BD, why do you insist on personifying the universe?
Don't know what you mean. That I know of, I haven't treated the universe as a person. Is that what you mean?
If god is everything and evrywhere then the universe and god are one and the same, your reference to god and the scriptures acknowledges the unproven concept of a father and son, a father in whose image man was created ......etc. In reality there is no evidence of such so.
We can "if" anything. We were not talking about if God is everything until you brought it up just now.
The Bible is a record of witnesses. The witness accounts were based on the power in the miracles that were done by God and those to whom God gave power. That is why faith is important. The miracles would be proof, except the people on whom the miracles were done have passed on. So, you can't see the miracles themselves.
It is far more spectacular and mysterious then anything human? Also you keep referring people back to texts that were applicable to societies living in the stone age.
That we know of, people always had a head, arms, legs, hands feet, and a torso. And they always reproduced the same way that they do now. Since people are the same as they always were - except that nowadays they are not as intelligent because of entropy - why shouldn't age-old texts apply now as they did back then?
While i can accept there are some universal truths they preached, they are also filled with tribalism and dogma.
Regarding Christianity, the dogma that you speak about had to do with living within the governmental authorities of that day. The moral stuff hasn't changed at all.
Moreover most of the formal religions Judaeo Christian and Muslim are allegories of more interesting ancient ideas that were based on real philosophy and science. An example:- The Egyptians supposedly worshiped the sun, but scratch a bit deeper and you realize the Sun god was a cover story for the illiterate masses who likely couldn't comprehend that an obelisk was a sundial that not only worked out the time of day but could be used to chart the seasons etc.
Again, people have lost some of their thinking ability and intelligence due to the ever-present, ever-increasing entropy. The only thing that makes you think that earlier peoples were more ignorant than we are today is, entropy has reduced your thinking ability.
Our capacity for intelligence is not diminished by entropy.
That is not logical. Since our intelligence exists within us, and since we are in the universe, our intelligence is within the universe. Everything in the universe is affected by entropy.
So as time passed and societies grew, allegories evolved to incorporate various tribal cultural aspirations and morals codes. Today we live in a globally connected community that is divided by idiots who cant think for themselves or are being brainwashed by parasites who hide behind shields of religion.
And one of the greatest false religious qualities of today is that people need less religion and less dogma than they did in the past. The truth is, because of the widespread idiocy - which you alluded to above - people need the dogma embedded and entrenched into them more strongly than ever.
Ok who is qualified to embed and entrench this much needed dose of dogma, and what dogma is the the correct dogma.
That is what the foundational question is all about. Cause and effect, action and reaction are in everything. There is no proof of anything that is spontaneous, but we have loads of proof of things that are effects of causes.
The fact of the complexity of the universe, and the fact of our intelligence, shows that cause and effect have caused complexity and intelligence to exist. Trace cause and effect backwards into the past to the Beginning, and you will find that whatever caused it all is complex and intelligent beyond it all. This Intelligence is God.
Entropy says that there was a beginning. There had to be, because if there was none, entropy would have dissolved and dissipated and dispersed and diffused everything into no complexity whatever long ago.
Entropy also shows us that whatever the Great First Cause was, He had to be way more intelligent than we. Why? Because entropy is making intelligence to be less than it was in the past.
To answer your question directly, based on the above, God "is qualified to embed and entrench this much needed dose of dogma, and what dogma is the the correct dogma." And He is the one Who did it.
We need move past dogma and to take a very critical look at all aspects of our different cultures, celebrate that which is appropriate and worthy (for which there is a lot) and abandon that which retarded.
Right!
Great we agree on that
Actually, we probably don't, entirely. We need to abandon the foolishness of treating science theory as truth until we find out that it is fact. The dogma of accepting science theory as fact is ruining truth and society by turning lots of things into science fiction that were never meant to be sci-fi.
Start by taking a look at the history of the making of the Bible. Once you see it in detail, you will know that the Bible is an impossible to exist book... except for the fact that it does exist. This shows you that there is power behind it. That power is God.
I agree to the extent that what we believe in is conjured into our reality, but not always in the way we had intended it to be. For instance religions are very real in that they affect all our lives, like them or not. Likewise almost all our conceptions and divination come to pass, man first conceived the idea of flight then it became possible when he applied that conception appropriately. Like religion the result is not always what was originally what was envisaged. The art Alchemy was not just restricted to the transmutation of materials but also our psyche, Religions evolved out of paganism and alchemy as a means to rule the masses. There is a lot more truth and validity in their approach to understanding then in the invention of gods. I.e. be careful of what you believe in and wish for it may well come to pass but perhaps not quiet the way we had wished. Look at the mess religious fundamentalism creates.
The Bible is an impossible-to-have-been-made book in a literal way. The things of the Bible, the records of the nation of Israel, the intertwining of the Messiah Jesus throughout the whole thing, simply could not have been made the way it was, piece by piece over multiple hundreds of years, without some supernatural power guiding it all.
