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Author Topic: Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services  (Read 292341 times)
TheButterZone
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August 28, 2016, 09:34:33 PM
 #561

yeah...it is very risky to transact from paypal...for me if posible i will use a paypal dummy account to receive the money then transfer to main account before sending the BTC amount.

And then PayPal pulls the money out of your main account, through the dummy account, all the way back to the chargeback.

As far as I know , PayPal never does that. The only thing they would do is take the balance from your account , If you don't have any then your balance will become negative , once you deposit an amount , It will be sent to whoever chargebacked the transaction.


Years-long veterans of #bitcoin-otc will tell you about the domino PayPal chargebacks if you don't believe this one.

Ex:
Chargebacker sends to dummy account with $0 in it
Dummy account sends 100% to main account, dummy account returns to $0 balance
Main account either withdraws to bank or leaves it on PayPal balance or otherwise spends it

Chargebacker chargebacks
Dummy account with $0 goes negative
Main account either goes negative, PayPal balance is sent back to the chargebacker, or in some cases, the bank account they withdrew to is debited back to the chargebacker

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August 29, 2016, 02:39:39 PM
 #562

Wish I would have seen this thread a year ago. I was burned by someone on ebay/paypal for 2 bitcoins. Wont use paypal again.
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September 10, 2016, 02:29:47 PM
 #563


PayPal's Dirty Tricks
http://www.moneymakergroup.com/Paypal-s-Dirty-Secrets-t511388.html

Stay Away from PayPal.
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September 23, 2016, 12:09:34 PM
 #564

Can you send funds from a PayPal account without verifying your ID or address?
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October 06, 2016, 10:13:20 PM
 #565

thank you very much for this information
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October 08, 2016, 04:26:50 AM
 #566

Can you send funds from a PayPal account without verifying your ID or address?

It should be easier for you to google that than to ask here, but yeah, read here

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October 16, 2016, 10:20:48 AM
 #567

reversal is important for a sender
valuable one
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October 21, 2016, 02:22:53 AM
 #568

thanks for advice nice  Cool

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October 21, 2016, 10:36:34 PM
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there are obstacles anything with paypal?

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holydarkness
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October 26, 2016, 05:14:14 PM
 #570


there are obstacles anything with paypal?

If your transaction happen between you and yourself or between you and someone that you extremely trusted (like your family, close friends, or.. yourself) then it is fine. The main concern on paypal transaction is the paypal owner can cancel his transfer anytime while the bitcoin owner can not. So, there is a possibility where the bitcoin owner had send his amount to the paypal owner but the paypal owner cancelled his paypal payment, resulting the bitcoin owner being scammed and lost a lot.

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November 10, 2016, 09:06:23 PM
 #571

Good read. I've read many articles about the chargebacks, so I just avoid paypal in general.
What i've realized

If the sender sends the money from a credit card and not a balance, the chances of them being able to chargeback are almost 100%
If the sender sends it as family and friends from a balance, they can't charge it back
If the sender sends it as a good / service, they can charge it back through PayPal with a high chance of them winning

There are plenty of threads on community <dot> ebay <dot> com about sellers getting screwed left and right
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November 23, 2016, 07:12:51 AM
 #572

If the sender sends it as family and friends from a balance, they can't charge it back

Wrong.

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November 23, 2016, 07:27:14 AM
 #573

From what i know to avoid a chargeback being successful is only by either using a vcc and vba to verify the account and either move the funds to another account after receiving them or withdrawing the funds to a different account not linked to that paypal, it has worked for me for the past 6 years without any issues.

But you will always have to create a new pp account after the chargeback, and from what i saw is that i always use the same details, name, address, including my ID and paypal never has a problem with that

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November 23, 2016, 09:15:06 PM
 #574

If the sender sends it as family and friends from a balance, they can't charge it back

Wrong.

Yep, there is possibility of charge back when someone send as friends and family. It is more complicated, because have to proove that this transfer was not authorized. I don't know exactly how they can do that, but it can happen when for example someone hack account and make transfer - it is not authorized operation and can be charged back.

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November 23, 2016, 10:09:16 PM
 #575

Money sent through PayPal and any other money transfer service that accepts credit cards can be easily reversed by the sender, even after several weeks. Therefore, you should only accept PayPal in trades with people you trust very highly.

This is why newbies are not likely to sell their PayPal USD for bitcoins successfully.

Some other services that are not totally safe:
- Bank transfers (ACH, etc.) except wire transfers
- Most gift cards.
- Moneypak
- AlertPay
- Paysafecards
- Dwolla
- Western Union (they reportedly will sue the recipient to recover money in some cases)
OP, Money gram is not not included in your some other services that are not totally safe list. Does that mean Money gram is ok cos I want to sell some few coin thru localbitcoin and I want to receive the money using Western Union or Money Gram.

