Bitcoin Forum
November 27, 2020, 08:56:36 PM *
News: Bitcointalk Community Awards
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Poll
Question: When ATH?
Nov. 2020 - 47 (36.2%)
Dec. 2020 - 43 (33.1%)
Jan. 2021 - 14 (10.8%)
Feb. 2021 - 5 (3.8%)
Mar. 2021 - 5 (3.8%)
After Mar. 2021 - 16 (12.3%)
Total Voters: 130

Pages: « 1 ... 18806 18807 18808 18809 18810 18811 18812 18813 18814 18815 18816 18817 18818 18819 18820 18821 18822 18823 18824 18825 18826 18827 18828 18829 18830 18831 18832 18833 18834 18835 18836 18837 18838 18839 18840 18841 18842 18843 18844 18845 18846 18847 18848 18849 18850 18851 18852 18853 18854 18855 [18856] 18857 18858 18859 18860 18861 18862 18863 18864 18865 18866 18867 18868 18869 18870 18871 18872 18873 18874 18875 18876 18877 18878 18879 18880 18881 18882 18883 18884 18885 18886 18887 18888 18889 18890 18891 18892 18893 18894 18895 18896 18897 18898 18899 18900 18901 18902 18903 18904 18905 18906 ... 27620 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion  (Read 24498513 times)
This is a self-moderated topic. If you do not want to be moderated by the person who started this topic, create a new topic. (153 posts by 40 users deleted.)
bitserve
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1237


Self made HODLER ✓


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:18:59 AM

Haha, so now the trolls are in an uproar because of the thought that Bitcoin maximalists won't even bother to hold altcoins because they know that such can be traded for as needed for day-to-day transactions?

Well they should be. Because Bitcoin is digital gold, that only has value that continues to increase because people to choose to hold it long term and not spend it.

Altcoins, not so much.

Trading BTC to altcoins "as needed for day-to-day transactions" is pointless. You will incur in more fees (exchanging, txs, etc) instead of avoiding them. At least until Bitcoin deploys LN and/or increase blocksize... but then it wouldn't be needed to use any altcoin.

So, in some way, this situation is forcing us to hold a higher percentage of altcoins than what we would be initially willing/comfortable to. Maybe that is even good for some people, or they think so because of the shorter term higher gains we have involuntarily experienced... but I don't think that is sustainable in the longer run.


When I first heard about Bitcoin, I fully bought in to the whole "digital currency is better in every way to fiat for online purchases" line. Only problem though, is that unless you are trying to buy something illegal, it really isn't better than fiat.

In the past 4 years, I've never come across a single scenario where going through the hassle of buying Bitcoin, getting charged the fee, waiting 3-4 days for it, then spending it online for something, transaction fee, waiting for confirmation, was in any way better or faster than just using a credit card or online bank account. The fee for purchasing the bitcoin + the waiting + the fee for the spending transaction + the time for confirmation just never outweighed just spending my fiat directly in the first place.

Truly, something like Lightning Network is the ONLY way Bitcoin is ever going to have a chance to compete with worldwide fiat transaction systems by giving people an INCENTIVE to buy bitcoin for that purpose. Meaning that it actually HAS TO BE better and faster than using fiat systems online for spending. Even then, I just don't see most people buying bitcoin for the purpose of turning around and immediately spending it online. I just don't.

I do agree with most you have said there, but I do have some minor discrepancies:

- LN is the real scaling solution. The only way to compete with other payment systems like paypal (great for online purchses), credit/debit cards (great for in person purchases and also online in some way), or cash. All three are inmediate and the cost is reasonable or even 0.

But.... LN is not ready YET. I think many of us overestimated its development status when -almost half a year ago- thought it be the final push into mainstream readiness for Bitcoin. At the same time, maybe also underestimated the rate of new users/investors that were to come in the following months.

I won't blame the multiple attacks Bitcoin has and keeps receiving because that was something more than expected. Bitcoin has to be resilient to those attacks, to the FUD, to the growth... We can't expect attackers wait till we are ready to fight nor users/adopters to just hold on... not if there are alternative choices that could be taken.

I have always said that whilst LN is the only SCALABLE solution it will also need a *minimal* increase in blocksize of the underlaying blockchain more sooner than later.

