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Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 26370603 times)
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hdbuck
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September 11, 2015, 09:52:50 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2015, 10:22:58 PM by hdbuck

coindesk's centralization scaling conference:












More seriously..


Bitcoin's value proposition lies in its fixed inflation. No number of dollars meeting the market can increase the supply schedule. Trilema clearly explains:

There's pretty much literally nothing those extra dollars nobody wants can do to increase the Bitcoin supply. It's very, very inelastic, and consequently the only stability point is when equilibrium is reached. Two billion dollars divided by 600`000 Bitcoins comes to three thousand dollars and change per Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is faced with hitting another inelastic limit in its maximum transaction volume. Consumers have come to expect to get what they demand – "the customer is always right". As such consumers have begun to revolt due to them not getting their demand of Bitcoin competing with Visa or as Trilema predicted in 2013:

one of them is that consumers revolt, entrepreneurs intervene, before the end of 2015 there's about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average. The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the "ordinary person". Hedge funds and banks (the ones a little ahead of using Excel) that trade in this murky complexity make a killing and become the principal driver of economic growth worldwide. Not only is the consumer about as screwed as is currently the case, but to everyone's benefit he has just been clearly proven yet again that revolt = being fucked in the ass harder, longer, with a thicker implement with sharper barbs on it. Also conveniently, the thing to revolt at has become much more vague and intangible. On the balance of probabilities this would seem the most likely outcome, strictly because history unerringly flows in that direction which most cruelly rapes the "average person".

Many consumers have exclaimed they will leave Bitcoin to go to an altcoin which suits their "needs" if they don't get their way in Bitcoin being perverted into a system to compete with Visa. What they don't realize is the consequences they will face if they choose this option.




source: http://qntra.net



http://qntra.net/2015/09/mit-sacrifices-rag-in-xtcoin-push/  Lips sealed
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September 11, 2015, 10:10:43 PM



obviously, .... bitfinex needs to keep prices goxpumped to relieve the stress of all those leverage longs possibly closing which might accidentally cause the 'too big to fail" exchange to meltdown. 240+ is a good price for goxx exchanges right now. that why the price doesnt go down in case bitfinex might have to shutdown again and check every ones balances.
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September 11, 2015, 10:22:04 PM


Many consumers have exclaimed they will leave Bitcoin to go to an altcoin which suits their "needs" if they don't get their way in Bitcoin being perverted into a system to compete with Visa. What they don't realize is the consequences they will face if they choose this option.




full article: http://qntra.net/2015/09/consumers-begin-revolting-bitcoin-is-not-visa/

And what are the consequences?
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September 11, 2015, 10:23:13 PM


And what are the consequences?


Syphilis.
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September 11, 2015, 10:23:27 PM
Last edit: September 11, 2015, 10:38:32 PM by hdbuck


Many consumers have exclaimed they will leave Bitcoin to go to an altcoin which suits their "needs" if they don't get their way in Bitcoin being perverted into a system to compete with Visa. What they don't realize is the consequences they will face if they choose this option.




full article: http://qntra.net/2015/09/consumers-begin-revolting-bitcoin-is-not-visa/

And what are the consequences?




read much?



before the end of 2015 there's about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average.

The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the "ordinary person".

Hedge funds and banks (the ones a little ahead of using Excel) that trade in this murky complexity make a killing and become the principal driver of economic growth worldwide.

Not only is the consumer about as screwed as is currently the case, but to everyone's benefit he has just been clearly proven yet again that revolt = being fucked in the ass harder, longer, with a thicker implement with sharper barbs on it.

Also conveniently, the thing to revolt at has become much more vague and intangible. On the balance of probabilities this would seem the most likely outcome, strictly because history unerringly flows in that direction which most cruelly rapes the "average person".






edit: maybe i should i add colors too?


edit edit: how about a picture? you like pictures, right?

Andre#
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September 11, 2015, 10:29:29 PM

Core still winning:
Quote
Poll
Question:   Core Vs XT
XT   - 124 (29.5%)
Core   - 209 (49.8%)
IDK   - 87 (20.7%)

This is what matters: http://xtnodes.com/

Look at the pie at the bottom right.

Agree, XT is going nowhere except down until it's doomed.

It moved the debate from "Bitcoin can't/won't scale... LN, Blockstream Sidechains are the solution." to "Max blocksize will increase soon, just not so dramatically." It also showed the Core project that their control is not divinely sanctioned and inalterable.

