Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[erre]

Bitcoin could have been the #1 and solved all the problems. Instead, it retards itself to 6 tp/s and has been taken over by the likes of Adam "I invented Bitcoin" Back, Gregory Maxwell the Wikipedia troll and Luke "I think the Sun revolves around the Earth" junior. Literally a trio of Retards, at the end of the day they are nothing more than useful idiots who receive their paychecks directly from the Banksters that Bitcoin was invented to destroy. They will go down in history as Liars, shills and idiots who held back Crypto's potential for years and forced the rise of altcoins and bitcoin cash. Oh well. I guess it doesn't matter - We are going to win anyway.

Don't you think you are stressing the scaling debate a little too much?

Biggest blocks could be a solution, but segwit should work too, and if properly developed I think is a much more elegant solution than biggest blocks.

Altcash seems to me even more centralized than core, but what I really think is that there are no evil bankster behind any side, just some pression groups who want to achieve their interest. Zero trust environment, as usual, with powerful personalities both sides, but no evil jew banksters.

I'm glad you buyed @20 usd, I buyed a year later @1000, mined at loss and I have made little profits, but I don't think your "i'm rich in bitcoin" argument is valid when it comes to scaling debate.

I think that everyone should possibly be able to run a full node on a raspberry in afghanistan, this is very important, why you think that 8x tx/s are more important than this? And what happens when 8mb block are full? Don't you think we are going to buy our coffee with 8 mb blocks right?
 

[chopstick]

goymoney is some form of money especially designed to cheat those who use it without knowing all its implications and consequences.

And your inversions of reality and projections here tell me that you must be a special kind of shill.
But your keeping at it now after years and a number of failed attempts at psyops for hostile takeovers is just pathetic. The same would be if you were an honest fool full of butthurt.
 

I'm just telling the truth, the only hostile takeover attempt was Blockstream and it was a success, indeed a major success for the Banking cartels. In the end it only took $75 million, a few useful idiot developers and a troll/shill army to, more or less, take over BTC's development and subvert it away from its original vision , removing it as a threat (for now.) You speak of decentralization and yet BTC is now more centralized than ever - No changes can be made to the Bitcoin protocol without the approval of Adam Back,  Gregory Maxwell and Luke Jr, 3 people who have shown themselves to be not only incompetent but also highly manipulative and who lie constantly. This is not a good situation and BTC will not improve at the protocol level until it moves away from these incredibly toxic individuals. That does not necessarily mean it will not continue to go up in value - but that will be only because of speculators, not fundamentals.

The problem is you think I'm a shill when in reality I'm just a minority voice telling what should be a very obvious truth. But Blockstream has distorted everything so much with the lies and the censorship, it's almost impossible to get through to anyone.

[chopstick]

Bitcoin could have been the #1 and solved all the problems. Instead, it retards itself to 6 tp/s and has been taken over by the likes of Adam "I invented Bitcoin" Back, Gregory Maxwell the Wikipedia troll and Luke "I think the Sun revolves around the Earth" junior. Literally a trio of Retards, at the end of the day they are nothing more than useful idiots who receive their paychecks directly from the Banksters that Bitcoin was invented to destroy. They will go down in history as Liars, shills and idiots who held back Crypto's potential for years and forced the rise of altcoins and bitcoin cash. Oh well. I guess it doesn't matter - We are going to win anyway.

Don't you think you are stressing the scaling debate a little too much?

Biggest blocks could be a solution, but segwit should work too, and if properly developed I think is a much more elegant solution than biggest blocks.

Altcash seems to me even more centralized than core, but what I really think is that there are no evil bankster behind any side, just some pression groups who want to achieve their interest. Zero trust environment, as usual, with powerful personalities both sides, but no evil jew banksters.

I'm glad you buyed @20 usd, I buyed a year later @1000, mined at loss and I have made little profits, but I don't think your "i'm rich in bitcoin" argument is valid when it comes to scaling debate.

I think that everyone should possibly be able to run a full node on a raspberry in afghanistan, this is very important, why you think that 8x tx/s are more important than this? And what happens when 8mb block are full? Don't you think we are going to buy our coffee with 8 mb blocks right?
 