IF we can agree with that (maybe some people don't agree, it seems) AND unless LN is already around the corner (which it seems it is not).... why not do that small blocksize increase now as a temporary fix for the current network congestion (a fact... whatever the multiple causes including intentional spam) in the meantime?

No, the fees don't impact me that much.... at least not directly since I am mostly a hodler. But I have run out of arguments to advise people why they should buy Bitcoin instead of some other altcoin UNLESS they plan to buy in big chunks (like at least one full BTC). I can't give anyone some small BTC gift and show them how great and easy it is to USE it. No, if I want someone to show the tech I need to resort to something like LTC or whatever shit so I can show them the process of having a wallet, transfering and controlling their own coins etc...

That's sad. Maybe that is how it need to be. And I can't complain about the gains I have been having even recently... we are doing great yeah... But... is this really sustainable in the long run?

I am worried it isn't.

That said, I will hodl! Because I have hope the current situation will get addressed before its too late.
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
1606510596
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1606510596

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1606510596
Reply with quote  #2

1606510596
Report to moderator
bones261
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1806
Merit: 1823



View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:21:23 AM

Buywall 450.  These bags are going to be heavy.  Creating a new army of desperate trolls.

Where are you watching this data?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfHJDLoGInM
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 2018


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:24:23 AM

https://www.bitstamp.net/market/tradeview/

Choose BCH / BTC

Buywall at 0.21 is 348
HairyMaclairy
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 2018


Degenerate bull hatter & Bitcoin monotheist


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:30:52 AM

Buywall broken.   BCH falling.
d_eddie
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1246
Merit: 1031



View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:33:22 AM

I have always said that whilst LN is the only scalable solution it will also need a *minimal* increase in blocksize of the underlaying blockchain more sooner than later.

IF we can agree with that (maybe some people don't agree, it seems) AND unless LN is already around the corner (which it seems it is not).... why not do that small blocksize increase now as a temporary fix for the current network congestion (a fact... whatever the multiple causes including intentional spam) in the meantime?

Because any small increase can be spammed for a small increase of the cost.
We need more competition among miners. If possible, we need it before LN even launches, or at least takes off. Onchain transaction fees will likely increase when LN works at full regimen. In any case, we must make sure that when the would-be spammers want to disrupt LN, they tackle that wall of higher fees without the significant "miner monopoly discount" they have right now.
Torque
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2324
Merit: 1863



View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:38:05 AM

I do agree with most you have said there, but I do have some minor discrepancies:
I pretty much agree with everything you have stated, see below:

- LN is the real scaling solution. The only way to compete with other payment systems like paypal (great for online purchses), credit/debit cards (great for in person purchases and also online in some way), or cash. All three are inmediate and the cost is reasonable or even 0.
Agree completely. Until Bitcoin can match this ease of use and low friction, it can't compete.

But.... LN is not ready YET. I think many of us overestimated its development status when -almost half a year ago- thought it be the final push into mainstream readiness for Bitcoin. At the same time, maybe also underestimated the rate of new users/investors that were to come in the following months.
LN being behind schedule is disappointing seeing that we were being told by devs that it had been fully tested, was ready to go, just needed SegWit. That turned out to be misleading by a mile, and upset many of us.

I won't blame the multiple attacks Bitcoin has and keeps receiving because that was something more than expected. Bitcoin has to be resilient to those attacks, to the FUD, to the growth... We can't expect attackers wait till we are ready to fight nor users/adopters to just hold on... not if there are alternative choices that could be taken.
Agree

I have always said that whilst LN is the only scalable solution it will also need a *minimal* increase in blocksize of the underlaying blockchain.
Agree and Core has said as much. The trolls and BCash shills like to ignore that fact.

IF we can agree with that (maybe some people don't agree, it seems) AND unless LN is already around the corner (which it seems it is not).... why not do that small blocksize increase now as a temporary fix for the current network congestion (a fact... whatever the multiple causes including intentional spam) in the meantime?
Not disagreeing completely, but the spam attacks have completely muddied the waters on that one. Thanks to the spammers, no one can get a clear picture of what the network traffic truly looks like right now. And when spamming is not happening, backlog and fees are low, in many cases completely reasonable. So that does not bode well for the 'raise the block size' argument.


