Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JimboToronto]

I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

I think it's based on CET.

[Elwar]

Also, for all those people that vouch for anarchy but do have Bitcoins.... Do you really think you would be able to keep hodling them when someone went to beat you to death until you gave your private keys to them... because they have the "means" and "freedom" to take it from you?

Someone stole 85 bitcoins from me, I let the localbitcoins community know what/who to watch out for. The only response the police gave me was seizing all of my computers/cell phones/money and investigating me for money laundering.

After over a year they finally returned everything to me (everything useless because I already had to replace everything plus who knows what they added to all of my devices).


My thought on preventing such a thing from happening is some sort of "reputation coin" where everyone has a reputation that can be looked up and anyone who has dealt with that person can report on them (like yelp/ebay). Anyone who is a fraud or violent will be punished by society due to nobody wanting to deal with them and taking precautions when they're around.

[Ibian]

"reputation coin"

That will never be abused at all.

[Elwar]

"reputation coin"

That will never be abused at all.

Yes, because the one sentence I typed saying "some sort of" covered the entirety of it including how to discourage abuse.

 

[Nam3]

I am pretty sure that you are correct on both counts, that the ATH is measured based on Bitstamp prices, which current ATH would be $4,980 (or maybe $4,979.90 or some variation of such), and I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

 New ATH (per stamp) would be $4979.xx ... We were so close, but then there's a drop and now we're sitting at $47xx

[TipMePlz]

I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

I think it's based on CET.

Yes I can confirm is based on CET.

[Ibian]

"reputation coin"

That will never be abused at all.

Yes, because the one sentence I typed saying "something like" covered the entirety of it including how to discourage abuse.

 

Yes. The idea was aborted before it arrived. Sorry but it's just not gonna work.

[d_eddie]

It is a common misunderstanding that freedom of expression is an unlimited freedom. It isn't. You can't publish clearly racist manifests, etc...
(SNIP)

Lol, the only thing they expressed in a peaceful way is their desire to separate from Spain. Which was promptly declared illegal and hence the following violence. Also, I do not think they expressed or published racist manifests... .

(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.

Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues).

"Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that.

"Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."

Then  

"ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially."

Then it would have become a matter of negotiation.

"We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"

And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist.

That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion.  It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.

Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand."

Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way.

[Elwar]

"reputation coin"

That will never be abused at all.

Yes, because the one sentence I typed saying "something like" covered the entirety of it including how to discourage abuse.

 

Yes. The idea was aborted before it arrived. Sorry but it's just not gonna work.

I hope the folks over at Divine read your in-depth research before going through the trouble.

[Ibian]

"reputation coin"

That will never be abused at all.

Yes, because the one sentence I typed saying "something like" covered the entirety of it including how to discourage abuse.

 

Yes. The idea was aborted before it arrived. Sorry but it's just not gonna work.

I hope the folks over at Divine read your in-depth research before going through the trouble.

Never heard about them.

[BlindMayorBitcorn]

Also, for all those people that vouch for anarchy but do have Bitcoins.... Do you really think you would be able to keep hodling them when someone went to beat you to death until you gave your private keys to them... because they have the "means" and "freedom" to take it from you?

Someone stole 85 bitcoins from me, I let the localbitcoins community know what/who to watch out for. The only response the police gave me was seizing all of my computers/cell phones/money and investigating me for money laundering.

After over a year they finally returned everything to me (everything useless because I already had to replace everything plus who knows what they added to all of my devices).


My thought on preventing such a thing from happening is some sort of "reputation coin" where everyone has a reputation that can be looked up and anyone who has dealt with that person can report on them (like yelp/ebay). Anyone who is a fraud or violent will be punished by society due to nobody wanting to deal with them and taking precautions when they're around.

My local bucket shop will courier stacks of cash to my doorstep. If only you'd hodled.

[Arriemoller]

So, I just got around to looking at the news on my computer. And they said that the president of Catalonia signed a document of independence, but it won't take effect until a couple of weeks.
Not quite the same thing as no independence. The game continues.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

EDIT: other news channel and some shit.

[bitserve]

(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.

Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues).

"Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that.

"Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."

Then  

"ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially."

Then it would have become a matter of negotiation.

"We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"

And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist.

That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion.  It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.

Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand."

Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way.