I'm not rich at all, but my point is that many thousands are getting into bitcoin just recently because of it's increase in popularity, they read censored forums which are intentionally manipulated and then they are engaging in obvious groupthink psychological manipulation - This is a pretty obvious tactic that has been often used by various intelligence agencies of the world. People who got into BTC earlier, IE 2011-2012 generally aren't as likely to fall for Blockstream's manipulation, censorship and misinformation tactics. And those are the ones who are now being ostracized from the community. This points to a complete rewrite of the original BTC community, it's intentions, its code, its purpose, and its future. Satoshi's Bitcoin is dead. Now it's BlockstreamCoin - A Bitcoin NOT meant to compete with FIAT, or meant to compete with banks, but rather a settlement layer for the Rich and a speculator toy to play around with on exchanges. That's Blockstream's vision. Forget about the masses. Blockstream firmly believes that FIAT is superior to Crypto (after all that's what they get paid in) --- and Bitcoin should just be a settlement layer primarily used by the already-Rich and Speculators. Christ, I can't believe it even has to be argued - it's so obvious that Blockstream are the corporate takeover of Bitcoin that it makes my eyes bleed.

[Ibian]

Bitcoin could have been the #1 and solved all the problems. Instead, it retards itself to 6 tp/s and has been taken over by the likes of Adam "I invented Bitcoin" Back, Gregory Maxwell the Wikipedia troll and Luke "I think the Sun revolves around the Earth" junior. Literally a trio of Retards, at the end of the day they are nothing more than useful idiots who receive their paychecks directly from the Banksters that Bitcoin was invented to destroy. They will go down in history as Liars, shills and idiots who held back Crypto's potential for years and forced the rise of altcoins and bitcoin cash. Oh well. I guess it doesn't matter - We are going to win anyway.

Don't you think you are stressing the scaling debate a little too much?

Biggest blocks could be a solution, but segwit should work too, and if properly developed I think is a much more elegant solution than biggest blocks.

Altcash seems to me even more centralized than core, but what I really think is that there are no evil bankster behind any side, just some pression groups who want to achieve their interest. Zero trust environment, as usual, with powerful personalities both sides, but no evil jew banksters.

I'm glad you buyed @20 usd, I buyed a year later @1000, mined at loss and I have made little profits, but I don't think your "i'm rich in bitcoin" argument is valid when it comes to scaling debate.

I think that everyone should possibly be able to run a full node on a raspberry in afghanistan, this is very important, why you think that 8x tx/s are more important than this? And what happens when 8mb block are full? Don't you think we are going to buy our coffee with 8 mb blocks right?
 

I'm not rich at all, but my point is that many thousands are getting into bitcoin just recently because of it's increase in popularity, they read censored forums which are intentionally manipulated and then they are engaging in obvious groupthink psychological manipulation - This is a pretty obvious tactic that has been often used by various intelligence agencies of the world. People who got into BTC earlier, IE 2011-2012 generally aren't as likely to fall for Blockstream's manipulation, censorship and misinformation tactics. And those are the ones who are now being ostracized from the community. This points to a complete rewrite of the original BTC community, it's intentions, its code, its purpose, and its future. Satoshi's Bitcoin is dead. Now it's BlockstreamCoin - A Bitcoin NOT meant to compete with FIAT, or meant to compete with banks, but rather a settlement layer for the Rich and a speculator toy to play around with on exchanges. That's Blockstream's vision. Forget about the masses. Blockstream firmly believes that FIAT is superior to Crypto (after all that's what they get paid in) --- and Bitcoin should just be a settlement layer primarily used by the already-Rich and Speculators. Christ, I can't believe it even has to be argued - it's so obvious that Blockstream are the corporate takeover of Bitcoin that it makes my eyes bleed.

Less words that say more, and paragraphs.

[Karartma1]

BTC is going to the moon long term. Don't worry about the relatively minor short term price fluctations. Just get as many as you can and don't cash any out until at least 10K, even if it takes a year. No one here has patience it seems. It will happen.