No, the fees don't impact me that much.... at least not directly since I am mostly a hodler. But I have run out of arguments to advise people why they should buy Bitcoin instead of some other altcoin UNLESS they plan to buy in big chunks (like at least one full BTC). I can't give anyone some small BTC gift and show them how great and easy it is to USE it. No, if I want someone to show the tech I need to resort to something like LTC or whatever shit so I can show them the process of having a wallet, transfering and controlling their own coins etc...

That's sad. Maybe that is how it need to be. And I can't complain about the gains I have been having lately... we are doing great yeah... But... is this really sustainable in the long run?

I don't disagree entirely about the tech use. But take an honest assessment for a sec. Do you friends or family really want to get into Bitcoin for spending, or are they really interested because they see the gains and want in as an investment? I don't know a single person that was interested in Bitcoin (for any reason) when the price was either going down, or just sat there doing nothing. Not one. They truly did not care just to USE it for spending.
sirazimuth
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2100
Merit: 1684


born once atheist


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:40:29 AM

[ ... ]

I don't own a cellphone.

Thanks for that information. It is very helpful in putting things in perspective.

Of course that delusional twat doesnt own a cell phone.
Cell phones are all controlled by the jew deep state cuckolds or whatever the fuck his latest
nosensical diatribe is about. That character with his endless repeating pm blathering is a parody of himself.
Why the fuck he wastes his time in here being the laughing stock of the thread is beyond me.
Oh well I guess he's like just part of the furniture around here. You just kinda get used to it,
roll yer eyes and move on....
gentlemand
Legendary
*
Online Online

Activity: 2562
Merit: 2948


Welt Am Draht


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:41:54 AM

Oh well I guess he's like just part of the furniture around here.

I'd feel more well disposed towards him if I could use him as an armchair. Probably smells though.
AlcoHoDL
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1106
Merit: 1197


Addicted to HoDLing!


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:44:40 AM

Neo_Coin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 285


"Be Your Own Bank"


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:54:58 AM

Buywall broken.   BCH falling.

Neo_Coin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 285


"Be Your Own Bank"


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 12:58:22 AM

roach_lost
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 27
Merit: 0


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:01:05 AM


If BTC were to lose the number 1 position, it is highly unlikely that it would be replaced by another PoW coin. PoS is more likely and it actually would make for a more elegant ultimate track and control blockchain based fiat than bitcoin which is already a close approximation to this monster in itself.

Now if BTC were to be abandoned by the miners in favor of BCH then I could see BTC continuing in that form for some time longer. It is a legitimate fork, this is just a weird (considering the amounts involved) and temporary situation.
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:01:21 AM
Last edit: January 03, 2018, 01:59:50 AM by realr0ach

LN is the real scaling solution.

LN is an unworkable train wreck without putting all channel closings in the same common permissioned queue (meaning completely centralized).  The fact these systems are built around a finite block size means humans can easily attack that bottleneck by flooding it with channel closings.  Since it can be flooded, you're required to buffer them and either discard low payers or put them at the back of the line just like regular bitcoin mempool.

From that point, you either have to design as a hub and spoke model just like what Mike Hearn claimed, where the Lightning node is a bitcoin bank and everyone who uses it is their peon slaves to extract usury upon, or every lightning node broadcasts a shared queue with each other.  But due to the fact that people can try to flood the queue as mentioned earlier, each lightning node will have their own criteria for what is or isn't spam, or who is and isn't a terrorist that they will broadcast to other nodes (meaningly INSANELY PERMISSIONED, cartel coordinated, and usury based).  The nodes might also be incentivized NOT to broadcast and force a hub and spoke model for their own gain.

If a Lightning node constantly broadcasts flood bullshit to everyone, they will likely be blacklisted by other Lightning nodes (lightning banks, whatever you want to call them), so the entire system is based around things like trusted and untrusted members, subjective anti-spam filters, etc.  In other words, for Lightning to work at all, it would probably be the most permissioned centralized piece of garbage ever to exist.  No real difference from having an account at Bank of America, and ironcially, the govt will likely legislate who is and isn't allowed to run these Lightning nodes, meaning Bank of America or Goldman Sachs will run them.