For those two reasons I would call it successful.

I agree

However, if core devs don't agree on something substantial soon I think we may all be praising the hearncoin soon. Everyone watches the debate, if the climate changes XT might get a sudden boost. If people really wants larger block sizes and have to choose between BIP100, BIP101(XT), BIP102, BIP105 or BIP106 without agreement among core devs, I think XT has a good chance of pulling ahead.

XT does exactly what is was supposed to do, i.e. force the debate and make sure the block size will increase one way or the other. Any block size increase (which was stonewalled until recently) means that XT succeeded.
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September 11, 2015, 10:32:45 PM


i heard next week the fed holds their meeting. will they up interest rates ?? i doubt they will. instead they will point at what happened with china to excuse themselves from the obvious fakelands ... will they announce QE4... probably not just yet.. it might be just a bit too early for them to make that move too. however, honestly, i dont really know. i think we will do more obama dancing around pretending like he is really doing something as everything continues to slowly crumble around him....rekt.

-snip-

Obama is dancing around like a ninny because americans turn around every two years and vote for fucking republicans for Congress. Republicans have had one goal for the last 8 years: make Obama look like a worse President than Bush. They don't care if they destroy the country in the process. And you lot keep voting for them.

Even that one goal the Republicans didn't reach. Obama turns out to be one of the best presidents of the past 50 years.
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September 11, 2015, 10:34:32 PM

Coin
Explanation
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September 11, 2015, 10:36:26 PM


CH, either you go and fix yourself or STFU !!!
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September 11, 2015, 10:37:48 PM

BlindMayorBitcorn
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September 11, 2015, 10:45:56 PM


Many consumers have exclaimed they will leave Bitcoin to go to an altcoin which suits their "needs" if they don't get their way in Bitcoin being perverted into a system to compete with Visa. What they don't realize is the consequences they will face if they choose this option.




full article: http://qntra.net/2015/09/consumers-begin-revolting-bitcoin-is-not-visa/

And what are the consequences?




read much?



before the end of 2015 there's about a thousand to a million different Bitcoin forks, each with its ten million-ish monetary base worth about a dollar, on global average.

The size of the inter-Bitcoins market, the complexity and confusion ensuing makes pretty much everything unmanageable for the "ordinary person".



derp

Did he actually just predict altcoins? Shocked Roll Eyes
nioc
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September 11, 2015, 11:08:14 PM

history unerringly flows in that direction which most cruelly rapes the "average person".


I wonder what else I missed during my 1 week away.  Still I will refrain from going back and reading.

My god, it's full of stars!
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September 11, 2015, 11:08:33 PM

Coin
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Cconvert2G36
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September 11, 2015, 11:10:24 PM

Saying that those who would prefer to see an increase in max_block_size are just consumers clamoring for VISA levels of throughput is a weak strawman argument. Obviously, jumping from 2.7 tps to 50,000 tps is completely out of the question, but if you can paint your opponent as being in favor of something ridiculous, you win... (or look like a disingenuous douche).

Adam Back's proposed doubling every two years... 2MB in 2016, 4 in 2018, 8 in 2020 seems reasonable. A somewhat more forceful can kick of Jeff's BIP102.

One thing is becoming abundantly clear: Those who want the 1MB blocks to be as sacrosanct as the 21mil emission limit... the MP toadies who brought you the lovely and productive captions generously posted here by hdbuck... are about to get unceremoniously REKT.
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September 11, 2015, 11:16:31 PM


Many consumers have exclaimed they will leave Bitcoin to go to an altcoin which suits their "needs" if they don't get their way in Bitcoin being perverted into a system to compete with Visa. What they don't realize is the consequences they will face if they choose this option.




full article: http://qntra.net/2015/09/consumers-begin-revolting-bitcoin-is-not-visa/

And what are the consequences?


Please don't tell me you are questioning the edicts of our favorite Romanian gypsy?

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September 12, 2015, 12:25:43 AM

Interesting report.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-09-07/isle-of-man-tax-haven-with-tailless-cats-becomes-bitcoin-hub
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September 12, 2015, 12:45:17 AM


 
edit: maybe i should i add colors too?


edit edit: how about a picture? you like pictures, right?





Maybe HDBuck should be removed from his picture posting privileges?      Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Tongue Tongue Tongue

JorgeStolfi
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September 12, 2015, 12:57:33 AM

coindesk's centralization scaling conference:

Liked that!

