Dash: The Future Internet Of Money?

[generalizethis]

In all likelihood, given both coins are launched with similar mining interest, which coin has the better distribution?

What coins are you comparing exactly? Because you just generalized again...

I guess you could call comparing like things to arrive at a logical most likely conclusion a generalization, then you can go on say people using math are generalizing.

You are generalizing this variable:

- similar mining interest

It's easy to miss variables I know... if you eliminate all the specifics the conclusion is obvious

I stipulated that above--after I realized you couldn't fill in the blanks for yourself.

But now revisiting the question, I would go through all the coins and rate them on fairness factoring emission time, software available to miners and emission rate. Though sites exist with this info if you're willing to search.

[BrainShutdown]

Sure. So what coin(s) do you recommend based on your superior requirements?

What is your goal?

1. Short-term profits: gambling or P&D?
2. Long-term profits?
3. Ideological investment to support crypto-currency adoption?

Answers:

1. Close your eyes and pick some from a grab brag or get on the inside with a good scammer.
2. Bitcoin (maybe Monero, but I would prefer Bitcoin yet Monero has greater potential long-term upside)
3. IMO and AFAICS, no realistic choice yet available, other than Bitcoin ecosystem investments

Fair enough. I just don't get why you picked Monero for #2 (along with BTC) knowing that it started as a #1. Can you specify your reasoning?

Bitcoin has 100 times more adoption (don't compare by market cap) given by transaction fees and equivalent power consumption for hashrate than any altcoin. So it currently has the only realistic chance of furthering crypto-currency adoption. Any other coin would have to grow 100 times before it is even making any improvement. 100 times adoption growth is extremely unrealistic.

Thus Bitcoin is the most stable for long-term growth and the most liquid. Bitcoin could possibly fall apart with the block size scaling problems, but I assume this will get resolved with increasing centralization and/or rising transaction fees.

Monero has the best of breed privacy that no other coin can touch. They are implementing RingCT which combined with Cryptonote will hide values, sender, and recipient. This is all End-to-End principled, so Dash is just a nonsense toy compared to Monero w.r.t. to anonymity (notwithstanding many other technical and economic flaws in Dash). Monero has a real cryptographer who is expert in algebraic geometric and other abstract math. Dash doesn't have this. There is no other coin out there with a realistic technology that actually works. Ethereum, List, Iota, MaidSafe, Sia, Storj, Synereo, etc are all flawed and won't work.

There is only one non-bullshit coin with innovation. Monero. Period.

Thats specific thanks.

Just one more question you are confident Monero has all the monetary and performance specs needed to please the market in the future?

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

https://www.rebelmouse.com/dashnation/the-internet-1715527827.html

I would prefer a fork of Dash without the instamine.

I think we will not need Dash or any other altcoin to have privacy in crypto anyway. Most of the development is happening on Bitcoin. Sooner or later Bitcoin will become optionally as anonymous as all those "anonymous altcoins" and all the money on those coins will come back to Bitcoin. With Confidential Transactions, CoinJoin and more, Bitcoin will have no competition for anonymity as well.

OH RLY?

Bitcoin devs can't even agree on a simple block size solution.

And they are going to implement CT, CJ, and more at the protocol level to be used by default with no issues in the transition process. Okay

let me know when you wake up from your dream.

Maybe because the solution is not simple?
The Core devs have already proved that segwit works:

https://segnet.smartbit.com.au/block/0000008dfef05aa2924f65f3423de9875005a9107ff1c963c6c35f929b32ff0e

Here is proof. So Bitcoin IS scaling, and is getting privacy friendly features added too.

Only idiots are still arguing about blocksize increases and dreaming with some irrelevant altcoin taking Bitcoin's #1 spot, everyone with a brain and money already moved to BTC or is doing so slowly to not raise the market too soon.

Thank you for your valuable contribution. A lot of people share your opinion. Dash will be just fine in that environment. We will establish ourselves slowly at first, with the trickle of users soon becoming a flood for the reasons described in my article in the OP.

I wish Dash nothing but the best, but those people saying how Bitcoin is dead and it can't scale hoping that some altcoin will take its place are nothing but delusional.
Bitcoin is scaling, Bitcoin will get more private, those are facts. You just can't say shit about scaling when alts don't even have to face that problem because they are tiny. If some alt gets as big as Bitcoin it's going to be fun seeing them struggle with scaling. It's easy to talk on the sidelines.

