Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Etranger]

good old germany

The 11.5% for Switzerland are complete nonsense.
There is no crypto tax, there is only a property tax where crypto coins are added (based on an average fiat worth that the tax admin sets yearly) to your other properties and this tax is almost always in the very low single percentage figures (~1-5%).
Trading gains are tax free too as long as they do not classify one as professional trader (which would simply lead to paying income taxes on the gains).

Is it even possible to talk about a single tax on cryptocurrencies throughout Switzerland, when in fact each canton has different tax laws? As far as I know, in Switzerland cryptocurrencies are classified as movable property. But some cantons made them a subject to income tax, some - to capital gain tax, some to wealth tax, and some even to value added tax. And all this taxes are different.

[Hueristic]

Well i guess it was inevitable: https://www.theblock.co/post/236838/crypto-exchange-kucoin-mandatory-kyc

Are there any non-KYC "good enough" exchanges left at this point ? Not including DEX of course.

that'd interest me as well..

KuCoin and Poloniex seem to be somewhat trustworthier but they can demand KYC at any time. Poloniex has low volume though.

Poloniex stole and dumped my coins at AYL and sent the funds to my states treasury when I refused to agree with their TOS after Goldman ballsacks bought them so yeah no.

Have no clue about Kucoin.

[Biodom]

An alternative scenario:

Due to two-three additional interest rates hikes expected, everything is peaking for the summer, then we have a usual "scary" fiat market dip in September-October.
Then, they find out that inflation is rapidly declining, Wall Street starts whining that Fed is too tight and they switch to easing by November.
Not sure how bitcoin fits in this picture, but I expect total market (indicated by VTI) going to about zero or small gains for the year (which means losing maybe 10-12%) first before some appreciation in Nov-Dec.

EDIT: Microstrategy bought additional 12333 btc at about 28.3K /btc average. Bullish long term.

[psycodad]

good old germany

The 11.5% for Switzerland are complete nonsense.
There is no crypto tax, there is only a property tax where crypto coins are added (based on an average fiat worth that the tax admin sets yearly) to your other properties and this tax is almost always in the very low single percentage figures (~1-5%).
Trading gains are tax free too as long as they do not classify one as professional trader (which would simply lead to paying income taxes on the gains).

Is it even possible to talk about a single tax on cryptocurrencies throughout Switzerland, when in fact each canton has different tax laws? As far as I know, in Switzerland cryptocurrencies are classified as movable property. But some cantons made them a subject to income tax, some - to capital gain tax, some to wealth tax, and some even to value added tax. And all this taxes are different.

As far as I understand and know, it counts as moveable property in every canton and is exclusively subject to wealth tax which is federal tax law (1). It's just that the wealth taxes % differ quite a bit over different cantons (the poorer and more rural the canton, the higher the wealth tax).

If you mine (possibly applies to staking too), it is income and has to be declared as such, otherwise there is no canton charging income tax on any capital gains of private persons.
So my understanding is rather, the law is everywhere the same, the rates/percentages asked differ from canton to canton.

(1) sorry, no english version available but ofc french and italian: https://www.estv.admin.ch/estv/de/home/direkte-bundessteuer/fachinformationen-dbst/kryptowaehrungen.html

[John Abraham]

Buckle up, buckaroos.

Coin up, coinaroos.
 

That's a very cornie expression....

Corn up corneroos? 

Are you asking again?

Someone posted this a few days ago.

[Hueristic]

Buckle up, buckaroos.

Coin up, coinaroos.
 

That's a very cornie expression....

Corn up corneroos? 

Are you asking again?

Someone posted this a few days ago.

Thats the expectation.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Hamich124D]

Well i guess it was inevitable: https://www.theblock.co/post/236838/crypto-exchange-kucoin-mandatory-kyc

Are there any non-KYC "good enough" exchanges left at this point ? Not including DEX of course.

that'd interest me as well..

KuCoin and Poloniex seem to be somewhat trustworthier but they can demand KYC at any time. Poloniex has low volume though.

Thanks. Do you know if they accept/do (fiat) bank transfer without kyc?

