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Author Topic: ⚡[ANN]⚡ ▐░Espers [ESP]░▌▐░PoW/PoS░▌▐░HMQ1725 Algo░▌ ▐░New Features░▌  (Read 923763 times)
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April 15, 2016, 10:40:16 PM
 #621

I agree with Vorksholk. Miners will lose interest as soon as they understand that on the 18th April around 300 persons will get 333 Million coins each. For free.

No security = no value

Face Palm Sir... You guys really are concerned over things that aren't even an issue with this project

Also your definition of security is flawed. You would need nearly 90% of the hashing to carry out a successful attack

51% gives you effectively 1% change... Not including the fact that the nodes would kick the attackl clients off the main net

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April 15, 2016, 10:45:52 PM
 #622

I must say it a perfect launch and love the coin and solo mine it since start.... but the giveaway is really too big indeed. A simple tweet = 100 000 000+ coins?!? vs more than one month of mining  Huh

I propose reduce the giveaway (and burn the coin that are over maybe?)

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April 15, 2016, 10:47:20 PM
 #623

I must say it a perfect launch and love the coin and solo mine it since start.... but the giveaway is really too big indeed. A simple tweet = 100 000 000+ coins?!? vs more than one month of mining  Huh

I propose reduce the giveaway (and burn the coin that are over maybe?)



Let's put it to a vote then?
We could also host several giveaways
thank you for the support

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April 15, 2016, 10:58:48 PM
 #624

due to the concern of the amount of the giveaway, i purpose that we give out 5% of the premine in giveaways for the next 4 months until the full 20% has been given out. we can come up with different types of giveaways as well. however we will not change anything until we get a community vote. due to the sensitive issue of promising and not delivering coins.


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April 15, 2016, 11:02:57 PM
 #625

Can anyone explain me how to add nodes in Mac OS? Cannot find where..
Thank you in advance.
GL all

Sorry it took a while to get you this information.  Here is how to add nodes to the conf file on a Mac:
  • close Espers
  • navigate to /Users/YOURUSERNAME/Library/Application Support/Espers
  • open Espers.conf with your favorite text editor
  • add the addnode=ipaddress lines into the end of the file and save.
  • start Espers back up

MiningAlts Block Explorers and Windows/Mac Wallet Building Services - http://miningalts.com
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April 15, 2016, 11:11:27 PM
 #626

Is this math correct?

Reverse-ICO reserve is 100,000,000,000 coins (20% of total supply), split on April 18th between everyone on the bitcoingarden thread. If 1000 people participate, that's 100,000,000 coins per person, which is equivalent to mining 2000 blocks.

This coin will never exchanges with BTC . It would exchange Just with LTC at price 1 Or 2 Latoshi.
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April 15, 2016, 11:13:25 PM
 #627

So how's this going to work. No way can this be traded for 1 satoshi. Any plans for an exchange yet?
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April 15, 2016, 11:15:22 PM
 #628

So how's this going to work. No way can this be traded for 1 satoshi. Any plans for an exchange yet?

Ever heard of LTC and DOGE markets ? lol

This could very well be the new TIPS.
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April 15, 2016, 11:16:52 PM
 #629

the value is NOT an issue. people will only be able to sell for what others are willing to buy it for.


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CryptoCoderz (OP)
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April 15, 2016, 11:18:01 PM
 #630

Is this math correct?

Reverse-ICO reserve is 100,000,000,000 coins (20% of total supply), split on April 18th between everyone on the bitcoingarden thread. If 1000 people participate, that's 100,000,000 coins per person, which is equivalent to mining 2000 blocks.

This coin will never exchanges with BTC . It would exchange Just with LTC at price 1 Or 2 Latoshi.


This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often.


So how's this going to work. No way can this be traded for 1 satoshi. Any plans for an exchange yet?


This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often

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 ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
           
▓▒░░ Secure Emailing
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         ▓▒░░ Proof-of-Reliability
▓▒░░ HMQ1725
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philakone
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April 15, 2016, 11:26:55 PM
 #631

Is this math correct?

Reverse-ICO reserve is 100,000,000,000 coins (20% of total supply), split on April 18th between everyone on the bitcoingarden thread. If 1000 people participate, that's 100,000,000 coins per person, which is equivalent to mining 2000 blocks.

This coin will never exchanges with BTC . It would exchange Just with LTC at price 1 Or 2 Latoshi.


This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often.


So how's this going to work. No way can this be traded for 1 satoshi. Any plans for an exchange yet?