All very valid points yes. I would argue that in Spain the judicial power is decoupled from the executive goverment. It is in fact in the constitution:

The Spanish Constitution guarantees respect for the essential principles necessary for the correct functioning of the judiciary:

    Impartiality: to guarantee the assured effective judicial trusteeship to all citizens by the Constitution, judges must remain impartial in cases that they judge and must abstain from cases that they have no reason to enter into.
    Independence: courts and tribunals are independent of all authority or people in the exercise of jurisdictional power.
    Irremovability: judges and magistrates are irremovable and cannot be removed, suspended, separated or retired without cause and with guarantees established by law.
    Responsibility: judges and magistrates are personally responsible for their disciplinary infractions and crimes committed in the exercise of their office; this responsibility can only be required by the established legal disciplinary tract, without interference by the executive or legislative branches of the government or through ordinary legal proceedings.
    Legality: in the exercise of their jurisdictional functions, judges and magistrates are subject to the Constitution and to the rest of the laws just as other branches of government and citizens are.

(I have cut and pasted from wikipedia in english to avoid the hassle of explaining it myself, but it is essentially correct)

But... I won't really argue it because that's just the theory. I am sure the government do have (informal) influence over a at least some judges. I think that's not unlike anywhere else in the world, but I might be wrong on that.

Or maybe you meant that no matter if they are theoretically decoupled but the constitution forced them to declare this "referendum" illegal anyways.

On either case yep, probably the judges had no real choice there.

It's a very complex and critical situation and I just hope it gets solved some day because it has lasted for too long already. Maybe a proper referendum within the law would be the solution, but even that is not that easy because, among other things, what happens with the catalonian people that does NOT want independence even if a slight or not so slight majority decided to? Suddenly they are forced into it? Maybe allow a referendum in each catalonian city where they decide if they want to secede from catalonia and remain in Spain?

No matter how this finally ends, there will be millions of people hurt in some way. And going on forever with this "impass" is maybe even worse. Or not. I don't know, but I don't see any good outcome of all this situation in any case.

Ultimately it seems that it is economy and business who have forced (temporarily) the suspension of this madness. Losing almost 50% of the GDP of a region is no joke at all.

Anyway, coming back to topic. Is it a coincidence that Bitcoin started to rally when the menace of independence inside EU heat up and just right after they declared the process suspended price got back down?

A rally would have been expected already and after a rally always comes some correction when it hit the strongest resistance but... it seems to be perfectly timed on the event. Maybe we are living this shit as some major historical moment and it is just an completely irrelevant "disturbance" in global scale.

[RoomBot]

I am pretty sure that you are correct on both counts, that the ATH is measured based on Bitstamp prices, which current ATH would be $4,980 (or maybe $4,979.90 or some variation of such), and I think that he has been using the UTC clock, too.

 New ATH (per stamp) would be $4979.xx ... We were so close, but then there's a drop and now we're sitting at $47xx

ATH watching is becoming an exciting spectator sport.  This wild BTC ride just gets fun-ner.

[bitserve]

So, I just got around to looking at the news on my computer. And they said that the president of Catalonia signed a document of independence, but it won't take effect until a couple of weeks.
Not quite the same thing as no independence. The game continues.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

EDIT: other news channel and some shit.

Nobody understand what exactly happened. Puigdemont didn't declare independence in his speech and talked about suspension of the process and more "negotiations", so everyone (in all sides) was like WTF!?

After the session ended, the political groups promoting independence signed a document (that wasn't voted nor referred to in the session) that seems to imply that independence is in fact declared.

Very confussing.

[Arriemoller]

(SNIP) NOONE has the right to be above the law and obstruct law enforcement in a task that has been ordered by the Judges. I don't think that is allowed anywhere in the world.

Correct, but elsewhere in the world the judicial power is actually decoupled from the executive (government). Which in Spain it actually isn't - as per la Constitucion, not by some murky deal. So the court order smells like politics, and it looks a bit awkward from abroad. Luckily, actual beatings, brutality and killings were ultimately avoided - not like in Italy (G7) or France (crazy banlieues).

"Decoupled" judges, however, wouldn't probably have ordered anyone to shut down the referendum. Rather, in a normally functional country (which Spain totally is), they would have tried to stifle the effectiveness of the vote by declaring it "void of effects" or something like that.

"Unusual poll ordered by the Catalans at their own expense. This isn't orthodox, but OK, we know the result already."

Then  

"ahem, Houston, we have a problem. We, er, need to move, at least only officially."

Then it would have become a matter of negotiation.

"We (Spaniards) built this hospital. How much is it worth today to you Catalans?"

And then the EU. You can fill their line yourselfif you get my gist.

That said... I would have put all this shitshow to an end way sooner going directly for the promoters of the rebellion.  It is sad and very unfortunate things let go up to this point.

