Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JimboToronto]

AltGodl is up too, currently $108

AltGold doesn't even exist yet. It's still in its sleazy pre-mining period.

Any prices now are basically on futures. We'll see if there's ever any real value to it.

The only reason I quote AltCash is that it's actually worth something, albeit pretty much only at South Korean exchanges.

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[bitserve]

Last few days BTC was oversold. The depth of the markets shows that the demand is rapidly increasing. Moreover at least 1/3 of the miners switched to BCH which is more profitable by 50%. I expected the price would hold during the weekend and probably go up in the next few days. Who knows, may be another ATH is coming?

Since Ver/Wu/Wright own 97% of BCH mining, they can do the following:

1. Mine BCH, wash trade, and accumulate BCH on the down low

2. Switch mining hashrate from BTC to BCH

3. Pump BCH, lock up mining blocks, trade BCH for BTC into the pump

4. Switch hashrate back to BTC, pump BTC

5. Sell traded BTC into the pump, or just hold on to it (making them wealthier).

6. Profit

I contend that BCH is still just a money making scam to them. Sad that anyone would fall for that garbage. They don't want BCH, they want your Bitcoin. You'll see all that here soon, when you see BCH drop and BTC start to rise again.

And don't think for a second that their little operation isn't being "subsidized" by outside elements.

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

[gembitz]

AltGodl is up too, currently $108

AltGold doesn't even exist yet. It's still in its sleazy pre-mining period.

Any prices now are basically on futures. We'll see if there's ever any real value to it.

The only reason I quote AltCash is that it's actually worth something, albeit pretty much only at South Korean exchanges.

KekGold is not even a real coin brah   #bitcoin #moonshipzzz #weee

[Rosewater Foundation]

it had some potential it seems without the pre mine

[DaRude]

Well a very good morning Bitcoinland.

I see I woke up just in time for a rally. It's moving so quickly there's almost no point in posting a price but it just hit $6017USD/$7709CAD at Bitcoinaverage.

AltCash is also up nicely at $456USD/$585CAD (Coinmaketcap). For those still holding both, that's a total of $6473USD or $8194CAD per old coin. Not bad.

Go Bitcoin go.

AltGodl is up too, currently $108

And for those that were smart enough to dump BCH coin for .16 of BTC you're already over $7k 

[bones261]

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

I believe Bitcoin Cash is a vehicle for Jihan Wu to implement his ideas on improving scaling. He does not appreciate Segwit. After all, he now owns the patent on ASICBOOST, and segwit renders that useless. Him and his buddies are involved in Nchain, which is doing research into on-chain scaling, among other things. Furthermore, they "might" try to develop ways to fix the transaction malleability bug with another method, that I am sure would still be compatible with ASICBOOST. Once they can figure out an alternate way to fix the transaction malleability bug, they may also consider off chain solutions to scaling issue.
I think they are accumulating BCH, because Jihan Wu and friends wants to do as much as possible to keep the UAHF alive. After all, Jihan Wu is also selling the latest miner batches for Bitcoin Cash only. Dumping his bags of BCH, at this point, would hurt the viability of his project.

[DaRude]

Last few days BTC was oversold. The depth of the markets shows that the demand is rapidly increasing. Moreover at least 1/3 of the miners switched to BCH which is more profitable by 50%. I expected the price would hold during the weekend and probably go up in the next few days. Who knows, may be another ATH is coming?

Since Ver/Wu/Wright own 97% of BCH mining, they can do the following:

1. Mine BCH, wash trade, and accumulate BCH on the down low

2. Switch mining hashrate from BTC to BCH

3. Pump BCH, lock up mining blocks, trade BCH for BTC into the pump

4. Switch hashrate back to BTC, pump BTC

5. Sell traded BTC into the pump, or just hold on to it (making them wealthier).

6. Profit

I contend that BCH is still just a money making scam to them. Sad that anyone would fall for that garbage. They don't want BCH, they want your Bitcoin. You'll see all that here soon, when you see BCH drop and BTC start to rise again.

And don't think for a second that their little operation isn't being "subsidized" by outside elements.

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

Or, or, no one wants to put real BTC or $ for BCH coin, so the only way they can prop up the price is by removing the supply altogether. They're making some nice margins on BTC so unfortunately they should be able to keep that for some time now. Expensive hobby though...

[becoin]

Last few days BTC was oversold. The depth of the markets shows that the demand is rapidly increasing. Moreover at least 1/3 of the miners switched to BCH which is more profitable by 50%. I expected the price would hold during the weekend and probably go up in the next few days. Who knows, may be another ATH is coming?