There is truth in what you are saying but lets just see what the Bitcoin halving will do with regards to its mining activities, its transaction confirmations and longterm how decentralised it will stay as a whole.
Those are currently my main concerns with regards to Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's possibly semi-centralized and privately funded attempts to scale notwithstanding, the points I made in the OP stand. Bitcoin, through centralized funding sources, will not be able to innovate and adjust as fast as Dash's decentralized funding and governance model. Over time we will start to see the advantages add up. When you introduce centralization to a decentralized currency, it's a recipe for disaster, if you care about that. Dash is decentralized from top to bottom, it is a priority for us, and that is a model that will provide the cohesiveness and the flexibility to overtake the market leader, and lay claim to the title of Internet Of Money.

So I see you are another hopeless case of calling Bitcoin Core/Blockstream centralized and whatnot. Well, I wish you luck with your altcoin, meanwhile the best minds in the game are working hard in keeping the core of Bitcoin decentralized and scaling it through additional layers as any sane person intending to scale a protocol to worldwide usage would do.
In a couple of months it will be clear that anyone that didn't move their altcoins yet to Bitcoin will be up for a harsh awakening.

[BrainShutdown]

In all likelihood, given both coins are launched with similar mining interest, which coin has the better distribution?

What coins are you comparing exactly? Because you just generalized again...

I guess you could call comparing like things to arrive at a logical most likely conclusion a generalization, then you can go on say people using math are generalizing.

You are generalizing this variable:

- similar mining interest

It's easy to miss variables I know... if you eliminate all the specifics the conclusion is obvious

I stipulated that above--after I realized you couldn't fill in the blanks for yourself.

No kid, you've been filling all the blanks to support your argument, but it was fun 

Keep it up.

[generalizethis]

In all likelihood, given both coins are launched with similar mining interest, which coin has the better distribution?

What coins are you comparing exactly? Because you just generalized again...

I guess you could call comparing like things to arrive at a logical most likely conclusion a generalization, then you can go on say people using math are generalizing.

You are generalizing this variable:

- similar mining interest

It's easy to miss variables I know... if you eliminate all the specifics the conclusion is obvious

I stipulated that above--after I realized you couldn't fill in the blanks for yourself.

No kid, you've been filling all the blanks to support your argument, but it was fun 

Keep it up.

Sorry, I assume people know more than they do and don't need their hands held through the process. I'll be sure to remember that you need every little detail spelled out for you.

[BrainShutdown]

In all likelihood, given both coins are launched with similar mining interest, which coin has the better distribution?

What coins are you comparing exactly? Because you just generalized again...

I guess you could call comparing like things to arrive at a logical most likely conclusion a generalization, then you can go on say people using math are generalizing.

You are generalizing this variable:

- similar mining interest

It's easy to miss variables I know... if you eliminate all the specifics the conclusion is obvious

I stipulated that above--after I realized you couldn't fill in the blanks for yourself.

No kid, you've been filling all the blanks to support your argument, but it was fun 

Keep it up.

Sorry, I assume people know more than they do and don't need their hands held through the process. I'll be sure to remember that you need every little detail spelled out for you.

It's really quite funny the things you miss. Keep it up 

[stan.distortion]

...
So I see you are another hopeless case of calling Bitcoin Core/Blockstream centralized and whatnot. Well, I wish you luck with your altcoin, meanwhile the best minds in the game are working hard in keeping the core of Bitcoin decentralized and scaling it through additional layers as any sane person intending to scale a protocol to worldwide usage would do.
In a couple of months it will be clear that anyone that didn't move their altcoins yet to Bitcoin will be up for a harsh awakening.

Who knows? Personally I hope Bitcoin has a strong position for a long time to come but if you think it's destined to be the only coin or is invulnerable to centralisation then it's time to stop drinking the coolaid, even Ripple is going to be around for a while and Etherium is likely to get very widespread adoption via the tech giants unless something better comes along soon. There's going to be more and more alts from here on out, sure, plenty of shitcoins but there's an almost limitless number of niches for them to fill. Dash is purely aiming to fill the niche of digital cash, maybe Bitcoin or some bank created contraption can do that job better, only time will tell on that score but things are looking very good for Dash at present in targeting that specific role.

[generalizethis]

In all likelihood, given both coins are launched with similar mining interest, which coin has the better distribution?

What coins are you comparing exactly? Because you just generalized again...

I guess you could call comparing like things to arrive at a logical most likely conclusion a generalization, then you can go on say people using math are generalizing.

You are generalizing this variable:

- similar mining interest

It's easy to miss variables I know... if you eliminate all the specifics the conclusion is obvious

I stipulated that above--after I realized you couldn't fill in the blanks for yourself.

No kid, you've been filling all the blanks to support your argument, but it was fun 

Keep it up.

