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Author Topic: Beware of PayPal and other reversible transfer services  (Read 243712 times)
TheButterZone
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April 20, 2016, 06:12:17 PM
 #501

When trading paypal you need to have a MM account which you can use to send funds to your real account, it makes scamming very difficult and you can  make a PP account for $10

Which type of account is MM account, how does it works and when you said PP are you refering to paypal account?
A MM account is a middle man paypal account you use to receive the funds and send to your main account.

Then PayPal domino chargebacks your main account, then the MM account, all the way back to the chargebacker.

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

^ Needs to read the post directly above before posting.

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April 20, 2016, 08:20:53 PM
 #502

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

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April 21, 2016, 12:32:33 AM
 #503

Quoted (and Archived) for future reference... http://archive.is/D6ilP

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

You would have to be very clear in your OP that you were doing this method, otherwise you could be accused of self escrow or similar.

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April 22, 2016, 05:56:33 AM
 #504

Quoted (and Archived) for future reference... http://archive.is/D6ilP

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

You would have to be very clear in your OP that you were doing this method, otherwise you could be accused of self escrow or similar.

I think you misunderstood what they're trying to say: Have two PayPal accounts. Have the buyer or seller send to your throwaway account and then send from throwaway account to your other account. So if PayPal is charged back, PayPal can only put your throwaway account in the negative unless they reverse the funds sent. PayPal would eventually catch on though so can't say if this method would actually work more then once or twice.
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April 22, 2016, 05:33:26 PM
 #505

TheButterZone:

I just scroll past big letters and don't read (especially when they/you edit your post 36 hours later...)

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April 22, 2016, 08:53:24 PM
 #506

TheButterZone:

I just scroll past big letters and don't read (especially when they/you edit your post 36 hours later...)

Did you scroll past the same exact sequence of letters when they were normal-sized 36 hours prior?

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April 23, 2016, 01:24:28 AM
 #507

TheButterZone:

I just scroll past big letters and don't read (especially when they/you edit your post 36 hours later...)

Did you scroll past the same exact sequence of letters when they were normal-sized 36 hours prior?

Not sure, what did they say when they were normal size?

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April 23, 2016, 06:11:11 AM
 #508

When trading paypal you need to have a MM account which you can use to send funds to your real account, it makes scamming very difficult and you can  make a PP account for $10

Which type of account is MM account, how does it works and when you said PP are you refering to paypal account?
A MM account is a middle man paypal account you use to receive the funds and send to your main account.

Then PayPal domino chargebacks your main account, then the MM account, all the way back to the chargebacker.

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

^ Needs to read the post directly above before posting.
When paypa does a charge back it only works for the first account the funds were sent to and not the 2nd account, it's obvious you never used more than 1 PP account coz of you paranoia of everyone is here to scam people when using paypal. I have been using TBN & BHW for a couple of years and there paypal is the number 1 currency, I have had a few charge backs but since I never use my main account to accept funds it has never had any issues or ever lost a single cent due to charge backs.

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April 23, 2016, 07:04:20 AM
 #509

When trading paypal you need to have a MM account which you can use to send funds to your real account, it makes scamming very difficult and you can  make a PP account for $10

Which type of account is MM account, how does it works and when you said PP are you refering to paypal account?
A MM account is a middle man paypal account you use to receive the funds and send to your main account.

Then PayPal domino chargebacks your main account, then the MM account, all the way back to the chargebacker.

Middle man paypal account can be of your own i believe. You just create an account and use that to receive the funds and transfer to your main account so a charge back can not happen to lock your account. If it does then it happens to the MM account and that is a throw away account anyways since they can not trace it back to you.

^ Needs to read the post directly above before posting.
When paypa does a charge back it only works for the first account the funds were sent to and not the 2nd account, it's obvious you never used more than 1 PP account coz of you paranoia of everyone is here to scam people when using paypal. I have been using TBN & BHW for a couple of years and there paypal is the number 1 currency, I have had a few charge backs but since I never use my main account to accept funds it has never had any issues or ever lost a single cent due to charge backs.