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

[Who is John Galt?]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

[Out of mind]

https://twitter.com/CryptoCon_/status/1674071466784980993?t=Tt5UXApl64WwcSJ3OynT2A&s=19

[OgNasty]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

Slowly but surely the SEC is threatening or shutting down exchanges and services that don’t comply with their policies. This is going to bring an end to a lot of cool projects, but it will also level the playing field for those looking to start legitimate businesses. Personally I liked Bitcoin more before the regulation when cool services were everywhere, but this seems a necessary development in order for Bitcoin to thrive.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[Who is John Galt?]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

Slowly but surely the SEC is threatening or shutting down exchanges and services that don’t comply with their policies. This is going to bring an end to a lot of cool projects, but it will also level the playing field for those looking to start legitimate businesses. Personally I liked Bitcoin more before the regulation when cool services were everywhere, but this seems a necessary development in order for Bitcoin to thrive.

And what is the fundamental difference between a project clamped by KYC procedures and a fiat system? First you stop being anonymous, then you stop being able to use the "wrong" bitcoins, then you lose the right to use real bitcoins on the bitcoin blockchain and can only manage ersatz bitcoins in the accounts of a centralized intermediary.

The value of bitcoin lies in its decentralization. I do not need a similar centralized project; instead of a similar centralized project, I can use dollars.

[bct_ail]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

Does a DEX offered Fiat deposit? Is there any? Do not know any. So what kind of future is that if average Joe cannot change fiat in BTC anonymous? It is becoming more and more difficult.

But it is not only KYC at KuCoin. They are also looking at the origin of your Bitcoins:

Pursuant to the requirements of the laws and regulations of applicable jurisdictions, KuCoin also collects additional information related to the customer’s business and risk profile. Risk profile data includes nature and volume of trading activity, origin of virtual funds deposited, Lyu added.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/kucoin-crypto-exchange-to-introduce-mandatory-kyc-in-july

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation
Chartbuddy thanks talkimg.com

[FinePoine0]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

Slowly but surely the SEC is threatening or shutting down exchanges and services that don’t comply with their policies. This is going to bring an end to a lot of cool projects, but it will also level the playing field for those looking to start legitimate businesses. Personally I liked Bitcoin more before the regulation when cool services were everywhere, but this seems a necessary development in order for Bitcoin to thrive.

And what is the fundamental difference between a project clamped by KYC procedures and a fiat system? First you stop being anonymous, then you stop being able to use the "wrong" bitcoins, then you lose the right to use real bitcoins on the bitcoin blockchain and can only manage ersatz bitcoins in the accounts of a centralized intermediary.

The value of bitcoin lies in its decentralization. I do not need a similar centralized project; instead of a similar centralized project, I can use dollars.

The exchange KYC procedure refers to the beneficial ownership clause. KYC system must be enabled by your KYC system to guard against anonymity when opening an account at an exchange.
 Making fiat money with bitcoin is 'wrong' because currently the bitcoin investment system is locked in itself.

BTC Hold on , Not Sell......

[goldkingcoiner]

KuCoin is going full KYC starting july 15.

Over time, all centralized exchanges will do this. The future is with DEX. KYC is incompatible with bitcoin in its concept. Privacy and anonymity, I do not intend to go through the KYC procedure on any exchanges.

Does a DEX offered Fiat deposit? Is there any? Do not know any. So what kind of future is that if average Joe cannot change fiat in BTC anonymous? It is becoming more and more difficult.

But it is not only KYC at KuCoin. They are also looking at the origin of your Bitcoins:

Pursuant to the requirements of the laws and regulations of applicable jurisdictions, KuCoin also collects additional information related to the customer’s business and risk profile. Risk profile data includes nature and volume of trading activity, origin of virtual funds deposited, Lyu added.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/kucoin-crypto-exchange-to-introduce-mandatory-kyc-in-july

DEX do not offer fiat deposits. If you want to trade on DEX, buy your coin at a decentralized P2P platform and then swap it to whichever token you feel comfortable with. Although keep in mind that USDT is not the same as USD just as wrapped Bitcoin is not actual Bitcoin (sames goes for any other pegged token). Sure, the prices are pegged but the blockchain is a different one and the pegged asset could be questionable in its security. I suspect the best thing for a Bitcoiner to do is buy and hodl actual, real BTC through a non-KYC, non-custodial and non-centralized method. So if you do that you will see no issue with centralized craptoexchanges being transformed into government-regulated platforms.

[Gachapin]

now that the Blackrock ETF news gets echoed in mainstream media, price begins to dump.... call me shocked   

[LFC_Bitcoin]

now that the Blackrock ETF news gets echoed in mainstream media, price begins to dump.... call me shocked   

Saylor also announced Microstrategy buying more, we always dump when that happens.

Be really bullish if we survive this retest of $30,000 and turn it into support. Would set us up nicely for the next leg up.