Quote
[ From Qntra/Trilema: ]
Bitcoin's value proposition lies in its fixed inflation. No number of dollars meeting the market can increase the supply schedule. Trilema clearly explains:

There's pretty much literally nothing those extra dollars nobody wants can do to increase the Bitcoin supply.  It's very, very inelastic, and consequently the only stability point is when equilibrium is reached. Two billion dollars divided by 600`000 Bitcoins comes to three thousand dollars and change per Bitcoin.

Actually inflation *can* be introduced into bitcoin in a number of ways, at nearly zero cost.  The supply cap or 21 million BTC is not "guaranteed by math"; it is decided by humans who choose which software to run.  Paraphrasing the old proverb, "no protocol change is prohibited if the right 20 business men decide to implement it".  

Then there are also altcoins, both original and forks of bitcoin.  Litecoin already has faster confirmation times and better antispam protection than bitcoin (thanks to a measure that Charlie Lee implemented in Litecoin, but the Core devs rejected for Bitcoin).   Viacoin aims to be a replacement of bitcoin; it is noteworthy, among dozens of other altcoins, because at least two Core developers (Peter Todd and BTC Drak) work for it.  

So it is not unconceivable that some other coin will conquer Bitcoin's user base -- and value.

Even if the supply cap of Bitcoin *were* guaranteed to never change, that would not guarantee fabulous prices: scarcity does not imply value.   There is a finite number of tickets for last month's Penssilvania State Lottery, that can decrease but never increase.  With modern micro-analytic techniques, forgery of such tickets would be impossible in practice.  Yet those tickets are now worth the price of dirty paper scraps.  

Quote
Bitcoin is faced with hitting another inelastic limit in its maximum transaction volume.

It is not inelastic at all.   The number of regular bitcoin users is probably less than 100'000.  It is possible that the network will not be able to serve 1000 times as many users in 10 years time.  However, it can certainly serve 10 times as many, even today.

There is a dozen people who think that they own the system, and want to impose an artifical 1 MB lmit on the block size.  Such a limit would prevent the traffic from growing to more than 0.750 MB/block, a level expected to be reached in 2016.  But there is no justification at all for why the block size limit should be 1 MB, rather than 0.100 MB or 10 MB.  Even those guys are now admitting, grudgingly, that the size limit should be raised "now" to 2 MB/block.  The major businesses support BIP101 (with 8 MB blocks now), while the miners support BIP100 (that gives them dynamic control of the block size).  

So, there goes the "inelastic limit in its maximum transaction volume".

That group has claimed that letting the traffic grow beyond the current 0.750 MB/block limit would have a number of harmful effects, such as fewer full nodes, increased miner concentration, increased orphan rates, etc.  But those claims are just FUD.

Miners are too concentrated today and will tend to be more concentrated. The reasons are economies of scale and of location, that are independent of traffic levels or block sizes.

The block size has more than doubled over the past 15 months, and yet the average orphan rate has remained totally flat, at ~1.5 orphaned blocks per day.

The number of full nodes will continue to decrease, no matter what.  Not just because of the increased traffic, but mainly because shutting down a node saves saves money for the node operator, while starting a new one costs increasingly more in bandwidth and time -- even if traffic were to remain constant. (The blockcchain now grows at 100 MB every day, and will soon grow at 150 MB/day even if the 1 MB limit is not raised.)

(And then there are those small-blockians kiling hundred of full nodes because they dared to express support for XT... )
Cconvert2G36
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September 12, 2015, 01:37:07 AM


Actually inflation *can* be introduced into bitcoin in a number of ways, at nearly zero cost.  The supply cap or 21 million BTC is not "guaranteed by math"; it is decided by humans who choose which software to run.  Paraphrasing the old proverb, "no protocol change is prohibited if the right 20 business men decide to implement it".  


"Zero cost"... Aside from the cost of nearly every major hodler of bitcoin dumping them instantaneously if the 21 mil cap is put in serious jeopardy. "Killing the golden egg laying goose." "Mutually Assured Destruction." The miners are perhaps the most incentivized to stick to this rule in the entire ecosystem, after all, they can't dump coins today that they will be mining tomorrow.

The rest of your points seem pretty salient and generate no argument from me.

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September 12, 2015, 01:45:28 AM

Here comes 10,000,000 views! Congrats adamstgBit!
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