Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Raja_MBZ]

$4,500 next 

Yup, possibly... and then $5000, then new highs.

ETH and ETC have been left in dust for a while, I wonder if they're planning for good recovery now.

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[Arriemoller]

I'm not sure this is the thread to talk about firearms and it's usefulness and other crime stopping properties, but since it's being discussed, I will say "Good Guys with Guns stop Bad Guys with anything." And the famous "When Guns Are Outlawed, only Outlaws will have Guns."

I dunno about you, but if there's a zombie apocalypse or some riot right outside my house, I'd prefer to have one. Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

I'm biased because I'm a soldier. But whatever.

I also used to be a soldier (and still am a gun instructor) and I totally agree with you.

[Arriemoller]

Here's some thuggish state violence you might enjoy.
https://twitter.com/TheLocalSpain/status/914447014162771970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fblogs%2Fthe_slatest%2F2017%2F10%2F01%2Fhundreds_injured_as_spanish_police_beat_up_referendum_voters_in_catalonia.html

State-sponsored violence against the people:
First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country.

Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally).
The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede.

^^ This.

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police.

[JimboToronto]

@infofront

Isn't it time for a new poll?

[El duderino_]

@infofront

Isn't it time for a new poll?

price for end of the year

[Arriemoller]

@infofront

Isn't it time for a new poll?

price for end of the year

Dibs on 10 000

[bitserve]

Here's some thuggish state violence you might enjoy.
https://twitter.com/TheLocalSpain/status/914447014162771970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fblogs%2Fthe_slatest%2F2017%2F10%2F01%2Fhundreds_injured_as_spanish_police_beat_up_referendum_voters_in_catalonia.html

State-sponsored violence against the people:
First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country.

Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally).
The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede.

^^ This.

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police.

They can consider whatever they want, but it isn't.

Spain has 17 "autonomous comunities" which are regions where SOME estatal (there is only ONE state: Spain) competencies have been delegated. Thus they all have their own LOCAL regional representatives... but there is only one President of the Spanish Government and one King (whose function in practice and by law is more "PR" than "ruling").

They do have a president of their region (as do have the other 16) but think about him more as the equivalent of a city major but on a regional level. Regions are not states. So this is more like if tomorrow Las Vegas tried to secede from United States.

Most of spanish people is in favor of the supression of ALL autonomies for the main reason that it represents a HUGE economic burden because of the redundancy of some functions and costs.

And then, there are some regions such as Cataluña that have been as much benefited from this system that they keep "pressing" trying to obtain more and more using the constant "menace" of "independence".

We are completely fed up by that attitude and many consider this is an extortion to the state that should have been put to an stop many years ago.

[jojo69]

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

found the statist fuck

[Arriemoller]

Here's some thuggish state violence you might enjoy.
https://twitter.com/TheLocalSpain/status/914447014162771970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.slate.com%2Fblogs%2Fthe_slatest%2F2017%2F10%2F01%2Fhundreds_injured_as_spanish_police_beat_up_referendum_voters_in_catalonia.html

State-sponsored violence against the people:
First in a country far from you. Then in a country near you. Finally in your country.

Oh, it has been in your country for quite som while now, remember the civil war? (no, not personally).
The Spanish police throwing a few people down the stairs when a state tries to secede is pretty calm compared to throwing the country into a civil war when a state wants to secede.

^^ This.

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police.

They can consider whatever they want, but it isn't.

Spain has 17 "autonomous comunities" which are regions where SOME estatal (there is only ONE state: Spain) competencies have been delegated. Thus they all have their own LOCAL regional representatives... but there is only one President of the Spanish Government and one King (whose function in practice and by law is more "PR" than "ruling").

They do have a president of their region (as do have the other 16) but think about him more as the equivalent of a city major but on a regional level. Regions are not states. So this is more like if tomorrow Las Vegas tried to secede from United States.

Most of spanish people is in favor of the supression of ALL autonomies for the main reason that it represents a HUGE economic burden because of the redundancy of some functions and costs.

And then, there are some regions such as Cataluña that have been as much benefited from this system that they keep "pressing" trying to obtain more and more using the constant "menace" of "independence".

We are completely fed up by that attitude and many consider this is an extortion to the state that should have been put to an stop many years ago.

As I understand it, president Carles Puigdemont Will deklare Catalonia independent 48 hours after a confirmed yes victory. This is how nation states are born.

