[Avalon ASIC] Batch #2 pre-Sale Thread

[king_pin]

• Bitcoin Only
• No Refunds
• No Proof

In my country I heard on the news of a 82y old Lady making telephone scams, dude she had a better plan than you.
However I will ask one question:

You admit to having so many problems, so much work, yet you still find the time to post senseless comments every few hours in this thread.
How is that possible?

[Phinnaeus Gage]

• Bitcoin Only
• No Refunds
• No Proof

In my country I heard on the news of a 82y old Lady making telephone scams, dude she had a better plan than you.
However I will ask one question:

You admit to having so many problems, so much work, yet you still find the time to post senseless comments every few hours in this thread.
How is that possible?

I once asked the very same question of some other fine gent on this site. His answer--master at multitasking (paraphrased).

[2112]

All i know is that sending your money to anyone without solid proof they have a product is silly.

I kinda agree with this sentiment. But why whine? Call BitSyncom, ask what MOSFETs and inductors he needs, raid the nearest RadioShack and Fry's and negotiate with him an exchange of components for finished product. If needed fly them himself to China in carry-in luggage. Arrange to get completed Avalons smuggled out of China through Vietnam or Mongolia. Even if you can't do any of the above, discuss the scheme with other users of this forum. Maybe someone will do it?

Otherwise you run the risk that your highest point of involvement in the Bitcoin experiment will be "I hit the Ignore button on one college educated know it all with not a single callus on his hands because he was disrespectfull to the new user with a reasonable post". Even your own grandchildren will snicker at that, they will prefer to listen to the stories of an antique wood dealer.

But please don't whine.

[Third Way]

> dbasql

It thinks for itself! 

[2112]

I have no idea of what you are trying to say or how anything you are saying pertains to a pre-order of a product. I don't care about what nerd pet names people came up with for past projects. This is about the technology, products and order process now.

What I see on this forum are people that have pre-ordered and are trying to convince themselves it was a good idea. If they see something they don't like or makes them uncomfortable they resort to personal attacks including the vendors representatives.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I can explain myself better: I realize that you are a professional relational database administrator, a kind of guy that always wears his pants with both belt and suspenders. The most daringest exploit it your business career was where you put the log files on the ramdisk and run "UPDATE TABLE" without "WHERE" clause and then kept doing "TRUNCATE LOG WITH NO_LOG" to avoid overfilling the ramdisk.

I'm not saying that it is anything wrong with the above.

But the humanity needs two kinds of mariners: (1) those who sail the seven seas and (2) ferry operators. You are the second kind. BitSyncom asked for orders from the first kind. Your areas of expertise don't overlap in any meaningful way.

I hope I'm clearer now.

[dbasql]

I have no idea of what you are trying to say or how anything you are saying pertains to a pre-order of a product. I don't care about what nerd pet names people came up with for past projects. This is about the technology, products and order process now.

What I see on this forum are people that have pre-ordered and are trying to convince themselves it was a good idea. If they see something they don't like or makes them uncomfortable they resort to personal attacks including the vendors representatives.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

I can explain myself better: I realize that you are a professional relational database administrator, a kind of guy that always wears his pants with both belt and suspenders. The most daringest exploit it your business career was where you put the log files on the ramdisk and run "UPDATE TABLE" without "WHERE" clause and then kept doing "TRUNCATE LOG WITH NO_LOG" to avoid overfilling the ramdisk.

I'm not saying that it is anything wrong with the above.

But the humanity needs two kinds of mariners: (1) those who sail the seven seas and (2) ferry operators. You are the second kind. BitSyncom asked for orders from the first kind. Your areas of expertise don't overlap in any meaningful way.

I hope I'm clearer now.

So you think you have it all figured out by looking at my account name? Not that it matters but I know nothing about relational DB's. You are clearly making this a personal attack against me and all I am doing is posting an observation of the marketplace. If it makes you feel better about your investment that's cool although I don't know why you would be so worried what I have to say. I certainly would not speculate on what you do or your expertise by your username on forum. 

Again good luck on whatever you decide to do. Bitcoin is a hobby at best for me but perhaps it means the world to you. 

[tvbcof]

...

In a year or so asics will be todays gpus. The excitement will be over and incremental asic upgrades will not matter much. The early birds will do well and even the some what late comers will make some money... But the mad rush will be satisfied and the asic companies will be yesterdays news. What then? Right back where we started with the most clever coming up with a good business model that just happens to accept bitcoins. The same type of people who do well with or without btc.