At least this is my understanding of the problems one has to overcome to create such system.  The fact bitcoin is not decentralized and it's impossible to create a decentralized digital currency in the first place, also means anyone claiming Lightning is going to be "decentralized" is a complete idiot when it's built on top of bitcoin.
bitserve
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1372
Merit: 1237


Self made HODLER ✓


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:07:58 AM

Just turn off “Listen for Hey Siri”

That just stops Siri from loading up, doesn't stop listening though

It does. What do you think security researchers do both in their work/free time? You can clearly check that one by:

- Energy consumption lowers slightly in comparison to when it is waiting/"hearing" for the voice command.
- The voice command "Siri" is not sent to the network. It is one of the few commands that the device itself detects on its own. After it is activated, YES, it does send your audio to their cloud for analysis. They are not suppossed to legally save records of it not have been known any single known case where that has happened... But if you are paranoid about it, just don't fucking talk to Siri. DIsable it. You are good to go.

P.S.: If you ask siri for directions... YES, of course expect Siri (the cloud part of it) will remember that and show you related ads. It's clearly stated in the terms of use btw.

P.S.: There are additional reasons to disable Siri for reacting to voice starting because it has been exploited in the past by tricking it into giving access to the device as it was possible to access it without unlocking the terminal.
LewisPirenne
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 140
Merit: 100


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:11:39 AM
Last edit: December 24, 2017, 01:23:13 AM by LewisPirenne

This is merely a public service announcement.  Our 35K BTC spamming whale is back with his batches of tx.

As discussed a few days ago, this 35K BTC whale address started spamming on Dec 20,

https://blockchain.info/address/19Rd2Z4ckdPEs34KEmKpbddpK7ngp1sR6g

but he stopped after BTC bottomed at 10K and specifically with the green candlestick that goes from 13K to 14.8K.

But now he is back, paying 1k satoshi/byte, despite optimal fee for getting into next block at around 400~500 satoshi/byte.  

https://blockchain.info/address/197D9cfnEM3NwBGsmw4N99h18pkosoufkf
https://blockchain.info/tx/56a314ac0e58fe97daf97d75b73f8b6b4660488f099ffd37c22a774d2971420d

Note the coincidental downturn in the chart and those who trade the market can derive whatever conclusion they wish.  

For those interested in fee market, we are now down to backlogs with 400 satoshi/byte txs.  So for those who believes that it's mining cartel price gouging rather than whale manipulation, this is a data point for future reference on possible cartel price fixing scheme.
Gab0
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 283
Merit: 127



View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:12:28 AM

I do agree with most you have said there, but I do have some minor discrepancies:

- LN is the real scaling solution. The only way to compete with other payment systems like paypal (great for online purchses), credit/debit cards (great for in person purchases and also online in some way), or cash. All three are inmediate and the cost is reasonable or even 0.

But.... LN is not ready YET. I think many of us overestimated its development status when -almost half a year ago- thought it be the final push into mainstream readiness for Bitcoin. At the same time, maybe also underestimated the rate of new users/investors that were to come in the following months.

I won't blame the multiple attacks Bitcoin has and keeps receiving because that was something more than expected. Bitcoin has to be resilient to those attacks, to the FUD, to the growth... We can't expect attackers wait till we are ready to fight nor users/adopters to just hold on... not if there are alternative choices that could be taken.

I have always said that whilst LN is the only SCALABLE solution it will also need a *minimal* increase in blocksize of the underlaying blockchain more sooner than later.

IF we can agree with that (maybe some people don't agree, it seems) AND unless LN is already around the corner (which it seems it is not).... why not do that small blocksize increase now as a temporary fix for the current network congestion (a fact... whatever the multiple causes including intentional spam) in the meantime?

No, the fees don't impact me that much.... at least not directly since I am mostly a hodler. But I have run out of arguments to advise people why they should buy Bitcoin instead of some other altcoin UNLESS they plan to buy in big chunks (like at least one full BTC). I can't give anyone some small BTC gift and show them how great and easy it is to USE it. No, if I want someone to show the tech I need to resort to something like LTC or whatever shit so I can show them the process of having a wallet, transfering and controlling their own coins etc...

That's sad. Maybe that is how it need to be. And I can't complain about the gains I have been having even recently... we are doing great yeah... But... is this really sustainable in the long run?

I am worried it isn't.