[jbreher]

https://qz.com/1072907/why-china-is-so-hot-on-bitcoin/

Exclusive "Bitcoin Club" in Beijing, funded by the mining cartel in China.  
Even with a "Faith in Bitcoin" Poker table.  

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/bitcoin-club-poker-2.jpg?quality=80&strip=all&w=940

Most fascinating bit:

Sheer scale

Bitmain’s position as the world’s largest miner is only the tip of Chinese industrial interest on blockchain technology. Last May, a Chinese company called Wanxiang Group, one of the world largest automotive parts makers, sponsored a blockchain hackathon at the Deloitte offices in Rockefeller Center in New York. Wanxiang plans to embed blockchain technology into a new “smart city“—a nine square kilometer plot of land with a planned population of 90,000 people and $30 billion in investment—that it is building from scratch near Hangzhou in eastern China. It was looking for the world’s brightest blockchain developers.

Wanxiang was offering $15,000 to teams who came up with an enticing blockchain project for the smart city, with an additional $1 million in funding. As Wanxiang executive Peter Liang clicked through his slides detailing how blockchains would power everything from the city’s electricity grid to its traffic control system and be embedded in Wanxiang’s factories, the handful of programmers in the room grew both skeptical and awed. “It’s so huge, it’s hard to even believe,” one developer told him.

If anyone knows of a posting to the presentation listed above by Peter Liang, I'd be very interested to view it.

this is a joke ?!?
http://www.trustnodes.com/2017/10/01/bitmain-now-accepts-bitcoin-cash-latest-mining-hardware

“Only BCC payment method is accepted in this batch, please use the exact amount mentioned in your order and complete the payment within one hour. After one hour, the order will expire and your payment may not be detected by the system automatically. If the payment is submitted but the receipt is delayed, we will make your payment “Valid” manually.”

No. Why would you think it would be? Bitcoin Cash returns to Bitcoin the e-commerce use cases that Blockstream and Core threw overboard two years ago. I'm surprised that you seem surprised by this rational consequence.

Actually that news is a few days old.  I remember reading them (over the weekend?) and saw that there was no reaction in BCH price to that news.  In fact BCH just keeps going down in the past few days.  Probably due to the EDA exploiting shenanigan.

https://themerkle.com/bitcoin-cash-network-triggers-another-lower-mining-difficulty-to-keep-the-chain-ahead/

Yeah, about that....

Author JD Buntix is either an idiot, or perhaps more likely a paid propagandist. The number of lies he was able to fit into three short articles is pretty staggering.

[bitserve]

As I understand it, president Carles Puigdemont Will deklare Catalonia independent 48 hours after a confirmed yes victory. This is how nation states are born.

Yup. I have my popcorns ready to watch how this evolves in the next few days. Let's see if they go all in this time and we can finally put an end to this shitshow that have lasted for too long.

[JimboToronto]

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police.

Some people never seem to learn from history.

Here in Canada, Quebecois sovereignty was not a big issue until Pierre Trudeau overreacted to a small amount of violence by a small group of separatists (the FLQ) by invoking the War Measures Act at a time when the majority of Quebecois still wished to remain in Canada.

The result was tragic. Separatist sentiment swelled and Canada faced a serious constitutional crisis.

Fortunately, Trudeau was smart enough to learn from his error, let democracy run its course, and after a series of nail-biting referendums Quebec is still part of Canada and separatist sentiment is on the wane.

Luckily, the UK had enough sense to approach the Scottish separatist crisis democratically and let the people speak. The people decided to stay.

The heavy-handed response of the Spanish government only served to increase support for Catalan independence. The world saw images of bloodied elderly women and ballot boxes being seized.

Then the results came in from the mostly rural areas where voting was not prevented. Polls had shown that a majority had opposed separatism, especially in Barcelona. It seems they prevented mostly non-separatists from voting.

What the world saw was acts of violence against democratic process and a landslide victory for the separatists at the polls. This was a total public relations disaster for the Spanish government. All they had to do to prevent this was to let the referendum proceed. They'd already declared the referendum to be "illegal" and so they could easily declare the results to be null and void if the Yes side won. If the No side won they could have used it to reinforce unity.

Instead they dug themselves deeper in a hole. The American civil war was a blood-soaked disaster with resentment still smoldering to this day, and the Spanish civil war was even worse. Violence is not the answer.

When will they ever learn?