Sorry, I assume people know more than they do and don't need their hands held through the process. I'll be sure to remember that you need every little detail spelled out for you.

It's really quite funny the things you miss. Keep it up 

Can you elaborate or is this turning into a pointless back and forth with minimal content and maximum antagonism? IE. trolling.

[AtheistAKASaneBrain]

...
So I see you are another hopeless case of calling Bitcoin Core/Blockstream centralized and whatnot. Well, I wish you luck with your altcoin, meanwhile the best minds in the game are working hard in keeping the core of Bitcoin decentralized and scaling it through additional layers as any sane person intending to scale a protocol to worldwide usage would do.
In a couple of months it will be clear that anyone that didn't move their altcoins yet to Bitcoin will be up for a harsh awakening.

Who knows? Personally I hope Bitcoin has a strong position for a long time to come but if you think it's destined to be the only coin or is invulnerable to centralisation then it's time to stop drinking the coolaid, even Ripple is going to be around for a while and Etherium is likely to get very widespread adoption via the tech giants unless something better comes along soon. There's going to be more and more alts from here on out, sure, plenty of shitcoins but there's an almost limitless number of niches for them to fill. Dash is purely aiming to fill the niche of digital cash, maybe Bitcoin or some bank created contraption can do that job better, only time will tell on that score but things are looking very good for Dash at present in targeting that specific role.

Im not saying im a wizard with special powers that can see the future, im just looking at the fundamentals and at the simple facts we have today:

1) The best in the business is working on Bitcoin, and not other coins
2) Things are looking bright for Bitcoin, it's proving it can scale
3) No other coins are anywhere near Bitcoin, no other coin has lived as long as Bitcoin, no other coin has proved to scale as much as Bitcoin

Ripple is crap and ETH's blockchain is already insanely huge, they are not real competition to take Bitcoin's place. It just has not real competition at all, it's a fact.

[stan.distortion]

...
So I see you are another hopeless case of calling Bitcoin Core/Blockstream centralized and whatnot. Well, I wish you luck with your altcoin, meanwhile the best minds in the game are working hard in keeping the core of Bitcoin decentralized and scaling it through additional layers as any sane person intending to scale a protocol to worldwide usage would do.
In a couple of months it will be clear that anyone that didn't move their altcoins yet to Bitcoin will be up for a harsh awakening.

Who knows? Personally I hope Bitcoin has a strong position for a long time to come but if you think it's destined to be the only coin or is invulnerable to centralisation then it's time to stop drinking the coolaid, even Ripple is going to be around for a while and Etherium is likely to get very widespread adoption via the tech giants unless something better comes along soon. There's going to be more and more alts from here on out, sure, plenty of shitcoins but there's an almost limitless number of niches for them to fill. Dash is purely aiming to fill the niche of digital cash, maybe Bitcoin or some bank created contraption can do that job better, only time will tell on that score but things are looking very good for Dash at present in targeting that specific role.

Im not saying im a wizard with special powers that can see the future, im just looking at the fundamentals and at the simple facts we have today:

1) The best in the business is working on Bitcoin, and not other coins
2) Things are looking bright for Bitcoin, it's proving it can scale
3) No other coins are anywhere near Bitcoin, no other coin has lived as long as Bitcoin, no other coin has proved to scale as much as Bitcoin

Ripple is crap and ETH's blockchain is already insanely huge, they are not real competition to take Bitcoin's place. It just has not real competition at all, it's a fact.

Can your washing machine order up washing powder from your local supplier using your Bitcoin identity to charge it to your account? It can, it takes a bit of clunkyness but it's easily possible. The thing is, there will be an almost infinite number of examples like that and, as you've mentioned with Eth, trying to do that via a single system causes a ridiculous amount of bloat and at the end of the day you've got to ask yourself, do you want that from Bitcoin?

That's why niches, Bitcoin and the Lightning network might well put Dash and InstantX in second place as digital cash and if it does then my hat is off, fair play and Dash will have to find its self another niche but more likely they'll comfortably co-exist in parallel. We'll have to wait and see how that pans out but Dashes governance model is giving it a huge advantage in adaptability and it would have a very good chance of carving out a niche elsewhere. Governance is something Bitcoin really needs to catch up on fast, innovations are going to be coming thick and fast from all angles and it'll become a much more competitive environment before there's any sign of that settling down.