That said, I will hodl! Because I have hope the current situation will get addressed before its too late.

Well said.

Neo_Coin
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 1148
Merit: 285


"Be Your Own Bank"


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:25:17 AM

jbreher
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2884
Merit: 1504


lose: unfind ... loose: untight


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:29:17 AM

The simple act of pinging one of these coins will give off a unique sound wave you can either tell by ear, or you can hold it up to the microphone of a cellphone and your free cellphone app will tell you if the resonance matches and if it's real or not.  A fake silver alloy will not pass.

Last time I saw you post that, I responded asking for a link to -- or at least the name of -- that app. Unless I missed it, you did not reply.
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:30:35 AM

Well said.

That was the opposite of well said.  He didn't explain ANYTHING about how LN is going to solve any of the problems I listed in the quote below.  Bitcoin is a god damn cult of idiots, I swear.  Look at this sirazimuth's guy signature for fucks sake:

"Bitcoin...the future of all monetary transactions...and always will be"

That looks like it was written by a 3 year old.  No reasoning, no nothing.  Just "buy my centralized pump and dump scheme because ...I dunno!"


LN is an unworkable train wreck without putting all channel closings in the same common permissioned queue (meaning completely centralized).  The fact these systems are built around a finite block size means humans can easily attack that bottleneck by flooding it with channel closings.  Since it can be flooded, you're required to buffer them and either discard low payers or put them at the back of the line just like regular bitcoin mempool.

From that point, you either have to design as a hub and spoke model just like what Mike Hearn claimed, where the Lightning node is a bitcoin bank and everyone who uses it is their peon slaves to extract usury upon, or every lightning node broadcasts a shared queue with each other.  But due to the fact that people can try to flood the queue as mentioned earlier, each lightning node will have their own criteria for what is or isn't spam that they will broadcast to other nodes (meaningly INSANELY PERMISSIONED, cartel coordinated, and usury based).  

If a Lightning node constantly broadcasts flood bullshit to everyone, they will likely be blacklisted by other Lightning nodes (lightning banks, whatever you want to call them), so the entire system is based around things like trusted and untrusted members, subjective anti-spam filters, etc.  In other words, for Lightning to work at all, it would probably be the most permissioned centralized piece of garbage ever to exist.  No real difference from having an account at Bank of America, and ironcially, the govt will likely legislate who is and isn't allowed to run these Lightning nodes, meaning Bank of America or Goldman Sachs will run them.

At least this is my understanding of the problems one has to overcome to create such system.  The fact bitcoin is not decentralized and it's impossible to create a decentralized digital currency in the first place, also means anyone claiming Lightning is going to be "decentralized" is a complete idiot when it's built on top of bitcoin.
realr0ach
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 924
Merit: 311


#TheGoyimKnow


View Profile
December 24, 2017, 01:36:52 AM

The simple act of pinging one of these coins will give off a unique sound wave you can either tell by ear, or you can hold it up to the microphone of a cellphone and your free cellphone app will tell you if the resonance matches and if it's real or not.  A fake silver alloy will not pass.

Last time I saw you post that, I responded asking for a link to -- or at least the name of -- that app. Unless I missed it, you did not reply.

There's not just one, there's tons of them.  This is not science rocket people, it's just measuring a sound wave.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.brolinembedded.bulliontestfree&hl=en

http://www.cointrustapp.com/en/index.php

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=se.erming.coinping

Bullion Test App review:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EowEAvJ8QlU
Pages: « 1 ... 18806 18807 18808 18809 18810 18811 18812 18813 18814 18815 18816 18817 18818 18819 18820 18821 18822 18823 18824 18825 18826 18827 18828 18829 18830 18831 18832 18833 18834 18835 18836 18837 18838 18839 18840 18841 18842 18843 18844 18845 18846 18847 18848 18849 18850 18851 18852 18853 18854 18855 [18856] 18857 18858 18859 18860 18861 18862 18863 18864 18865 18866 18867 18868 18869 18870 18871 18872 18873 18874 18875 18876 18877 18878 18879 18880 18881 18882 18883 18884 18885 18886 18887 18888 18889 18890 18891 18892 18893 18894 18895 18896 18897 18898 18899 18900 18901 18902 18903 18904 18905 18906 ... 27620 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!