Veteran #bitcoin-otc WoT members had an order of magnitude more gravitas when they told of domino chargebacks. Sorry, not sorry.

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April 29, 2016, 08:49:49 PM
 #510

When trading paypal you need to have a MM account which you can use to send funds to your real account, it makes scamming very difficult and you can  make a PP account for $10

Which type of account is MM account, how does it works and when you said PP are you refering to paypal account?
A MM account is a middle man paypal account you use to receive the funds and send to your main account.

I understand what you mean now. Nevertheless, all this is not best suitor for trading and there must a trustworthy company or site where man can buy and sell btc thru paypal payment, isn't it?

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May 11, 2016, 01:45:46 PM
 #511

It is good to have this kind of information for this is a big help for everyone most especially for active users of bitcoin transactions that people are not aware of or do not know the person wherein they are going to have an exchange of bitcoin or money transactions. Lately I been seeing some issues of people sent out their money over a person to buy bitcoins are selling items and services wherein they are not being paid is so bad yet no chances of getting them back. I am surprised that western union is included in a transactions no wonder for there are some instances that scam happens in this area.

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May 13, 2016, 09:13:03 PM
 #512

It is good to have this kind of information for this is a big help for everyone most especially for active users of bitcoin transactions that people are not aware of or do not know the person wherein they are going to have an exchange of bitcoin or money transactions. Lately I been seeing some issues of people sent out their money over a person to buy bitcoins are selling items and services wherein they are not being paid is so bad yet no chances of getting them back. I am surprised that western union is included in a transactions no wonder for there are some instances that scam happens in this area.

You're right but after I thought about what Fourge said it will be a hell of work to find an MM account per each transaction.

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May 17, 2016, 07:43:10 AM
 #513

Can anybody elaborate why paysafe cards aren't safe if I buy it like this:

Trader sends me paysafecard, I enter paysafecard in whatever system I need the money from the paysafecard,
then I know the amount was correct and I pay the trader my bitcoin. Of course I empty the paysafecard so the trader
cannot use the PIN himself.

This cannot be reversed, can it?
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May 18, 2016, 01:42:56 PM
 #514

Can anybody elaborate why paysafe cards aren't safe if I buy it like this:

Trader sends me paysafecard, I enter paysafecard in whatever system I need the money from the paysafecard,
then I know the amount was correct and I pay the trader my bitcoin. Of course I empty the paysafecard so the trader
cannot use the PIN himself.

This cannot be reversed, can it?

I haven't used paysafecards myself, but I think the scam originates in the card is empty when you get it.  (and to rub salt into the wound, you will have sent the other person your BitCoins first, so no refund and the trader (if they hang around) can say you emptied the card).

I *think* that's how it goes...

I'm not sure Escrows are going to want to handle cards, or rather verify they have credit on them, rather just hang onto the BitCoins until the trader(s) verifies they have payment.

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May 18, 2016, 05:06:46 PM
 #515

Can anybody elaborate why paysafe cards aren't safe if I buy it like this:

Trader sends me paysafecard, I enter paysafecard in whatever system I need the money from the paysafecard,
then I know the amount was correct and I pay the trader my bitcoin. Of course I empty the paysafecard so the trader
cannot use the PIN himself.

This cannot be reversed, can it?

I suppose that's secure enough but the trader will probably won't accept sending the paysafecard first so you will have to use an escrow.
It won't be an issue since Paysafecard allow you to check the balance from a CODE : https://www.paysafecard.com/en-us/check-balance/ so once again ... I guess it's secure enough If you spend the funds fast .

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May 23, 2016, 10:43:55 PM
 #516

I'm not quite sure why PayPal should be a risk for the buyer?
The buyer pays with paypal, and has 45 days to claim a chargeback against the seller - regardless of whether he actually received the coins or not.
So this is a clear risk for the seller, but the buyer has nothing to lose ?!


I understand what you mean now. Nevertheless, all this is not best suitor for trading and there must a trustworthy company or site where man can buy and sell btc thru paypal payment, isn't it?