[TaoOfSaatoshi]

Building The IoM | Dash Nation Progress Thread

Let's move forward.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1433982.0

[smooth]

Lol, way OT but whatever, at least Dash has such amazing innovations as a GUI wallet, several of them even which is several more than another coin being heavily promoted in this thread

It is not several more. The other coin also has several GUi wallets. If you mean the original/official GUI wallet, Dash got that with no development (along with 99% of its implementation) by being a Bitcoin fork. Brilliant.

[stan.distortion]

Lol, way OT but whatever, at least Dash has such amazing innovations as a GUI wallet, several of them even which is several more than another coin being heavily promoted in this thread

It is not several more. The other coin also has several GUi wallets. If you mean the original/official GUI wallet, Dash got that with no development (along with 99% of its implementation) by being a Bitcoin fork. Brilliant.

Yeah, apologies for that. I didn't mean to throw anything that way but didn't have a lot of choice, that guy lives on another planet :/ Not trying to dis anyone here, not your coin, not Bitcoin, there's plenty of room for all of them as far as I can see but discussion can get a bit derailed sometimes.

[jmpFCE2]

2 Dogs fighting for 1 bone, hilarious , HAVE FUN

[taw00]

Lol, way OT but whatever, at least Dash has such amazing innovations as a GUI wallet, several of them even which is several more than another coin being heavily promoted in this thread Want to see real innovation? Read the link in the first post.

A GUI wallet does not a technology make.

Yeah more innovation such as the high school math error that was in the InstantX white paper for 1 year until I read the paper.

So, was it fixed? Do you know how many trivial errors I have found in software over the years?

So, you found a bug. Bravo. There are a lot more. There are in Bitcoin, Monero, Ethereum, and in Dash. And even if zero new code arrives, there will be bugs, some of them rather trivial found for eons.

Welcome to software development.

I like to read these forums to pay attention to what is going on, but these childish whiny gripes are tiresome. "High school" even. Please stop. It adds nothing.

[iCEBREAKER]

Lol, way OT but whatever, at least Dash has such amazing innovations as a GUI wallet, several of them even which is several more than another coin being heavily promoted in this thread

It is not several more. The other coin also has several GUi wallets. If you mean the original/official GUI wallet, Dash got that with no development (along with 99% of its implementation) by being a Bitcoin fork. Brilliant.

Dash managed to create a rebranded Bitcoin wallet?  Wow!  Such amazing, very innovation!   

Paycoin also had a GUI.  Look how well that's worked out for its formerly self-assured Cult of Garza bagholders.

[volyova]

No, it can't be.

[MasterMined710]

great article tao!
this thread looks like fun, i wanna play....

1. launch before he said he would
2. launch with no windows wallets (every other dev launched with them and was called out for a scammer if they did not)
3. mined it all up at 10x speed anyone else could after they "fixed it"
4. he then got so excited that he slashed the minting back by 75% so he magnified his mistakes in mining up huge amounts of the coin to super super huge



Let's take a look at the first 5 h of Darkcoin (XCoin at that time)...

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4589219#msg4589219
Edufield said (after failed launch) that he will wait the next day to launch DRK (XCoin at that time) it is 11 pm.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4591407#msg4591407
Edufield disregard windows wallet and daemon and hurry up his launch, presumably to not have windows miners on board.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4592827#msg4592827
Edufield say he added four nodes for the launch at 4 am (5 hours later, despite his promise to wait). The 4 nodes from Edufield are 3 amazons AWS + another unknown (whois IP). Launch started at 3h54 am.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593601#msg4593601
Edufield said the github version was not updated, nobody could compile and only Edufield was able to mine until that time. It is 5.09 am and Edufield instamined alone 1153 block at 500 DRK + 60 block at reward 277 = 593120 DRK for him alone in about 1 hour.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4593987#msg4593987
No windows wallet confirmed at 5h47 am, despite a user attempt to make one avaiable, that Edufield dismissed quickly.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4594096#msg4594096
Illodin, understand dev has instamined alot of coin.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=421615.msg4595573#msg4595573
From this list of nodes, at 8h34 am (4h40 after launch) there were 50 Amazon AWS node and 50 microsoft cloud computing instamining DRK (checked using IP whois service). This is 100/124 nodes using cloud computing to instamine DRK. We are at block 2870 and block reward is 500. From block 1153-1729 block reward is 277. After that it is 500 again hence 2294 block at 500 + 576 at 277 = 1306552 DRK (worth about 13M$ now) were instamined in less than 5 hour by Edufield and coworkers using about 100 cloud mining instances. Edufield himself instamined in not even 5 h from 600K to 1169K DRK ((1306K-600K)*100/124 + 600K) depending how many of the 100 cloud mining instance were its own. All this while having purposefully set the difficult ridiculously low and block reward 100 times what it is now.

so as you know these questions have already been answered ad nauseam and probably why no one responded. these questions are basically a copy and past of smoothies post and others from last year. i already debunked his post so i will just copy and paste it as it answers your questions too. others have done a way more detailed debunking of the mining distribution (replete with charts and tables) in the DASH thread but you'll have to search for that yourself. my rebuttal to smoothie appears in red...