This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often

Hey developer, even if it's the 1000th time, hold your temper. It doesn't ever look good when a developer loses his cool Smiley Do you want to lose someone mining at 10% of your entire network hash? I'll gladly say fuck you and invest my time elsewhere if you'll be a dick. It's just as easy to quote someone already answer my question as it is to say "THIS MUST BE THE 1000TH TIME...." which puts you in a horrible light as a developer. Not all of us understand the markets like LTC and how they work. Was a very general question do you understand?

simply good business man... are you that naive to understand as developer it's your job to be respectful to people investing in your work?

You want my time and attention, earn it by being patient with everyone.
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April 15, 2016, 11:32:11 PM
 #632

Is this math correct?

Reverse-ICO reserve is 100,000,000,000 coins (20% of total supply), split on April 18th between everyone on the bitcoingarden thread. If 1000 people participate, that's 100,000,000 coins per person, which is equivalent to mining 2000 blocks.

This coin will never exchanges with BTC . It would exchange Just with LTC at price 1 Or 2 Latoshi.


This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often.


So how's this going to work. No way can this be traded for 1 satoshi. Any plans for an exchange yet?

This must the 1000th time.... THE PRICE IS NOT OUR CONCERN OR OUR GOAL FOR THE LAST TIME.

If you read practically any page within this thread you will see that we have stated this multiple times. In fact my keys on the keyboard are wearing out in apattern just staying this so often

Hey developer, even if it's the 1000th time, hold your temper. It doesn't ever look good when a developer loses his cool Smiley Do you want to lose someone mining at 10% of your entire network hash? I'll gladly say fuck you and invest my time elsewhere if you'll be a dick. It's just as easy to quote someone already answer my question as it is to say "THIS MUST BE THE 1000TH TIME...." which puts you in a horrible light as a developer. Not all of us understand the markets like LTC and how they work. Was a very general question do you understand?

You want my time and attention, earn it by being patient with everyone.

Firstly idid not lose my cool.

Secondly please read before posting

Lastly if you want to invest elsewhere, please go right ahead.

This project is astartup and in alpha... Markets are currently nut the focus at all

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 ▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
           
▓▒░░ Secure Emailing
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         ▓▒░░ Proof-of-Reliability
▓▒░░ HMQ1725
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April 15, 2016, 11:32:57 PM
 #633

Done Smiley Cya man!
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April 15, 2016, 11:35:32 PM
 #634

Done Smiley Cya man!

Thanks for stopping by.
it's regrettable that the situation degraded into cussing and fud throwing. We wish you luck elsewhere

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▓▒░░ Secure Emailing
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▓▒░░ HMQ1725
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April 15, 2016, 11:41:10 PM
 #635

Done Smiley Cya man!

Thanks for stopping by.
it's regrettable that the situation degraded into cussing and fud throwing. We wish you luck elsewhere

Haha Sorry for swearing. I'll keep mining away. Got nothing better to do on my computers. I read and caught up. Totally get it now.

Please add me to the giveaway! Just registered. I've gotta say... mining is super rewarding right now to see it in the tens of thousands every hour. LOL.
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April 15, 2016, 11:43:10 PM
 #636

Done Smiley Cya man!

Thanks for stopping by.
it's regrettable that the situation degraded into cussing and fud throwing. We wish you luck elsewhere

Haha Sorry for swearing. I'll keep mining away. Got nothing better to do on my computers. I read and caught up. Totally get it now.

Please add me to the giveaway! Just registered. I've gotta say... mining is super rewarding right now to see it in the tens of thousands every hour. LOL.

That's great to hear! Sorry for our caps and thank you for understanding.

We hope to see you around. If you need any assistance please let us know. Smiley we are here for the community which we are glad you decided to be a part of.

We will gladly add you to the give away. (Any chance of you posting proof on the giveaway thread?)

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April 15, 2016, 11:43:51 PM
 #637


Hey developer, even if it's the 1000th time, hold your temper. It doesn't ever look good when a developer loses his cool Smiley Do you want to lose someone mining at 10% of your entire network hash? I'll gladly say fuck you and invest my time elsewhere if you'll be a dick. It's just as easy to quote someone already answer my question as it is to say "THIS MUST BE THE 1000TH TIME...." which puts you in a horrible light as a developer. Not all of us understand the markets like LTC and how they work. Was a very general question do you understand?

You want my time and attention, earn it by being patient with everyone.