Since Ver/Wu/Wright own 97% of BCH mining, they can do the following:

1. Mine BCH, wash trade, and accumulate BCH on the down low

2. Switch mining hashrate from BTC to BCH

3. Pump BCH, lock up mining blocks, trade BCH for BTC into the pump

4. Switch hashrate back to BTC, pump BTC

5. Sell traded BTC into the pump, or just hold on to it (making them wealthier).

6. Profit

I contend that BCH is still just a money making scam to them. Sad that anyone would fall for that garbage. They don't want BCH, they want your Bitcoin. You'll see all that here soon, when you see BCH drop and BTC start to rise again.

And don't think for a second that their little operation isn't being "subsidized" by outside elements.

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

They are accumulating because they have no choice. Nobody else is buying altcash shit.

[bones261]

Since Ver/Wu/Wright own 97% of BCH mining, they can do the following:

1. Mine BCH, wash trade, and accumulate BCH on the down low

2. Switch mining hashrate from BTC to BCH

3. Pump BCH, lock up mining blocks, trade BCH for BTC into the pump

4. Switch hashrate back to BTC, pump BTC

5. Sell traded BTC into the pump, or just hold on to it (making them wealthier).

6. Profit

I contend that BCH is still just a money making scam to them. Sad that anyone would fall for that garbage. They don't want BCH, they want your Bitcoin. You'll see all that here soon, when you see BCH drop and BTC start to rise again.

And don't think for a second that their little operation isn't being "subsidized" by outside elements.

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

They are accumulating because they have no choice. Nobody else is buying altcash shit.

Of course they have a choice. They could use their mined stash to do wash trades and give the appearance of high volume. But they are not doing that either. However, Bitcoin Cash is planning to do a hardfork around the time of the S2X hard fork. They are planning on coming up with a different difficulty adjustment algorithm to replace the EDA.
https://www.bitsonline.com/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork/
The developers claim that the timing of the hardfork has absolutely nothing to do with the upcoming S2x hardfork. (Right...I believe that.  )

[DaRude]

Since Ver/Wu/Wright own 97% of BCH mining, they can do the following:

1. Mine BCH, wash trade, and accumulate BCH on the down low

2. Switch mining hashrate from BTC to BCH

3. Pump BCH, lock up mining blocks, trade BCH for BTC into the pump

4. Switch hashrate back to BTC, pump BTC

5. Sell traded BTC into the pump, or just hold on to it (making them wealthier).

6. Profit

I contend that BCH is still just a money making scam to them. Sad that anyone would fall for that garbage. They don't want BCH, they want your Bitcoin. You'll see all that here soon, when you see BCH drop and BTC start to rise again.

And don't think for a second that their little operation isn't being "subsidized" by outside elements.

The problem with your assessment is that the two major mystery miners(probably two farms run by Jihan Wu) have not moved any of the coins that they mined.

https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/17Wk4GPKw9nZ9PbspzaxN3fv1L2m9NA9dg/transactions/out/0
https://www.blocktrail.com/BCC/address/1BgatB78WrFLdCgnPnBqiDcNFFA46jkPZe/transactions/out/0

That's very interesting. So they are accumulating and betting on some future pump.

They are accumulating because they have no choice. Nobody else is buying altcash shit.

Of course they have a choice. They could use their mined stash to do wash trades and give the appearance of high volume. But they are not doing that either. However, Bitcoin Cash is planning to do a hardfork around the time of the S2X hard fork. They are planning on coming up with a different difficulty adjustment algorithm to replace the EDA.
https://www.bitsonline.com/bitcoin-cash-hard-fork/
The developers claim that the timing of the hardfork has absolutely nothing to do with the upcoming S2x hardfork. (Right...I believe that.  )

Did i miss the /s mark? Or there's seriously someone out there that thinks that $2.0B 24hr volume on a $7.9B market cab is normal trades... so every 4days every single coin should change hands? Then I have a bridge to sell you       

[bones261]

Did i miss the /s mark? Or there's seriously someone out there that thinks that $2.0B 24hr volume on a $7.9B market cab is normal trades... so every 4days every single coin should change hands? Then I have a bridge to sell you       

I'm not arguing against the obvious BCH market manipulation. I'm only pointing out the the magical mystery miner stash is not being used. There is still all of that BCH that Wright, Ver and Wu were granted at the moment of the hardfork though. Plus, I am sure the trio still own a vast amount of BTC to play with too. Thank goodness that Wright is most probably the Anti-Satoshi and does not have access to the private key of those ~1M BTC (and now 1M BCH too) mined years ago.

[jojo69]

those keys are gone

there will only ever be 20M

[becoin]

I'm not arguing against the obvious BCH market manipulation. I'm only pointing out the the magical mystery miner stash is not being used.  

You've been answered multiple times. This shouldn't be so hard to understand. They can't use it because nobody is buying this altcashit. To use it they have to sell it to themselves...