People have a read below as it appears there are glaring facts about this coin that need to be made public.

Step 1. Mislead as many people as possible about the launch time. Like so:

Ok now it insta crashes when I type "setgenerate true".

Time to go to bed and try again next week?

Yeah, let's do that. I obviously need to do some more testing. Thanks everyone!

Best thing to do I guess. Please, confirm you won't be launching after some minutes/hours even if you fix it, and the sooner would be tomorrow, thanks.

Definitely not. I'll also follow up with this post when I do set a time.

"Definitely not."  
I understood "Definitely not" to mean not within minutes/hours not that he would wait till the next day.

We all know he went on to launch it a couple of hours later, despite his confirmation that he'd wait until the next day at the earliest.
He fixed it a couple of hours later (3 hours) and announced it would be relaunched (11pm EST) in a few more hours giving everyone plenty of time. Since crypto is global someone will always be sleeping when a new coin is launched.


The more successful you are with Step 1, the more it will help your instamine in Step 2!


Step 2. INSTAMINE! INSTAMINE! INSTAMINE!
There is no set definition for instamine. You could call a highly inflationary coin like monero an ongoing instamine as DASH/Darkcoin and monero both hit 5 million coins at about the same time a few month's ago. Now DASH is at around 5,800,000 coins and monero is at around 9,400,000 coins.
The trend has been towards faster mined coins where they mine 4-5 million in the first 1-3 weeks. Some newer popular pos anon coins even mine all the coins in 2-3 days and people seem to like that. Several very popular coins are completely or almost completely premined, that does not mean a coin is a scam.

Tok said it best...

"As far as the "rest of the world" is concerned, the entire crypto-economy was "instamined" and resides in the hands of a tiny number of fanatical geek adopters hoping to get rich. Thats why they don't buy in and won't buy in in many cases unless it's the only option left in an atrophying fiat landscape.

It's nice if you can get everything perfect at launch. If you didn't then the market will make up its mind about how much it mattered relative to the things you did get right.

Luckily in this case, there's plenty more of the latter than the former."

Time to instamine your coin! eduffield sets another fine example here with his Linux-only release. This ensures an optimal instamine period without any pesky windows miners getting in the way of it. Eduffield set the bar very high, he managed to instamine 1.5 million coins in just the first 8 hours of launch.
There was a windows miner compiled by users before the 11pm EST relaunch.

TLDR:
1. launch before he said he would
(not true, debunked)

2. launch with no windows wallets (every other dev launched with them and was called out for a scammer if they did not)
(not true, debunked)

3. mined it all up at 10x speed anyone else could after they "fixed it"
(not true, debunked)

4. he then got so excited that he slashed the minting back by 75% so he magnified his mistakes in mining up huge amounts of the coin to super super huge
(this was actually a good call as the ltc emission rate is too inflationary)

[MasterMined710]

Damn Satoshi, that instamine scammer has millions of coins! It doesn't matter how many coins Evan mined at the start (and I for one hope he mined a very good number), someone else will end up with a greater percentage of the cap no matter how many and the same goes for Satoshi, that's just how life works, the rich get richer even if someone else gets a head start on them.

Denying that is wishful thinking, the history books prove it over and over. Maybe that's just how things should be, maybe it's a problem that needs fixing, idk, but what I do know is Dash is the only crypto capable of taking on that kind of question and developing on it.

Estimated 1 - 5% versus the Dash's insiders 33 - 50% or so...

Did you pull those numbers from the second or third shelf of your ass?

you'll have to forgive tptb as he's not very good with fud numbers it seems.
looks like he's using the monero boys trick of comparing "current supply" vs "total supply". they love to use that trick because of their highly inflationary emission rate. it makes the monero cripplemine look better.

satoshi (god bless him) probably controls 5%+ (1 million+) of the total btc supply. along with hal and a handful of others they probably have around 15-20%+ of the "total supply".
the dash instamine was say ~10% of the "total supply" and was distributed to 1000 or so early miners who dumped a lot of them as has been documented.

[MasterMined710]

False argument -> "non-availability of the fair availability during the instamining"

It was available to anyone with:

- A CPU
- Linux SO
- Internet connection


IQ much?

and windows