I am not sure i will even buy asics now. I have been turned off from it by these companies who think they can treat customers like dirt. It is probably time to shift gears to a different area of bitcoin and sink or swim. Or maybe just fade away to something else. Who knows?

All i know is that sending your money to anyone without solid proof they have a product is silly. So far we have seen teases and that would have been ok months ago but not today. So consider buying an asic product like gambling at this point and not as an investment. Because as an investment you are in super high risk land and it is very foolish.

It always made more sense to me to simply buy Bitcoin vs. trying to mine competitively over a reasonable period of time.  The only argument that might change my mind at this point would be if Avalon ships a working product, nobody else does for some time, and Avalon keeps a pretty modest delivery schedule.  All big ifs, and even if it does turn out that way, it'll be pretty hard to get one's hands on the gear.  I don't think the risk is probably worth it unless the USD/BTC rate really skyrockets...and as always it would also work well to be sitting on a full wallet.dat in that case anyway.

The time to 'shift gears' would have been in early 2011, or during the 2011 crash despair.  For someone with balls, the ability to hit a jackpot may still exist at $20/BTC, but obviously not to the same degree as earlier.  Of course we may get another crash-like-thing, but if I were wishing to get in at the present time, I'd not wish to wait for it and risk being left behind.  I'd just dollar-cost average from here to get my possition I suppose.

My only interest in ASIC gear is to locate it strategically to capitalize on state sponsored interference (and support the Bitcoin network in such an eventuality) so I'll be interested both in proof of a working product and more importantly in a flexible and well documented product (aka, 'open'.)  Avalon hints that they have no interest in being any more open than they have to which leads me to believe that it'll be someone else who ultimately stirs my interest in mining enough to throw money at it.

[loshia]

BitSyncom,
What about Lancelot upgrade program. Will all Lancelot customers be able to get 399 USD discount for their Lancelots as promised? Can you write a bit more about how shall we proceed with ordering/payment in case we do upgrade?
10X

This matter has been addressed and updated in the first thread.

BitSyncom,

Thank you for your feedback. Following you post i understood that Lancelot customers will be able to upgrade to Avalon saving 399 USD. Please correct me if i am mistaken.

However flowing questions remained:

1. Will  Get Credit button be functional by tomorrow (http://launch.avalon-asics.com/#prices)?
2. Shall we have to pay full amount of  $1499/unit and get a refund equal to 399 USD when you receive our Lancelot unit?
3. Or we have to pay  $1499 - 399$ = 1100$ and you will ship our unit after receiving Lancelot board?

In general if you explain how the upgrade is going to happen with few sentences will be great.

Thank you very much in advance


Best

[mjester93]

All i know is that sending your money to anyone without solid proof they have a product is silly.

I kinda agree with this sentiment. But why whine? Call BitSyncom, ask what MOSFETs and inductors he needs, raid the nearest RadioShack and Fry's and negotiate with him an exchange of components for finished product. If needed fly them himself to China in carry-in luggage. Arrange to get completed Avalons smuggled out of China through Vietnam or Mongolia. Even if you can't do any of the above, discuss the scheme with other users of this forum. Maybe someone will do it?

Otherwise you run the risk that your highest point of involvement in the Bitcoin experiment will be "I hit the Ignore button on one college educated know it all with not a single callus on his hands because he was disrespectfull to the new user with a reasonable post". Even your own grandchildren will snicker at that, they will prefer to listen to the stories of an antique wood dealer.

But please don't whine.

I'm actually down to bust some Radioshacks - let's do this!

[MPOE-PR]

He isn't a potential customer. As for trolling... think what you will. All he did was repeating what I've established as fact, and all I did was made sure he didn't miss it. Seeing how he pops up every 2-3 pages talking about how I've yet to provide a tracking number.

If this was on purpose however, I'd like to start ignoring him. What do you expect SysRun? reply to you with things like "Sorry, I have no new information" every 2-3 pages?

BitSynCom, he might not be a potential customer, but I am.  Myself and undoubtedly several hundred others are no doubt hanging on your every word in order to determine whether or not Avalon products are a legitimately worthy investment.  Except, your words in this post have definitely left a sour taste in our mouths.  But since you don't really care about that, allow me to speak more in terms you may understand.  

By marginalizing us, your potential investors, you are killing your business profits in the long term.  People are looking at your company's unprofessional communications and completely reversing their decision to buy Avalon ASICs.  You demand BTC only payments (which is almost understandable) and then claim no refunds (which is cause for concern) and finally offer "no proof."  I am sorry, but no wise person, and especially not myself, will invest hundreds upon hundreds of dollars in an unreleased product without a substantial amount of information.

