Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

[1714222599]

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[1714222599]

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[1714222599]

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[ChartBuddy]

[ChartBuddy]

[billington.mark]

boom

[joesmoe2012]

So, does this suggest that since accumulation is going up, the overall bitcoin market has net USD inflow, just that most of the new USD is going in through Bitstamp? i really don't know

Are there actually any credible reports of people successfully withdrawing large amounts of USD from MtGox yet? Or is this still an issue?

I haven't seen a confirmed one yet.

localbitcoins seems to follow gox for pricing, that's a way to pull off the bitstamp arb.

at localbitcoins you can set your own prices. I just today set mine to MtGox+0% and I buy at MtGox-10%. Could as well pick another exchange with different fees pegged to it.

Yes, but unless your licensed, you're comitting a financial crime (yeah really) by selling on LocalBitCoins, and if you're receiving wires for doing it, you're leaving tons of traces in the federal govt's systems of your crimes.

[vokain]

i don't get why it's okay to sell a speculative item like say, a trading card or an online game item, but selling a bitcoin is so drastically different?

i suppose you have a lot more volume when working with bitcoins

[joesmoe2012]

i don't get why it's okay to sell a speculative item like say, a trading card or an online game item, but selling a bitcoin is so drastically different?

i suppose you have a lot more volume when working with bitcoins

I'm not sure how japanese law sees it, but US law treats "Virtual Convertible Currencies" and Magic Cards differently so far as regulation is concerned.

[ChartBuddy]

[ChartBuddy]

[BitPirate]

So, does this suggest that since accumulation is going up, the overall bitcoin market has net USD inflow, just that most of the new USD is going in through Bitstamp? i really don't know

Are there actually any credible reports of people successfully withdrawing large amounts of USD from MtGox yet? Or is this still an issue?

I haven't seen a confirmed one yet.

localbitcoins seems to follow gox for pricing, that's a way to pull off the bitstamp arb.

at localbitcoins you can set your own prices. I just today set mine to MtGox+0% and I buy at MtGox-10%. Could as well pick another exchange with different fees pegged to it.

Yes, but unless your licensed, you're comitting a financial crime (yeah really) by selling on LocalBitCoins, and if you're receiving wires for doing it, you're leaving tons of traces in the federal govt's systems of your crimes.

I don't think that's strictly true -- the letter and spirit of the FinCEN regulations appears to be aimed at regulating the exchange sector, not OTC trades. It specifically states that buying and selling virtual currencies is OK, but generating and running exchange business for fiat is not.

If it is a grey area, it should be tested.

[ChartBuddy]

[joesmoe2012]

So, does this suggest that since accumulation is going up, the overall bitcoin market has net USD inflow, just that most of the new USD is going in through Bitstamp? i really don't know

Are there actually any credible reports of people successfully withdrawing large amounts of USD from MtGox yet? Or is this still an issue?

I haven't seen a confirmed one yet.

localbitcoins seems to follow gox for pricing, that's a way to pull off the bitstamp arb.

at localbitcoins you can set your own prices. I just today set mine to MtGox+0% and I buy at MtGox-10%. Could as well pick another exchange with different fees pegged to it.

Yes, but unless your licensed, you're comitting a financial crime (yeah really) by selling on LocalBitCoins, and if you're receiving wires for doing it, you're leaving tons of traces in the federal govt's systems of your crimes.

I don't think that's strictly true -- the letter and spirit of the FinCEN regulations appears to be aimed at regulating the exchange sector, not OTC trades. It specifically states that buying and selling virtual currencies is OK, but generating and running exchange business for fiat is not.

If it is a grey area, it should be tested.

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

[ChartBuddy]

[StarenseN]

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

AFAIK, Fincen paper is just a "guidance" at this moment. No Laws for the moment, so no obligation.

[Traktion]

i don't get why it's okay to sell a speculative item like say, a trading card or an online game item, but selling a bitcoin is so drastically different?

i suppose you have a lot more volume when working with bitcoins

Statism frequently ends up using arbitrary threats. There is little in the way of principles guiding such laws - it's just 'might is right', with some lobbying thrown in.

[joesmoe2012]

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

AFAIK, Fincen paper is just a "guidance" at this moment. No Laws for the moment, so no obligation.

Correct, the guidance is not a law, however it means that bitcoin is covered under the already existing laws.

I digress though, maybe this isn't a discussion for here, but over in the Legal subforum (there's already multiple for the same topic under way).

[marcus_of_augustus]

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

Do you know how unworkably absurd that sounds to real people? ... and yet you parrot it like it should mean something deep to someone.

If you are playing with virtual currencies on the internet you need to be registered with the Federal govt. ... uh-huh. Is that like in the rules for the MMPOG game or something, like the virtual in-world Federal govt. or the Galactic Federation Council of Elders?

I'm sure you've got better things to be doing with your time than reminding everyone of all their obligations under the massive set of federal laws now at their disposal. I bet you could find someone doing something wrong every minute of every day and you could talk to in a stern voice ... "Do you realise that it is black and white ... blah-blah-blah ... tune out.... illegal?" Is that your goal in life?

[Traktion]

So, is this a proper breakout over 100 or just another temporary blip before the next plunge?

If 100 doesn't hold, it will be interesting to see if we fall back to above or below 90 (EDIT: changed from Bitstamp value!). If it does hold, it could mean we are entering a bull market.

I'm standing by my bet of us still being in a bear market for a few more months yet, but I'm finding it hard to predict where it is going to go currently. Perhaps that is because we are getting close to the bottom (or have passed it!  )?


EDIT: BTW, take a look at the chart from mid-June. 100 was a support for two rallies which failed to breach 115. 115 was the support level for much of May.

[Tzupy]

Without the whale buyer to move the market up, we may be slowly going down for a while.
It's possible that the whale buyer does not want to buy above 100, so he may wait for the price to drop.

[joesmoe2012]

It's not a grey area in the US, very black and white. If you exchange USD for Virtual Convertible Currency (i.e. Bitcoin) you are obligated to register with the Federal Government (the FinCEN Guideline).

Do you know how unworkably absurd that sounds to real people? ... and yet you parrot it like it should mean something deep to someone.

If you are playing with virtual currencies on the internet you need to be registered with the Federal govt. ... uh-huh. Is that like in the rules for the MMPOG game or something, like the virtual in-world Federal govt. or the Galactic Federation Council of Elders?

I'm sure you've got better things to be doing with your time than reminding everyone of all their obligations under the massive set of federal laws now at their disposal. I bet you could find someone doing something wrong every minute of every day and you could talk to in a stern voice ... "Do you realise that it is black and white ... blah-blah-blah ... tune out.... illegal?" Is that your goal in life?

I use to sell on localbitcoins but no longer due because i'm worried of the legality of it. I've also attended a few bitcoin conferences where these regulations in specific were discussed.

Not saying I agree with this bs though...

So, is this a proper breakout over 100 or just another temporary blip before the next plunge?

If 100 doesn't hold, it will be interesting to see if we fall back to above or below 80. If it does hold, it could mean we are entering a bull market.

I'm standing by my bet of us still being in a bear market for a few more months yet, but I'm finding it hard to predict where it is going to go currently. Perhaps that is because we are getting close to the bottom (or have passed it!  )?

I hope we're headed back to the 80's, I've sold most my bitcoins for the time being.