[JayJuanGee]

“Only BCC payment method is accepted in this batch, please use the exact amount mentioned in your order and complete the payment within one hour. After one hour, the order will expire and your payment may not be detected by the system automatically. If the payment is submitted but the receipt is delayed, we will make your payment “Valid” manually.”

Not a joke!
I mean you can't blame them as they openly support Bcash.
Question is will people really wanna pay in Bcash?
If not Bitmain is going to have hard times selling their rigs.
In a way it's smart. Bitmain mines a lot of Bcash due to EDA. If people wanna get new miners they will have to Bcash, which pushes the price. On the other side bitmain again can dump their bcash coins for a higher price and again accumulate cheap.
However I can't imagine Bcash being relevant as an altcoin for a longer period of time. Xapo opened the gates and people dumped. Price is plunging.The same and much more drastic I expect to happen when Coinbase allows it's customers access to the Bcash tokens.
If the PBOC doesn't come up with an announcement that Bcash will be the new ChinaCoin I believe this coins will just fade in the long run.

Correct analysis IMO. I will add my 2 cents: it's unlikely the PBoC will adopt Bcash as the new ChinaCoin.
If I were the PBoC - a control freak among control freaks - I wouldn't go for an "old" coin with a history. I'd make a brand new coin where I (ideally) hope to gather info on all addresses, possibly by making purchases only possible through tethered Yuan.

Well, yeah, a coin that they can control while attempting to maintain an appearance that they are not controlling it - but in the end everyone knows and it will not be able to compete against bitcoin proper.. but it will likely still be introduced and played for what it is worth, even if it will not be able to actually meaningfully and significantly compete against the one and only..... 

[Torque]

Sorry can't help this, but it's on my mind.

Mandalay Bay hotel in Las Vegas. Thick plate glass, tinted windows that can't be opened from the inside. Completely sealed. For climate control purposes as well as to deter jumpers. For someone to shoot out or smash those windows, it would make one hell of a noise. Not to mention the shards of glass raining down into the streets below, hitting anyone in it's path. At least someone would see it or hear it, either inside the hotel or on the street. But no one did.

But what if... the window was still completely intact during the shooting?

Photo from the night during the shooting:
https://i.imgur.com/A2PDtbQ.jpg

Photo of the next morning:
https://i.imgur.com/jbyxsnO.jpg

And if there was only one shooter, then why are there two windows smashed?  

[jbreher]

And then, there are some regions such as Cataluña that have been as much benefited from this system that they keep "pressing" trying to obtain more and more using the constant "menace" of "independence".

We are completely fed up by that attitude and many consider this is an extortion to the state that should have been put to an stop many years ago.

If they were to secede, would that not put an end to the extortion and being fed up?

#justsayin

[bitserve]

But there is only ONE state in Spain. There are some people that seem to want to "secede".... We are fine with that, as long as they do it outside Spanish territory. Maybe they should move to France and try to do that stunt there... I don't think their police will be as soft with their "secesion" attempts.

I think Catalonia considers themselves to be a state, I mean, they even have their own president and police.

Some people never seem to learn from history.

Here in Canada, Quebecois sovereignty was not a big issue until Pierre Trudeau overreacted to a small amount of violence by a small group of separatists (the FLQ) by invoking the War Measures Act at a time when the majority of Quebecois still wished to remain in Canada.

The result was tragic. Separatist sentiment swelled and Canada faced a serious constitutional crisis.

Fortunately, Trudeau was smart enough to learn from his error, let democracy run its course, and after a series of nail-biting referendums Quebec is still part of Canada and separatist sentiment is on the wane.

Luckily, the UK had enough sense to approach the Scottish separatist crisis democratically and let the people speak. The people decided to stay.

The heavy-handed response of the Spanish government only served to increase support for Catalan independence. The world saw images of bloodied elderly women and ballot boxes being seized.

Then the results came in from the mostly rural areas where voting was not prevented. Polls had shown that a majority had opposed separatism, especially in Barcelona. It seems they prevented mostly non-separatists from voting.

What the world saw was acts of violence against democratic process and a landslide victory for the separatists at the polls. This was a total public relations disaster for the Spanish government. All they had to do to prevent this was to let the referendum proceed. They'd already declared the referendum to be "illegal" and so they could easily declare the results to be null and void if the Yes side won. If the No side won they could have used it to reinforce unity.

Instead they dug themselves deeper in a hole. The American civil war was a blood-soaked disaster with resentment still smoldering to this day, and the Spanish civil war was even worse. Violence is not the answer.