Now is not the time to tell your potential customers to weather the storm of uncertainty.  To commit their valuable dollars to your project with nothing but complete faith in your word.  You can tease us with photographs or screenshots of cgminer but these are entirely insufficient.

BitSynCom, you can fix this. You undeniably have access to verifiable information, any sort of evidence which proves that these ASIC miners are in existence.  It's time to put your product in the spotlight, because as of now I'm not even flinching towards a buy button.  No one wants to risk so much when there are so many unknown variables. 

As clear as it is that you have not employed an effective customer service team or PR department, you must use such evidence to convince us of the quality of these products.  Many are worried that  they could be shipped a defective device and will be completely out of luck.  I do not blame them for thinking it, what help can a company be when it is unconcerned with complaints?  It seems like you simply want to take our money and run.  I have very little confidence in Avalon, because while you may indeed deliver what you claim to be a superior ASIC, I am not seeing the kind of company that I want to be dealing with for months and years to come.  

Ultimately I am not buying from the person who's claims are the best, I am buying from what I can judge most clearly and accurately, with my own two eyes.  If I see nothing convincing, I will gladly, happily take my investments elsewhere.

The thing is, this stuff reads exactly as if it were copied from bASIC's private forum cca three weeks ago.

I don't mean to impugn you personally, I'm sure you mean well. It's just...you're meaning well up the wrong tree so to speak.

I am not a newb when it comes to running a business. My entire reason for even giving a shit about Bitcoin is the ASIC technology. I don't gamble, want items secretly in the mail, need to tip whores etc.

Do you invest?

[MPOE-PR]

Let me start by saying I am a total newb when it comes to Bitcoin and this website. I am not a newb when it comes to running a business. My entire reason for even giving a shit about Bitcoin is the ASIC technology. I don't gamble, want items secretly in the mail, need to tip whores etc.

Maybe you aren't a newbie in the business, but you've still remained remarkably naive.

Bitcoin is a new frontier; very much like petroleum exctraction was some time ago. Go rewatch Dallas or Dynasty on fast forward, but this time with understanding of the business undercurrent in those shows. At least in Bitcoinia nobody is kidnaping people's children, setting factories on fire, etc.

Really, learn some history. eldentyrell named his FPGA bitcoin operation "Tricone mining". Actually go to the library and research the conditions which oil drillers had to accept to lease tricone driling bits. Yes, lease and not buy.

Most of you calling themselves businessmen or customers are just whiners, wannabes or effete mamma-boys. Do you really think that you have it hard?

Just for the lulz. Otherwise you have a point somewhere in there.

In a year or so asics will be todays gpus. The excitement will be over and incremental asic upgrades will not matter much. The early birds will do well and even the some what late comers will make some money... But the mad rush will be satisfied and the asic companies will be yesterdays news. What then? Right back where we started with the most clever coming up with a good business model that just happens to accept bitcoins. The same type of people who do well with or without btc.

No, actually I'm betting it will be a financial competition. As it is always the case in commodified unregulated markets, he who knows best how to use MPEx options and futures wins.

Otherwise you run the risk that your highest point of involvement in the Bitcoin experiment will be "I hit the Ignore button on one college educated know it all with not a single callus on his hands because he was disrespectfull to the new user with a reasonable post". Even your own grandchildren will snicker at that, they will prefer to listen to the stories of an antique wood dealer.

Your point is valid but grossly misapplied, it seems to me. Ignoring or not ignoring wanna-be representatives of wanna-be producers of a technology that still lies squarely outside of both the intellectual and financial purview of this entire collected community is not at all akin or even vaguely comparable to "ignoring that one cool guy".

I'll bet you strippers to nerds or fine gourmet meals to pots of ramen that you're all currently ignoring the people who are actually making ASICs and who will dominate the ASIC market for years no questions asked simply because they can't be bothered to come to this forum and talk to you at all. I know this because experience teaches: it's what you did re MPEx a year/eternity ago.

[makomk]

I kinda agree with this sentiment. But why whine? Call BitSyncom, ask what MOSFETs and inductors he needs, raid the nearest RadioShack and Fry's and negotiate with him an exchange of components for finished product. If needed fly them himself to China in carry-in luggage.

Radio Shack and Fry's don't carry a decent selection of MOSFETs or inductors, and even if they did sending them to China would be like shipping coals to Newcastle - it's one of the few places where you can actually walk in and buy these kinds of parts.