I would like to apologize for any confusion. we are not concerned with the high count. we recognize it is significantly larger then all other coins however we have made it this way due to our plans with the blockchain. we are going to have unique functionalities that are only available if you use coins, this will solidify the value in the long run. we understand concerns about the supposed value being on an exchange can drain significant amounts of BTC, HOWEVER people will only sell if there are buyers. the people who sell will not cause an issue for the coin. due to the need for buyers. it will balance itself out. if you do not believe in the project by all means leave we wont beg for you to stay. if you do believe in the project we would like you to trust our judgement or provide an acceptable alternative we do everything for the community. please understand our frustration with being asked the same exact thing repeatedly without end. we appreciate everyone in the community and understand the issue you may have. we would gladly answer any questions you may have.


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April 15, 2016, 11:46:18 PM
 #638

As you know, proof of work is a security mechanism--someone needs to (essentially) match the hashing power of the rest of the network, and then they can freely fork blocks, create double-spends, etc. I know you're planning to implement another security mechanism, "proof of reliability," which I haven't seen explained yet, but understand it as an improvement over proof of stake. But until that's implemented (or even afterwards, depending on your implementation), your network's security only comes from the cost (in servers) of attacking the network.

It's not so much about pushing the chain along to process transactions, but to keep those transactions locked in the chain safely.

100milion is like month+- of mining with mid range CPU. So its not that much after all also. Can you code in wallet to have ICO coins locked in for a like 365 days and then only like 10% gets released and so on.

We are considering changing up the tactics, however we must be very considerate about it as to not upset the community either, no one will want to wait a year to get their coins. Here's the kicker though. Once we go PoR, your balance will impact what you earn per block like PoS. Just in different manner

Also PoW ends just at over half way of the total count. The rest is PoR. So PoW only takes the chain just over half way

People would probably be perfectly fine with the 100 billion coins paid out over a longer period of time, perhaps for as long as you think it'll take to get new security measures in place.

Right however if you've tested a 51% attack like we have it doesn't work very well as 51% gives a CHANCE at messing with the chain which legitimate nodes tthat we hardcode in will immediately reject the attackers. Trust me we have extensively tested an attack on our private network on several test clones. Please advise if I'm missing something as I'm not Einstein but attacking achain is not as easy as it sounds.


And I'd like to clarify I'm not trying to attack your project or anything--I'm excited about it, I love the dev activity, the roadmap is interesting.

What kind of heuristics do your legitimate nodes use to recognize attacker blocks? Is it a checkpointing system? Even if you do have nodes that can recognize these blocks somehow, unless it's actively communicating to the network to ignore the blocks (like signing a message as some form of authority that denounces the block, or something of the like), passively refusing to propagate the blocks won't stop a well-connected network from forking.

Attacking a chain isn't necessarily easy, but I wouldn't imagine it being much harder than running your own pool, blocking the daemon's outgoing traffic, mining a bunch of blocks faster than the rest of the network, and bringing it back online to propagate.

You're correct that 51% gives a chance of messing with the chain, not a guarantee. Variability could throw a wrench in it, but over the long term a slightly-higher-than-50% hashrate would outstrip the chain, and the attacker could simply wait until variability works in their favor to bring their attacking node(s) back online. The attacker has time on his/her side, because they decide when to submit their growing chain to the network.

Imagine you're attacking a network with a private pool. The legitimate network is at block 10,000 (which includes the transaction you want to double-spend), with 100 MH/s of mining power. You bring 102 MH/s online for your private pool. The legitimate pool has no knowledge of your private pool. In the beginning, due to random chance, the legitimate network gets ahead, and hits block 10,010 when your private pool has only gotten to block 10,008. You bring a bit more mining power online (or just wait for the inevitable swing of randomness), and by block 10,030 on the legitimate network, your private pool has hit block 10,032. You bring your node back online, the network forks back 32 blocks. What if you were still behind at block 10,030? Maybe you'd be ahead at block 10,040, and do even more damage. The naive solution to this is simply have peers refuse to fork past more than x blocks, but that can become dangerous if the network does, during normal operation, get that far out of sync due to something like a protocol disagreement (something like a BIP update gone awry), since the network would permanently divide into two (or more) fragments. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a user who's providing all of the hashing power--it could be an existing, popular pool who decides to "go rogue," feed bad data to miners, and use them to fork the network.  

Let's now say your network's seed nodes have the ability to detect this, and not propagate the 32 malicious blocks. Unless all of the nodes are connected to one another through your controlled nodes, those blocks will still propagate on the network. Basically the litmus test here is whether the network would continue to run if your seed nodes went down. If so, then passive refusal won't prevent the attack. Now, in the event that your nodes are actively managing the network--either by signing a message that checkpoints blocks as an authority that the rest of the network trusts, or by some other similar mechanism that either marks blocks as guaranteed-legitimate or certainly-illegitimate. Mechanisms like this would also raise concerns about centralization and the network being brittle and subject to break during non-malicious but unpredicted conditions.