Uh... but it would smell like Franco, stir more shit. Bad move, too. Because the promoters have ample support - not total, granted, but you can't just "punish one to educate one thousand."

Inflexible negotiation with unfavorable financial accounting, that is the soft way.

All very valid points yes. I would argue that in Spain the judicial power is decoupled from the executive goverment. It is in fact in the constitution:

The Spanish Constitution guarantees respect for the essential principles necessary for the correct functioning of the judiciary:

    Impartiality: to guarantee the assured effective judicial trusteeship to all citizens by the Constitution, judges must remain impartial in cases that they judge and must abstain from cases that they have no reason to enter into.
    Independence: courts and tribunals are independent of all authority or people in the exercise of jurisdictional power.
    Irremovability: judges and magistrates are irremovable and cannot be removed, suspended, separated or retired without cause and with guarantees established by law.
    Responsibility: judges and magistrates are personally responsible for their disciplinary infractions and crimes committed in the exercise of their office; this responsibility can only be required by the established legal disciplinary tract, without interference by the executive or legislative branches of the government or through ordinary legal proceedings.
    Legality: in the exercise of their jurisdictional functions, judges and magistrates are subject to the Constitution and to the rest of the laws just as other branches of government and citizens are.

(I have cut and pasted from wikipedia in english to avoid the hassle of explaining it myself, but it is essentially correct)

But... I won't really argue it because that's just the theory. I am sure the government do have (informal) influence over a at least some judges. I think that's not unlike anywhere else in the world, but I might be wrong on that.

Or maybe you meant that no matter if they are theoretically decoupled but the constitution forced them to declare this "referendum" illegal anyways.

On either case yep, probably the judges had no real choice there.

It's a very complex and critical situation and I just hope it gets solved some day because it has lasted for too long already. Maybe a proper referendum within the law would be the solution, but even that is not that easy because, among other things, what happens with the catalonian people that does NOT want independence even if a slight or not so slight majority decided to? Suddenly they are forced into it? Maybe allow a referendum in each catalonian city where they decide if they want to secede from catalonia and remain in Spain?

No matter how this finally ends, there will be millions of people hurt in some way. And going on forever with this "impass" is maybe even worse. Or not. I don't know, but I don't see any good outcome of all this situation in any case.

Ultimately it seems that it is economy and business who have forced (temporarily) the suspension of this madness. Losing almost 50% of the GDP of a region is no joke at all.

Anyway, coming back to topic. Is it a coincidence that Bitcoin started to rally when the menace of independence inside EU heat up and just right after they declared the process suspended price got back down?

A rally would have been expected already and after a rally always comes some correction when it hit the strongest resistance but... it seems to be perfectly timed on the event. Maybe we are living this shit as some major historical moment and it is just an completely irrelevant "disturbance" in global scale.

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

[bitserve]

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

Yeah, see my post above while you were writing yours. As you can see in that video, first Puigdemont talks about asking the parliament to suspend the independence process and keep negotiating. Then after the session ended his group and the CUP signed that document. Go figure.

It is rumored that they have signed an intentionally invalid document as a symbolic move. Until I hear more expert opinions about what does it really means and what are its implications I can't really form a solid opinion about it.

[Arriemoller]

But it's not suspended, just postponed a couple of weeks, se my post right before yours.
He did sign a declaration of independence, to take effect in a couple of weeks.

https://www.svtplay.se/video/15466527/aktuellt/aktuellt-10-okt-21-00-1?start=auto

At 01:28

Yeah, see my post above while you were writing yours. As you can see in that video, first Puigdemont talks about asking the parliament to suspend the independence process and keep negotiating. Then after the session ended his group and the CUP signed that document. Go figure.

sorry, missed that post.

[Arriemoller]

One of the things I really like with the bitcoin forums is the mixed nationalities of the posters. You got the north Americans talking about their stuff and Europeans about theirs, and the Asians trying, but failing because google translate sucks. And we all somehow get involved with each others stuff.
And I suppose the rest of the world is in here too.

For me, born way before the internet it's still mind boggling sometimes that perhaps someone in south America is reading a bitcoin forum in English with a link to a news piece in Swedish television about a crisis in Spain.

[Arriemoller]

That and smartphones and some other stuff is really the science fiction stuff I read about as a kid,(and yes, still do). I mean the stuff we have now is way more advanced than most of the stuff in Asimovs foundation books. Yes I know, we don't have the hyperspace jumping ships and R Daneel yet, but we are getting there fast.