Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[brg444]

Again, it is possible that the devs do not see how wrong that argument is?

The max block size that was put into the rules in 2010 was not "1 MB" but "a value small enough to prevent big-block attack but still much larger than traffic so that it would not create spurious scarcity, and every transaction would be confirmed as quickly as possible." 

Can you provide source for this or did you just make it up?

There is NO evidence that the centralization of mining that happened so far was due to the natural growth in the block sizes, or that such growth would affect it in the foreseeable future.  That is just one of several dishonest FUD arguments that Adam Back used at one point.  The economies of scale that resulted in concentration of mining are due to the savings in the costs of equipment, space, electricity, cooling, personnel, management, etc.  that exist  for bulk purchasers and for certain geographic locations. 

You are again completely fabricating a straw man...? That's absolutely not what I'm saying and I don't believe I've ever read anything of the sort by Adam.

As for increasing block size having an effect on mining centralization if we do not proceed carefully and by increments there are several technical aspects that can lead to this conclusion.

You need to try harder trollfi this isn't up to your standards...

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[findftp]

There is NO evidence that the centralization of mining that happened so far was due to the natural growth in the block sizes, or that such growth would affect it in the foreseeable future.

You can say the same for worldwide mass adoption to use bitcoin as a payment network for micro transactions.
Just optimize the mempool and reject zero (and micro) fee transactions to prevent out of memory nodes.
The market will take care of the rest.

[billyjoeallen]

If I'm not buying blockspace when I'm buying bitcoin, then what the hell am I buying? You can't charge rent on something you've already sold. That's not how business works. That's how the State works.

"Which is better - to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mather Byles

I dunno, Mather. Looks like the same shitty deal to me.

How can you possibly equate buying bitcoin with buying block space  

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

You are buying space on the ledger, not the block. You need to pay to move these bitcoins to a different address on the ledger.

So for 1 bitcoin I get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain? Are you for real? Were you hit over the head with something?

Nope. I get one twentyone millionth of the whole damn chain. 4 eva. If you think that's too much, then perhaps you are selling your coins too cheaply.

[brg444]

If I'm not buying blockspace when I'm buying bitcoin, then what the hell am I buying? You can't charge rent on something you've already sold. That's not how business works. That's how the State works.

"Which is better - to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mather Byles

I dunno, Mather. Looks like the same shitty deal to me.

How can you possibly equate buying bitcoin with buying block space  

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

You are buying space on the ledger, not the block. You need to pay to move these bitcoins to a different address on the ledger.

So for 1 bitcoin I get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain? Are you for real? Were you hit over the head with something?

Nope. I get one twentyone millionth of the whole damn chain. 4 eva. If you think that's too much, then perhaps you are selling your coins too cheaply.

Confusing the ledger composed of bitcoins with the chain... now that is something else!

Guys it looks like we had it wrong all along! We're not actually buying bitcoins! We're buying parts of the blockchain!

 

Do you have any concept of what "the chain" is? Imma let you in on a killer deal: if you decide to run a full node, you will not only get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain, you'll get ALL OF IT without having to spend a dime. Now isn't this AWESOME? 

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[findftp]

The maximum it would take to absolutely guarantee a 100MM market cap would be $100,000,000 but would almost certainly be a fraction of that.  Throw in a plunge protection team to smooth out the most extreme volatility and you'd have a coin anyone and everyone would want to buy or mine.

Ah come on, you. must. be. joking.

[brg444]

The maximum it would take to absolutely guarantee a 100MM market cap would be $100,000,000 but would almost certainly be a fraction of that.  Throw in a plunge protection team to smooth out the most extreme volatility and you'd have a coin anyone and everyone would want to buy or mine.

Ah come on, you. must. be. joking.

He doesn't even know someone tried that already. Paycoin was it called?

[billyjoeallen]

If I'm not buying blockspace when I'm buying bitcoin, then what the hell am I buying? You can't charge rent on something you've already sold. That's not how business works. That's how the State works.

"Which is better - to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mather Byles

I dunno, Mather. Looks like the same shitty deal to me.

How can you possibly equate buying bitcoin with buying block space  

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

You are buying space on the ledger, not the block. You need to pay to move these bitcoins to a different address on the ledger.

So for 1 bitcoin I get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain? Are you for real? Were you hit over the head with something?

Nope. I get one twentyone millionth of the whole damn chain. 4 eva. If you think that's too much, then perhaps you are selling your coins too cheaply.

Confusing the ledger composed of bitcoins with the chain... now that is something else!

Guys it looks like we had it wrong all along! We're not actually buying bitcoins! We're buying parts of the blockchain!

