting confused, tho. They had ordered 100k chips from the fab. Only 20k of those would be available in the first round of shipments, and then the other 80k would come later. Idk about that 12k number tho, maybe it was how much will actually be shipping to customers?

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/690-13-jan-2013-asic-update-discussion-thread-8.html#post10450

First batch has been slashed to 10k chips.

TY for the link.

So 10-12k chips is somewhere around 75-90TH/s? Do we know how long after those 12k chips are assembled and shipped before the next batch of chips is ready to process? I have some orders at the beginning that would be shipped first, and some orders that were placed later that won't be shipped first.

So this is where BFL failed to address why 90% of the previously projected chips will not be produced in the first batch as indicated previously? 90% reduction in supply is a huge red flag guys!!

They said before that they would eventually get 100k chips, but not at once. The initial batch was only for 20k chips, and now it looks like it's been changed to 12k, prolly because of the redesign. Look up - you literally just reposted a quote of me already explaining that.

At what point will you call their bullshit? After 3 more delays?

I don't really see how that question is at all related to the entire conversation we were just quoting, but I'll go with it. I'll keep going along with them until I no longer feel it's profitable. If bASIC hadn't gone down the shitter, and was shipping ASICS for a month now, and I could place an order and get it within a week, I'd prolly be tempted cancel my BFL orders and order from Tom. That's not the case. As it stands, I believe that my pre-orders with BFL are the best bet for getting an ASIC. Maybe Avalon ships first, maybe not. I don't have any orders with Avalon, so I'd rather stick it out with BFL than get into a 2nd round batch with Avalon.

I've never found their company politics to be any of my concern. I've never had any bad encounter with any of their employees. Their FPGA product is still hashing at my house right now (880 firmware, too). I pre-ordered back months ago never really expecting them to ship on time, so this was all already pre-calculated for me. The "clock buffer" thing was kinda weird, but their recent announcements and clarity have been better.

So let me ask you this: At what point will you stop YOUR bullshit? I seriously don't understand the level of hate you have for a company that you're not even a customer of!

[CharlieContent]

Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

[DoomDumas]

It's quite surprising that many BFL-haters just dont have any pre-order !  Why are they so dedicated at this trolling activity, what do they gain from it ?  Are they doing it in the hope that they would save some from being scammed ?  What do they gain from it ?   Why so much time and energy ?  Pure altruism ?  To boost their ego in case they could someday say : "I've told you" !

So much time and effort are quite incomprehensible from my point of view..  They must have any gain of some sort to invest so much from themselves, about something they are not concerned by.  Only Ego gain ?

Weird !

[tvbcof]

I've seen nothing solid which invalidates the hypothesis that BFL is 100% scam.  At this point I lean to this hypothesis as the one which explains the most observations, and makes the most sense operationally. ...

That's the idea. I believe BFL started with good intentions. Then when unforseen things came up they tried to delay. As more unforeseen things came up they had to keep to their story otherwise the jig would be up.

That is another completely valid hypothesis.  Only time will tell if either one, or neither, ends up being right.

In the mean time, we (or to speak only for myself, I) just keep stacking up verifiable observations against the remaining hypotheses which are yet to be invalidated.

[crazyates]

Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

A) That has no bearing on their business operations. He is one of their 25 employees.

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

[creativex]

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?

[crazyates]

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?

First of all, sex offendor =/= pedo.

I don't have a daughter. But I see your point, as I would be cautious. But you gotta remember: Sonny is not the one taking my money. BFL is. BFL happens to employ a previously convicted felon. Lots of companies do.

[tvbcof]

B) I used to work for a convicted sex offender. Did that affect his business practices or his ability to act as a manager? No.

Would you trust him with your 13 year old daughter?

Why then would you trust a convicted thief with large sums of money?

That's it.  ~crazyates has GOT to be some form of troll.  Nobody could possible have not seen that one coming.

[crazyates]

That's it.  ~crazyates has GOT to be some form of troll.  Nobody could possible have not seen that one coming.

Why? Granted it wasn't the best analogy, but my point is that people change. I've seen it.

[Miner99er]

Also, people change...

Did any of you READ Sonny's write up about what happened?

I'm guessing no.

[greyhawk]

people change. I've seen it.

They look like monsters to you?

[creativex]

Sonny is NOT just one of their alleged 25 employees. He was their CEO and he is still an officer with the company by all accounts. The Vleisides name is crap, BFL is entwined with their family, and still BFL is mum on this subject. Where's the town hall meeting, did I miss it?

I don't have a daughter either, but I'll no more trust a convicted sex offender with my 3 teenage sons then I'll trust a convicted thief with my hard earned funds.

[Korbman]

Also their CEO is a CONVICTED SCAMMER!

How can people just gloss over that as if it's no big deal?

Because he a) isn't running the show, and b) isn't the only person working at BFL.
People seem to consistently forget that in order to pull off a scam of this magnitude, they'd need to support of all participating members...managers, execs, designers, engineers, etc.

Believe it or not, most people are not sociopaths.

[Bitinvestor]

BFL happens to employ a previously convicted felon. Lots of companies do.

Yeah, to clean their toilets. NOT as managers.

[ElectricMucus]

Well to get into the position of a CEO you must have some special relations of significant importance to the company. So a CEO is not just any employee.
It's not even an employee position at all either so to dictate company policy.

[creativex]

It's also been handled very very poorly. If BFL had said, prior to opening their pre-order window, look we've got this guy that got into some trouble and we're giving him a second chance because we believe he's changed then that would've been one thing.

They did not do this and instead hid his last name, failed to disclose his past, and then shuffled his job description once he was found out. They've handled this even worse than they have their numerous delay announcements.

[smoothie]

It's also been handled very very poorly. If BFL had said, prior to opening their pre-order window, look we've got this guy that got into some trouble and we're giving him a second chance because we believe he's changed then that would've been one thing.

They did not do this and instead hid his last name, failed to disclose his past, and then shuffled his job description once he was found out. They've handled this even worse than they have their numerous delay announcements.

Yup if they had nothing to hide they would have thought that their customers would like to know that detail to instill confidence. I would have trusted them more had they been open about Sonny having a criminal record. Investors need to know these facts.

[Korbman]

BFL happens to employ a previously convicted felon. Lots of companies do.

Yeah, to clean their toilets. NOT as managers.

Ha, seems you're overlooking just about every single company in the banking/financial industry...

[Miner99er]

BFL happens to employ a previously convicted felon. Lots of companies do.

Yeah, to clean their toilets. NOT as managers.

Ha, seems you're overlooking just about every single company in the banking/financial industry...

truth!!!