[Torque]

Did i miss the /s mark? Or there's seriously someone out there that thinks that $2.0B 24hr volume on a $7.9B market cab is normal trades... so every 4days every single coin should change hands? Then I have a bridge to sell you       

I'm not arguing against the obvious BCH market manipulation. I'm only pointing out the the magical mystery miner stash is not being used. There is still all of that BCH that Wright, Ver and Wu were granted at the moment of the hardfork though. Plus, I am sure the trio still own a vast amount of BTC to play with too. Thank goodness that Wright is most probably the Anti-Satoshi and does not have access to the private key of those ~1M BTC (and now 1M BCH too) mined years ago.

It doesn't surprise me that their mined coins aren't going anywhere. And how could they with 4 hr block times? Lol

Also, in order to simulate that kind of price rise and corresponding (fake) volume, they'd have to be doing all kinds of shenanigans on that S. Korean exchange Bithumb. Restricting to a tiny tiny float, wash trading, exchange owners front running, using excessive or possibly even naked leverage trades, perhaps even some fake bot trades entirely. In the past we've seen this kind of shit on some Chinese exchanges, so why would anyone assume that S. Korean exchanges would be any different?

It's likely that it is entirely a rigged, trumped up exchange market.

[realr0ach]

Besides all of them being centralized and having no reason to exist at all, why all cryptocurrency is garbage:

The r0ach report 23: The Achilles heel of cryptocurrency economic fundamentals - Seigniorage fee

https://steemit.com/money/@r0achtheunsavory/the-r0ach-report-23-the-achilles-heel-of-cryptocurrency-economic-fundamentals-seigniorage-fee

The difference in cost of production and face value of a monetary instrument is called seigniorage fee. If the cost of a dollar bill is something like four cents to create but you pay the government 96 extra cents for it, that's called you being ripped off by orders of magnitude and the government using the ripoff profits to fund it's mafia. In the big picture, you're always going to be getting hit with some type of seigniorage fee no matter what you use, but the key is to minimize it.

Now that we've established you need to be a moron to buy paper, fiat currency, let's examine how this relates to craptocurrency. Humans live in a generally closed ecosystem, and since the peak of the industrial age, cost of production generally only goes up for the noble metals as the free market takes all the low hanging fruit first. This means seigniorage fee is mostly always going to be on your side holding those instruments. Bitcoin on the other hand, has a floating cost of production function where production cost is recursive based on it's own demand.

Metals are a non-recursive system since cost of production is always a derivative of the external energy market. This is an important point to make since anyone from a programming background knows recursive systems are a flimsy house of cards with a single problem variable. The problem variable is that the cost of production for bitcoin can go down just as easily as it goes up. This makes it a very unsound monetary instrument in terms of seigniorage fee compared to virtually every other "asset" on the planet since the other assets are generally not recursive.

In case you lack any common sense whatsoever and haven't figured out bitcoin doesn't actually exist in the real world and is mostly imaginary, I would say any system built on recursion disqualifies itself from being an "asset" in the first place.

There are virtually no fundamentals whatsoever in terms of seigniorage fee in bitcoin and contrary to current day opinion, fundamentals actually do matter. It's basically designed to be nothing more than a pump and dump in other words. (i.e. You can never say "oh, I got a good deal buying bitcoin at $100 or $10,000. Everything over $0 is a seigniorage fee in bitcoin so you are generally always being ripped off no matter what you pay, unlike physical assets even as lowly as toilet paper).

[bones261]

I'm not arguing against the obvious BCH market manipulation. I'm only pointing out the the magical mystery miner stash is not being used.  

You've been answered multiple times. This shouldn't be so hard to understand. They can't use it because nobody is buying this altcashit. To use it they have to sell it to themselves...

Selling it to themselves would be called a wash trade. It is a tactic that can be used to generate fake volume.   Almost 92,000 extra BCH could be used to create dramatic effects in fake volume if used in wash trades. No?

It doesn't surprise me that their mined coins aren't going anywhere. And how could they with 4 hr block times? Lol

The blocks were coming in at about once a minute just yesterday. They have had plenty of opportunities to move those coins in supersonic times if they wanted to.   The way the BCH blockchain moves, it is similar to the Goldilocks fairy tail. Too hot, too cold, just right. Too hard, too soft, just right. Only big problem with the just right blocks is at those times the two mystery miners are mining over 97 % of the blocks.

[vortex1878]

those keys are gone

there will only ever be 20M

21M maybe? 

[oblox]

those keys are gone

there will only ever be 20M

21M maybe? 

No, he's saying that Satoshi's stack is effectively out of circulation for good, so 20M.

[becoin]

The blocks were coming in at about once a minute just yesterday. They have had plenty of opportunities to move those coins in supersonic times if they wanted to.

There is no point of moving any altcashit if they're already drowning in altcashit they have to buy every day.

[lightfoot]

It always works: I sell a bit-dime and the price skyrockets as a result.

Maybe I should start a donation wallet: Donate bitpennies to me, I'll sell it, and the price will skyrocket as a result.

Thoughts?