 

Do you have any concept of what "the chain" is? Imma let you in on a killer deal: if you decide to run a full node, you will not only get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain, you'll get ALL OF IT without having to spend a dime. Now isn't this AWESOME? 

If you're not gonna answer my question, then it is fair to assume you don't have an answer.

[findftp]

If I'm not buying blockspace when I'm buying bitcoin, then what the hell am I buying? You can't charge rent on something you've already sold. That's not how business works. That's how the State works.

"Which is better - to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mather Byles

I dunno, Mather. Looks like the same shitty deal to me.

How can you possibly equate buying bitcoin with buying block space  

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

You are buying space on the ledger, not the block. You need to pay to move these bitcoins to a different address on the ledger.

So for 1 bitcoin I get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain? Are you for real? Were you hit over the head with something?

Nope. I get one twentyone millionth of the whole damn chain. 4 eva. If you think that's too much, then perhaps you are selling your coins too cheaply.

But if you really are convinced about this concept, you must be a big opponent of blockchain pruning (only store unspent outputs of all addresses) right?
Spoiler alert: It's already implemented

[brg444]

If I'm not buying blockspace when I'm buying bitcoin, then what the hell am I buying? You can't charge rent on something you've already sold. That's not how business works. That's how the State works.

"Which is better - to be ruled by one tyrant three thousand miles away or by three thousand tyrants one mile away?" ~ Mather Byles

I dunno, Mather. Looks like the same shitty deal to me.

How can you possibly equate buying bitcoin with buying block space  

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

You are buying space on the ledger, not the block. You need to pay to move these bitcoins to a different address on the ledger.

So for 1 bitcoin I get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain? Are you for real? Were you hit over the head with something?

Nope. I get one twentyone millionth of the whole damn chain. 4 eva. If you think that's too much, then perhaps you are selling your coins too cheaply.

Confusing the ledger composed of bitcoins with the chain... now that is something else!

Guys it looks like we had it wrong all along! We're not actually buying bitcoins! We're buying parts of the blockchain!

 

Do you have any concept of what "the chain" is? Imma let you in on a killer deal: if you decide to run a full node, you will not only get 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain, you'll get ALL OF IT without having to spend a dime. Now isn't this AWESOME?  

If you're not gonna answer my question, then it is fair to assume you don't have an answer.

What question? Do you realize how utterly confused you are, talking about buying fractions of the blockchain?

[Auxi]

Bitcoin should implement a budget system like Dash, and the problem will be stop.
https://dashtalk.org/threads/v12-release.5888/

[fonsie]

Food for thought:

If bitcoinXT doesn't get adopted it has proven that bitcoin will not be replaced by a better alt-coin.

[Fatman3001]

[findftp]

Oh man, thanks. You just summed up this discussion with one image.
I'm rolling on the floor LMAO.
 

[Fatman3001]

-snip-

Oh man, thanks. You just summed up this discussion with one image.
I'm rolling on the floor LMAO.
 

"A picture says more than a thousand words."

Only problem is: nerds are wordy.

[brg444]

How's that supposed to work? How many "blockspace" do I get for 1 bitcoin?

Easy. 1/21,000,000th of the whole chain.  I answered your question, now you answer mine. If I'm not buying space on the blockchain when I'm buying bitcoin, what am I buying?

Just quoting this again for posterity.

[hdbuck]

Food for thought:

If bitcoinXT doesn't get adopted it has proven that bitcoin will not be replaced by a better alt-coin.

more food:

bitcoin XT is the first altcoin with sorta fair premine.. xD

[ChartBuddy]

Coin
Explanation

[Feri22]

Food for thought:

If bitcoinXT doesn't get adopted it has proven that bitcoin will not be replaced by a better alt-coin.

BictoinXT is just an alt-client...same as Toshi from Coinbase and others

It is surprising how there are so many people that don't know what they are talking about and yet they have very strong opinion about it

There were already more clients before XT...the Bitcoin client development should not be centralized...You never know what real intentions of Blockstream are...And i don't think for profit company should lead development of open source decentralised software...they can develop, sure, but they can't be the only one, because these guys can be corrupted

[greenlion]

My personal impression is that hash rate is dictated by price and (more importantly?) technology, with rate reacting to price and not the inverse. The two big ramps were directly related to a paradigm shift in mining tech, CPU to GPU, and GPU to ASIC. With ASIC gear becoming increasingly efficient we will probably see a rise in hashrate even in the face of a flat or modestly declining price. The upcoming halving should be pretty interesting for those watching this relationship. 

It's not inconceivable that hashrate actually drives price in certain scenarios, once you consider the possibility of mining operations hedging by entering into futures contracts, and potentially establishing a floor based on buying instead of mining to satisfy those contracts at certain price levels.