Yes science does not have all the answers it does not address the metaphysical, it can only attempt explain that which can be measured the metaphysical cannot be measured. Our consciousness, our emotions and the questions of where we have come from and will go to will never be fully understood by science. The universe is far more enchanting then simple measurements.
As I said in my previous post, science will take a hundred thousand years (figurative for a very long time) to ever figure anything spiritually important out. You can see part of the reason why by going back to that post and looking.
I'm inclined to go further and say that science is not capable of explaining the metaphysical, because there is nothing for it measure.
Here is the conundrum, mathematics is a supernatural metaphysical language that science uses to describe the physical universe.
The bigger conundrum is that few people are willing to understand that there is no math in nature. Math is a virtual language developed by mankind so that man can express in language the things that he sees. Since math was made by man, it is flawed. After all, if man wasn't flawed, he could keep himself alive forever.
Well I cant see it being invented because other intelligent life in the universe will discover the same mathematics and its proofs
Except that describing anything about any other intelligent life in the universe is part of the realm of science fiction.
Further, you can find many inventions that were put together independently and simultaneously by more than one inventor. This happened with the telephone. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invention_of_the_telephone. Why could math not be invented and developed by more than one person? Actually, in the history of earth, it has.
Ultimately both science and religions face the same paradoxical question of how nothing makes itself and everything?
Except for the fact that it doesn't. God makes everything.
Nice try, but you haven't proved gods existence let alone how it created itself.
Since I am not trying to prove, but only to show the proofs and places one can research the proofs, it wasn't a "try." There is no other way than for God to exist, because we have cause and effect without sponteneity, complexity, and entropy.
The words "create" and "make" have to do with things in this universe. God is outside of this universe in a realm that doesn't have create and make like they exist here. God always was, no beginning and no end, different, because He is not part of this universe, even though He exists within it as well as outside of it.
However, even if we didn't know anything about God beyond what cause and effect, complexity, and entropy tell us, He is so great that there would be no way to tell if He had to have been made or not.
While almost all agree intelligent design permeates the universe, none can explain how this came to pass? If it is by the hand of a creator then how then did that creator create itself?
Most people don't even recognize that math is a man-language. So, how in the world are they going to figure out how the Creator created the universe, or the fact that the Creator always existed and never was made like the creation was?
You have them back to front, Maths was not invented or man made. The creator is an invented idea.
Proof that math is a language of man is found it 1 + 1 = 2. Since there are no two things in the universe that are exactly the same, there can never be 2. The correct equation is 1 + a-slightly-different-1 = 1 + a-slightly-different-1.
Math is a virtual language. Perhaps God invented it. But He really doesn't need it. So, mankind probably invented it. But we could have invented our own version of it in addition to the one that God has.
To me, the most objective conclusion is that we are living parts of a living universe. There is no need to personify the whole or insert some imaginary benevolent deity existing outside the universe.
Go ahead and believe your science fiction story. It's just another religion.
Recognizing our own existence as living parts of a whole, If I'm alive then so is the whole, this is fairly self evident. no need for imaginary beings.
This is a fun idea, but we don't have concrete evidence, and certainly not proof of it.
Everything in the universe is interconnected but also uniquely occupies time and space. Like the universe our conciseness is self evolving,
Well, self-devolving.
You have evolved from birth into what you are.
The word "evolved" is a ambiguous word to use because of its many meanings and applications these days.
To say it more clearly, I was programmed to change by God. The method that he used to effect the programming in me was cause and effect. At least, this is the scientific version of it.
it does so with an emotional processor that is driven by inputs from our environment though our five senescence.
Most of the stimuli doesn't come through the 5 senses. Most of it comes through simple cause and effect movement of electrons, protons, atoms and molecules in our brain. All of this has been pre-programmed by God at the Beginning.
Again you inserting the imaginary idea of a scammy creator
The idea is real. Science has proven God. You won't see or understand the proof if you don't attempt it. There is no scam... only freedom. This is difficult to understand, how there is freedom if everything has been programmed, isn't it?
Why did you use the word "senescence" in conjunction with the number 5? It almost doesn't make any sense at all.
Thanks may bad, "senescence" should be senses
You are welcome.
Our self awareness affords us the ability to develop our own operating system biased by our environment. Like mater and energy our consciousness most likely can be transformed and does not expire. The Universe is ALIVE! Grow with it!
But you don't know this. And it will take a long time for science to figure it out, or that it is not true. By that time your great-great-grandchildren will be long dead and gone... probably to Hell if they follow in your footsteps.
This is such a passive aggressive statement
"probably to Hell if they follow in your footsteps", Religions feel insulted when others don't respect the fantasies they hold sacred, but feel entitled to insult others with threats of eternal damnation etc. I call that bigotry.
Perhaps. But in the light of natural and the scientific proofs for the existence of God, and in the miraculous existence of the Bible, contradicting God and the Bible is something that will take a lot more capability than anybody or group of people have.