We are a currency exchange that works with paypal, we have been around since 2012 and just re-launched our website and services. Smiley
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May 24, 2016, 12:20:22 AM
 #517

The entire point of this post is a bit confused to me. Chargeback on paypal may happen only if you funded the purchase using your bank or credit card.
If you funded the purchase using your paypal balance, instead, you have to be carefull because Digital Goods and Money to friend and family CANT be charged back.
If you sold physical goods and have good proofs of delivery (or refunds if that was the case), you are pretty safe about chargebacks too (provided a fair sale/auction)
Reference: https://www.paypal.com/en/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside

IF anyone of you need more explanations and references, you can PM me, as being a power seller on ebay with more then 20k transactions, i faced up a lot of chargebacks attempts...and i only have ONE paypal account. And no: the domino chargeback wont happen, paypal only charges the seller account until the dispute is solved Wink
~RR

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May 24, 2016, 07:50:21 AM
 #518

The entire point of this post is a bit confused to me. Chargeback on paypal may happen only if you funded the purchase using your bank or credit card.
If you funded the purchase using your paypal balance, instead, you have to be carefull because Digital Goods and Money to friend and family CANT be charged back.
If you sold physical goods and have good proofs of delivery (or refunds if that was the case), you are pretty safe about chargebacks too (provided a fair sale/auction)
Reference: https://www.paypal.com/en/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside

IF anyone of you need more explanations and references, you can PM me, as being a power seller on ebay with more then 20k transactions, i faced up a lot of chargebacks attempts...and i only have ONE paypal account. And no: the domino chargeback wont happen, paypal only charges the seller account until the dispute is solved Wink
~RR

You should go over to the Currency Exchange https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0 and put that into practice by selling some BitCoins... #JustSaying ...  Roll Eyes

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May 24, 2016, 07:52:12 AM
 #519

The entire point of this post is a bit confused to me. Chargeback on paypal may happen only if you funded the purchase using your bank or credit card.
If you funded the purchase using your paypal balance, instead, you have to be carefull because Digital Goods and Money to friend and family CANT be charged back.
If you sold physical goods and have good proofs of delivery (or refunds if that was the case), you are pretty safe about chargebacks too (provided a fair sale/auction)
Reference: https://www.paypal.com/en/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside

IF anyone of you need more explanations and references, you can PM me, as being a power seller on ebay with more then 20k transactions, i faced up a lot of chargebacks attempts...and i only have ONE paypal account. And no: the domino chargeback wont happen, paypal only charges the seller account until the dispute is solved Wink
~RR

You should go over to the Currency Exchange https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0 and put that into practice by selling some BitCoins... #JustSaying ...  Roll Eyes

and then understand how many misconceptions you have.. #JustAddedToTimelord2067'sSaying Cheesy

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May 24, 2016, 11:51:47 AM
 #520

The entire point of this post is a bit confused to me. Chargeback on paypal may happen only if you funded the purchase using your bank or credit card.
If you funded the purchase using your paypal balance, instead, you have to be carefull because Digital Goods and Money to friend and family CANT be charged back.
If you sold physical goods and have good proofs of delivery (or refunds if that was the case), you are pretty safe about chargebacks too (provided a fair sale/auction)
Reference: https://www.paypal.com/en/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/seller/ChargebackRisk-outside

IF anyone of you need more explanations and references, you can PM me, as being a power seller on ebay with more then 20k transactions, i faced up a lot of chargebacks attempts...and i only have ONE paypal account. And no: the domino chargeback wont happen, paypal only charges the seller account until the dispute is solved Wink
~RR

You should go over to the Currency Exchange https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=53.0 and put that into practice by selling some BitCoins... #JustSaying ...  Roll Eyes

and then understand how many misconceptions you have.. #JustAddedToTimelord2067'sSaying Cheesy
No lol  i not gonna touch that!
But seriously i never seen a domino effect of a chargeback...and again with some thousands of ebay transactions it happened to see chargeback....ONLY the seller account got the effect. But yeah if anyone have confirmed domino chargebacks i would be interested to know more and learn how to protect myself better. But please i think only proven and directly experienced issues can help...no FUD  Wink

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