[YipYip]

All i know is that sending your money to anyone without solid proof they have a product is silly.

I kinda agree with this sentiment. But why whine? Call BitSyncom, ask what MOSFETs and inductors he needs, raid the nearest RadioShack and Fry's and negotiate with him an exchange of components for finished product. If needed fly them himself to China in carry-in luggage. Arrange to get completed Avalons smuggled out of China through Vietnam or Mongolia. Even if you can't do any of the above, discuss the scheme with other users of this forum. Maybe someone will do it?

Otherwise you run the risk that your highest point of involvement in the Bitcoin experiment will be "I hit the Ignore button on one college educated know it all with not a single callus on his hands because he was disrespectfull to the new user with a reasonable post". Even your own grandchildren will snicker at that, they will prefer to listen to the stories of an antique wood dealer.

But please don't whine.

I'm actually down to bust some Radioshacks - let's do this!

Yeah...lets get ma Hommiess glocks and go hitz thems radio shacks for thems (Caps + resitors)

If theyz givs us annnyys troubles..well put some (capz + resistors) in there arse....

This is so bad its so funny

[beekeeper]

Radio Shack and Fry's don't carry a decent selection of MOSFETs or inductors, and even if they did sending them to China would be like shipping coals to Newcastle - it's one of the few places where you can actually walk in and buy these kinds of parts.

It sounds like they were trying to get cheapest transistor and ICs possible from local producers, this probably would mean that Radio Shack is expensive.

[PuertoLibre]

• Bitcoin Only
• No Refunds
• No Proof

In my country I heard on the news of a 82y old Lady making telephone scams, dude she had a better plan than you.
However I will ask one question:

You admit to having so many problems, so much work, yet you still find the time to post senseless comments every few hours in this thread.
How is that possible?

I once asked the very same question of some other fine gent on this site. His answer--master at multitasking (paraphrased).

Hehe, you mean he gets paid to continue his scam?

We are talking about Rico Suave right?

I also note on the last page there are two users trying to restart the fire, both with exceptionally low post counts and very long posts. Stinks of sock puppetry.

[PsychoticBoy]

Wow!!!

You are all getting F'ed in the A.

LOL

[Ascension]

The only way for Avalon to prove that they have a legit product is to delay Batch #2 Orders until proof that their ASIC unit actually reaches Jeff and he can confirm the unit actually hashes on the network.

I am not the only person that is skeptical of the fact that they are going to be taking payments for Batch #2 without having any proof.

It would be very wise of Avalon to delay Batch #2 orders until there is Proof, in light of the bASIC project failing.

Delaying Batch#2 a couple of days is not going to hurt anyone. Delaying would only show that Avalon is legit.

[SolarSilver]

The only way for Avalon to prove that they have a legit product is to delay Batch #2 Orders until proof that their ASIC unit actually reaches Jeff and he can confirm the unit actually hashes on the network.

If Yifu anyways has to take a plane to get back to NY to oversee the batch #2 pre-orders, he can just take a unit in his suitcase and show it to a relevant person in NY (surely there must be somebody of 'statue' in NY?).

[MrTeal]

The only way for Avalon to prove that they have a legit product is to delay Batch #2 Orders until proof that their ASIC unit actually reaches Jeff and he can confirm the unit actually hashes on the network.

If Yifu anyways has to take a plane to get back to NY to oversee the batch #2 pre-orders, he can just take a unit in his suitcase and show it to a relevant person in NY (surely there must be somebody of 'statue' in NY?).

There is, though she doesn't get out much anymore.

[Walter Rothbard]

The only way for Avalon to prove that they have a legit product is to delay Batch #2 Orders until proof that their ASIC unit actually reaches Jeff and he can confirm the unit actually hashes on the network.

I am not the only person that is skeptical of the fact that they are going to be taking payments for Batch #2 without having any proof.

It would be very wise of Avalon to delay Batch #2 orders until there is Proof, in light of the bASIC project failing.

Delaying Batch#2 a couple of days is not going to hurt anyone. Delaying would only show that Avalon is legit.

I agree with all of this, but if there are people willing to take the risk and pay for batch #2 now, why should the buyers or Avalon wait?  If nobody is willing to take that risk, Avalon will have to do as you suggest.  But if sufficient numbers of people are willing to pay for batch #2 now, then Avalon can go ahead and people who want to be safer will just have to wait for batch #3 or later, right?  People who want to bungie jump without a tested cord shouldn't be told they have to wait until the cord is tested for people who want to be safer, IMO.