When will they ever learn?

You are completely right. But the problem is that once the voting was declared illegal (and it had to be because it is against Spanish Constitution) it was the duty of the government prevent it. I don't really know how it could have been done otherwise.

At least the government had the sense to not use the army but regular law enforcement (Policia Nacional and Guardia Civil) and had orders of minimum intervention.

Ironically, the polls that they were not able to confiscate were the ones in places where the resistance was so fierce that the police could not retrieve them without risking major confrontations. Those surviving polls are the ones that have been used for counting the vote and therefore show an outstanding "Yes" -with more than 100% of the registered votes in many cases-.

[bitserve]

And then, there are some regions such as Cataluña that have been as much benefited from this system that they keep "pressing" trying to obtain more and more using the constant "menace" of "independence".

We are completely fed up by that attitude and many consider this is an extortion to the state that should have been put to an stop many years ago.

If they were to secede, would that not put an end to the extortion and being fed up?

#justsayin

Yep. I, for one, am fed up with the extortion and the economical burden. I would prefer they secede than keep giving them any more concessions.

That said, I would expect them to pay the bill on leaving.

[becoin]

But the problem is that once the voting was declared illegal (and it had to be because it is against Spanish Constitution)

LOL. Since when they care about law?

EU (incl. Spain) funded, trained, organized, and ensured media support for the Nazi gangs in Kiev. It was a coup against democratically elected government of Ukraine and against Ukrainian Constitution.

[jojo69]

But the problem is that once the voting was declared illegal (and it had to be because it is against Spanish Constitution)

LOL. Since when they care about law?

EU (incl. Spain) funded, trained, organized, and ensured media support for the Nazi gangs in Kiev. It was a coup against democratically elected government of Ukraine and against Ukrainian Constitution.

Further, article 1 paragraph 2 of the UN charter and article 2 of the Lisbon treaty, both of which Spain is a signatory to, enshrine the principle of self determination.

"Law" indeed  

[JayJuanGee]

Look at the charts and it really appears that we are currently on a very temporary pause from our current UP.  or UPTREND or whatever we want to call it... so yeah, an additional push down in the range would be o.k... but it seems that we are mostly inclined for UP.. and likely there is some disgruntled altcoin pumpers and anti-bitcoin folk who want hope that bitcoin does not punish them and that possibly they get their own little pumps.  Certainly, I am not writing off the alt pumpers, that's for sure.

Regarding UP.. Surely, I am in a position that is way better than I had expected, and sometimes it remains difficult to replan and reassess and to just consider what it is that you have and how you are going to either preserve it or allow it to grow - to the extent it is inclined to grown.

Generally, my practice has been to set my sell orders in increments about 30% to 50% above the current market price; however, if we have a large dip, such as the 40% dip from mid-September, generally, I will leave my outstanding sell orders - so then they might become a bit ridiculous, even in the 150% higher than the dip price - seemingly unrealistic, too.

Anyhow, as the price goes up, and if if goes up a lot, then there has become some needs for me to look at how my holdings of fiat and BTC is playing out and to perhaps jigger or readjust matters, and sometimes, I just don't really know until I go through some kind of process to consider and reconsider my tentative plan.

In this regard, in recent days, I went through a hypothetical process on one of my trading exchanges, just to consider how sell orders might play out and how many BTC I need to have (and how many dollars I might accumulate) to set my sell orders up to $15k... Yeah... .o.k... o.k... it is a bit of a fantasy, no, and it is nearly 3.5x of current prices.  I have various personalized charts and excel spreadsheets that i have customized and used; however, still was a good drill for me to set sell orders up to $15k in order to attempt to verify some information and whether my created spreadsheet projections line up with a possible real world scenario of filling orders up to $15k. 

Actually, one thing that I realize when I set these high projected sell orders and also when I project on my spreadsheets, there are scenarios that I project that anticipate the possibility of a price explosion that goes straight up 3x or whatever is the number - however, most likely in the real world there is almost never any straight up scenario, so we are nearly inevitably going to have various ups and downs along the way.... even thought there may be a less than 5% chance of going straight up - though I think that my projections account for both scenarios, but not as well for the UP and DOWN along the way scenario because the extent and duration of the DOWN portion of the scenario remains fairly difficult to pinpoint but only to ballpark it.. in such a way that after it plays out, then the specifics become known and the rest of the scenario can be retweaked.