You seemed very reasonable and forward looking back then. What happened to you in the meanwhile if I may ask?
Only one thing from my side: why do you keep on talking about +100$ fees? Why do you still keep on thinking them in USD? I think you don't need to look at them in USD but in satoshis: that changes the perspective on the matter.

As for the rest, I mean, peace man. Have some Carolina with us  

[AlcoHoDL]

As for the rest, I mean, peace man. Have some Carolina with us  

Time to cool down and have patience. Carolina is coming soon...

[chopstick]

BTC is going to the moon long term. Don't worry about the relatively minor short term price fluctations. Just get as many as you can and don't cash any out until at least 10K, even if it takes a year. No one here has patience it seems. It will happen.

You seemed very reasonable and forward looking back then. What happened to you in the meanwhile if I may ask?
Only one thing from my side: why do you keep on talking about +100$ fees? Why do you still keep on thinking them in USD? I think you don't need to look at them in USD but in satoshis: that changes the perspective on the matter.

As for the rest, I mean, peace man. Have some Carolina with us  

What happened was the bloody blocksize debate turned me half-crazy.

You're probably right, I need to sit back and have a beer. Since I am one of those speculators, I'm still benefiting from the rise of Bitcoin. I just wanted to see BTC to change the world. Maybe it still can. But for everyday commerce and transactions, it will have to be another coin. Either way, Crypto is changing the world and will continue to do so.

[Last of the V8s]

[Karartma1]

A generation ago, multi-user time-sharing computer systems had a similar problem. Before strong encryption, users had to rely on password protection to secure their files, placing trust in the system administrator to keep their information private. Privacy could always be overridden by the admin based on his judgment call weighing the principle of privacy against other concerns, or at the behest of his superiors. Then strong encryption became available to the masses, and trust was no longer required. Data could be secured in a way that was physically impossible for others to access, no matter for what reason, no matter how good the excuse, no matter what.

It's time we had the same thing for money. With e-currency based on cryptographic proof, without the need to trust a third party middleman, money can be secure and transactions effortless.

http://p2pfoundation.ning.com/forum/topics/bitcoin-open-source

Bitcoin has already changed the world. At least it changed the way we see the world. This is a long conversation that does not fit in the space of a forum and this is not the right thread to discuss over these things.

[becoin]

Wasn't Tor browser invented to enable dissidents in the rogue countries to circumvent censorship and surveillance? Why is it most used in the US? What's wrong with its white paper?

[erre]

I'm not rich at all, but my point is that many thousands are getting into bitcoin just recently because of it's increase in popularity, they read censored forums which are intentionally manipulated and then they are engaging in obvious groupthink psychological manipulation - This is a pretty obvious tactic that has been often used by various intelligence agencies of the world. People who got into BTC earlier, IE 2011-2012 generally aren't as likely to fall for Blockstream's manipulation, censorship and misinformation tactics. And those are the ones who are now being ostracized from the community. This points to a complete rewrite of the original BTC community, it's intentions, its code, its purpose, and its future. Satoshi's Bitcoin is dead. Now it's BlockstreamCoin - A Bitcoin NOT meant to compete with FIAT, or meant to compete with banks, but rather a settlement layer for the Rich and a speculator toy to play around with on exchanges. That's Blockstream's vision. Forget about the masses. Blockstream firmly believes that FIAT is superior to Crypto (after all that's what they get paid in) --- and Bitcoin should just be a settlement layer primarily used by the already-Rich and Speculators. Christ, I can't believe it even has to be argued - it's so obvious that Blockstream are the corporate takeover of Bitcoin that it makes my eyes bleed.

As you already understood, you have to relax bro

We are changing the world more than anyone could had dreamed some years ago, and the game is still going.
I belive that blockstream is interested only in profits, like any other big player, no hidden agenda. If we are lucky enough the financial system will self-destruct itself for profits, I think there is no other way to eventually substitute fiat than let the bankster do the work.