You might exchange your reversible payment for another like LR here: http://exchangezone.com/
Is the site safe and trustworth cos some exchanger site end up as a scam site.

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December 02, 2016, 08:46:06 AM
 #576

Is there any safest method then?
cyberarmy786
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December 04, 2016, 06:04:22 PM
 #577

yes you are right so everyone should think before take payment through paypal

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December 08, 2016, 09:33:43 AM
 #578

Here are the exact chargeback rules of PayPal. What I do not know is, even we can prove that a certain transactions of Bitcoins are succesfully done, PayPal might not reverse the charegeback.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/chargebacks

Why do chargebacks occur?
There are a few reasons why a buyer would request a chargeback:•An unauthorised payment was made with the buyer's card

•The buyer didn't receive the item that was paid for
•There were errors in processing the transaction
•The item does not match its description
The maximum time a buyer has to file a chargeback with their credit card company is typically 120 days after the expected delivery of the agreed goods or services. Certain exceptions may apply.

How do you dispute a chargeback?
If you wish to dispute a chargeback, you will need to provide certain information and evidence depending on the case. Below are the two most common reasons for chargebacks and the information you need to provide in each case:

1. The buyer didn’t receive the item
You must provide either:•A tracking number as provided by Royal Mail Recorded Delivery and Parcel Force 24
•Proof of a refund – this can be evidence from your PayPal account, the back and front copy of a cheque, or a money order used to reimburse the buyer

2. Unauthorised use of credit card
You should provide:•Tracking number for delivery of the item
•Proof of a refund – this can be evidence from your PayPal account, the back and front copy of a cheque, or a money order used to reimburse the buyer
•Any communication from the buyer, such as emails or positive feedback on eBay
•Any contracts signed or information on the sent item
•Date that the item was sent and the address it was sent to
•For intangible items or subscriptions – any information regarding the item or service
In these and all other chargeback cases, the more relevant information you can provide, the better your chance of reversing the chargeback.

Tips to help avoid chargebacks
•Track your delivery: Always use a postal method that provides online tracking and proof of delivery, which you can send to the buyer as soon as you have a tracking number
•Be accurate: Describe items in as much detail as possible, so buyers know exactly what to expect and cannot claim that an item is 'significantly not as described'
•Know your customer: Ask for more information such as their full name and address, get in touch with them and review eBay feedback (if available)
•Deliver on time: Always post your items in a timely manner - where possible, you should aim to dispatch your items within seven days of receiving payment
•Be transparent: Make sure that buyers know about your returns policy
•Be responsive: Don't let buyers feel that their problems are unresolved
•Post carefully: Avoid posting to an address different to the one provided by PayPal
•High-risk countries: We advise extra caution when posting to Macedonia, Lebanon, Ukraine, Lithuania, Nigeria, Romania, Pakistan, Bulgaria and Indonesia.
•Check ID: If a buyer collects an item in person, ask them to bring along proof of identity. If another person is collecting the item, they should also bring proof of identity and a signed note from the buyer authorising them to collect on their behalf. Note: Payments received in person are not covered under the Seller Protection policy.

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December 09, 2016, 03:16:16 AM
 #579

Here are the exact chargeback rules of PayPal. What I do not know is, even we can prove that a certain transactions of Bitcoins are succesfully done, PayPal might not reverse the charegeback.


BTC being a digital item, good luck with that. Look into Paypal's digital items policy.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full

Ineligible items and transactions

Your sale is not eligible for coverage under PayPal’s Seller Protection program if:

    It involves intangible, non-physical, items, including digital goods, and services.  Digital goods are delivered and used in an electronic format, like a song delivered online or through a mobile application.
    The buyer claims (either with us or their card issuer) that the item you sent isn’t what was ordered (referred to as a “Significantly Not as Described” claim).
    It involves an item that PayPal determines, in its sole discretion, is a counterfeit item.
    It involves an item that you deliver in person, including in connection with a payment made in your store location.
    It involves sales that are not processed either through a buyer’s PayPal account or a guest checkout transaction.  For example, if the sale was made using the PayPal Payments Pro/VT product, PayPal business payments or using PayPal Here, then it is not eligible for coverage.
    It involves items equivalent to cash including gift cards.

When the subject of buying BTC with Paypal comes up, I often remember this: 

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

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January 10, 2017, 04:23:36 PM
 #580

wy are gift cards not safe?
once you redeem them what might the problem be?

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