I have no idea how your proof-of-reliability mechanism will function when launched (do you have any literature on it to read, or a brief summary anywhere?), but for now I'll just discuss it as if it is proof of stake, although I understand you're planning to make significant improvements/modifications on top of that protocol.

Proof of stake introduces an interesting complication to network forking, but also creates a new attack vector. Proof of stake (as it traditionally is implemented) gives priority/weight to transactions which consume larger quantities of coin-days. As such, an attacker could buy a large quantity of coin on an exchange and transfer it to addresses they own, wait until they reach max stake age, and then attack the network with significantly less than 51% of the total network float. The amount it would require depends on how active other people are with staking and how much outstanding coin age will be consumed by others legitimately while they attempt their fork, but under certain conditions such a fork could be successful with a quite small portion of the network float.

Additionally, when combined with proof-of-work, proof-of-stake blocks could be the extra 'icing on the cake' to push their network power over 51%--stake weight saved in reserve to use if variability doesn't work in the attacker's favor. Even non-malicious but greedy nodes (who spend time offline until reaching maximum stake age on lots of transactions, then coming online) could cause grief for a laggy network. One proposal for eliminating (or greatly reducing) this issue is to require that the blockchain is 'layered' (something like a minimum number of proof-of-stake and proof-of-work blocks in any given 'frame' of contiguous blocks). This would at least require an attacker to have mining power AND stake weight. Other solutions involve coin-age being only used to calculate reward but not "priority" (in the form of a greater chance of mining a block with x coins).

Anyhow I'm rambling, but if you want to discuss the types of attacks you've tested that your network has been able to thwart on testnet, or the security features your hard-coded nodes have, I'm all ears. But exchanges (a primary entry point for new users to get involved) are hesitant to list coins that have particularly low difficulties, because of the responsibility they have for user balances, which even non-malicious forks could disrupt.

And at the end of the day, if miners don't expect to at least break even on their efforts, they're unlikely to mine. Which makes all of the above attacks much easier. I understand price not being your primary goal--and that's a great approach to crypto-currency in general, and means you care about development, features, long-term support, etc. But a secure network is the foundation for the entire project, so there needs to be some acceptable security mechanism. Whether that be some semi-centralized checkpointing solution, or some alternate miner incentive (like a 'colored coin' or address reputation to give them voting power on something important), or your proof-of-reliability, this is certainly something to think about before those 100B coins hit the markets.  

VeriBlock: Securing The World's Blockchains Using Bitcoin
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April 15, 2016, 11:49:35 PM
 #639

Done Smiley Cya man!

Thanks for stopping by.
it's regrettable that the situation degraded into cussing and fud throwing. We wish you luck elsewhere

Haha Sorry for swearing. I'll keep mining away. Got nothing better to do on my computers. I read and caught up. Totally get it now.

Please add me to the giveaway! Just registered. I've gotta say... mining is super rewarding right now to see it in the tens of thousands every hour. LOL.

That's great to hear! Sorry for our caps and thank you for understanding.

We hope to see you around. If you need any assistance please let us know. Smiley we are here for the community which we are glad you decided to be a part of.

We will gladly add you to the give away. (Any chance of you posting proof on the giveaway thread?)

http://bitcoingarden.tk/forum/index.php?topic=7403.225

I posted on the bitcoin garden page.
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April 15, 2016, 11:53:11 PM
 #640

Done Smiley Cya man!

Thanks for stopping by.
it's regrettable that the situation degraded into cussing and fud throwing. We wish you luck elsewhere

Haha Sorry for swearing. I'll keep mining away. Got nothing better to do on my computers. I read and caught up. Totally get it now.

Please add me to the giveaway! Just registered. I've gotta say... mining is super rewarding right now to see it in the tens of thousands every hour. LOL.

That's great to hear! Sorry for our caps and thank you for understanding.

We hope to see you around. If you need any assistance please let us know. Smiley we are here for the community which we are glad you decided to be a part of.

We will gladly add you to the give away. (Any chance of you posting proof on the giveaway thread?)

http://bitcoingarden.tk/forum/index.php?topic=7403.225

I posted on the bitcoin garden page. Let's mine the crap out of this guys.

Awesome thanks for participating!





@vorksholk -

That is one hell of a lesson right there. You've also given me personally some things to maul over.

We will begin attacking our test coins in manners described and continue security development.

Thank you for sharing that valuable information and spending your time in doing all as that I imagine required some effort to put as well as your did.

Again Thank you.

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