[bitcoinPsycho]

C'mon already...

looking at the 4 hour optamisum chart we should  hit $7400 in a few hours 

[spiderbrain]

As someone who bought their first Bitcoin in 2012 for $20,

Indeed, I can't help but laugh at all the thousands of newcomers who just read r/bitcoin and suddenly think they are scaling experts. That Bitcoin should be able to run a node on every Raspberry Pi in Afghanistan. Yada yada yada. This is psychologically manipulated groupthink. Let's face it - many of the people getting into Bitcoin today are "newbies" who weren't very smart or educated in the first place. But they all like to act like they are, ESPECIALLY when it comes to their opinions on the Blocksize debate - an opinion that was only formed through reddit. Oh boy do they love repeating those opinions, and screaming down anyone who disagrees, like a bunch of drunken fratboys who think they are about to lose their virginity. Only a very small minority are capable of using logic or reason.

It's both amusing and kind of sickening to watch happen.

Anyway, now that the dust has settled and the "1mb forever" crowd has won, Legacy Bitcoin will likely never scale in any meaningful kind of way - Meaning Legacy BTC will never be anything more than a speculator's toy to get rich, a gateway to altcoins and FIAT and a settlement layer.

However, I still fully expect the combined speculator and institutional investor money to take Legacy Bitcoin to 50 - 100K and beyond. However, it will become impossible to move coin at some point on the main chain , with $100+ fees, making a very large percentage of BTC wallets unspendable. At that point, the vast majority of Crypto users and commerce will have already moved to either Bitcoin Cash, Monero or Ethereum. In the long long run, 5+ years, I fully expect either Bitcoin Cash, Monero or Ethereum to become the #1 coin with the highest market cap. It's inevitable now that Bitcoin will never scale - and let's be honest, Lightning Network will either never exist or will never deliver as promised --- which means BTC is going to be stuck where it is now from the scaling perspective, with only a few band-aids thrown on top, likely forever -- unless the miners finally grow a pair, say enough is enough and stand up to the bought out Corporate shills at Blockstream, but I'm not holding out hope for that outcome at all.

Pretty much how I see things, too. what was the original bitcoin project is now scattered to the wind, not that segwit2x was any better. The actual process of getting people onto the payment network and putting a little cash into a decentralised value system is now on hold until the people who object to the fintech takeover of bitcoin can agree on which of the myriad other options to have as a new common standard. This may take ages. I personally have stopped introducing people to bitcoin and getting them to try it out because it no longer works very well, and core's plan is to never improve the situation. Not to mention that the ASIC arms race is turning into an environmental disaster.

[spiderbrain]

I'm just telling the truth, the only hostile takeover attempt was Blockstream and it was a success, indeed a major success for the Banking cartels.

I also see the centralisation of ASIC mining as a form of takeover, so I'm not that much of a BCH fan, either, but at least they have an intention of on chain scaling.

[ragnar0k]

C'mon already...

looking at the 4 hour optamisum chart we should  hit $7400 in a few hours  

<== Runs to buy more BTCs

[spiderbrain]

love it.

[conspirosphere.tk]

The actual process of getting people onto the payment network and putting a little cash into a decentralised value system is now on hold until the people who object to the fintech takeover of bitcoin can agree on which of the myriad other options to have as a new common standard. This may take ages.

There is no need of any common standard except bitcoin. Anyone can build his own upper layer on it or setup his own bitcoinbank interfaced with Visa, Paypal, etc (like some are actually doing BTW).

It's just the insane idea of storing any b/s tx on a distributed blockchain for eternity which has burned in flames -hopefully once for all.

[Neo_Coin]

Forbes: Digital Gold or better PayPal? :

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ktorpey/2017/11/09/failure-segwit2x-shows-bitcoin-digital-gold-not-paypal/#737fc4342233

 

[julian071]

Well, now that it's settled that BTC is strictly digital gold, the altcoinmarket has certainly become more interesting. Which will end up to be the digital cash? Place your bets, gentlemen.

[Elwar]

Well, now that it's settled that BTC is strictly digital gold, the altcoinmarket has certainly become more interesting. Which will end up to be the digital cash? Place your bets, gentlemen.

I think Lightning Network Coin will win out.