Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[yonton]

In the next few days the people who took in loans to buy BTC at 18-20 k will start to sell  

We have seen LOTS of shorts squeezed on this rise.  When is the last time you remember seeing some cataclysmic longs squeezed to implode the price?  It hasn't happened since the price was in the $400-800 range probably. Everything is cyclical.  The draught of long squeezes has to invert at some point.

this is because with rising BTC price the value of your collateral for your leverages increases too - atleast this is my view; i usually dont use leverage.

Well, it's mostly because there are people who own like 200,000 coins and can't sell them without imploding the market, so they're essentially illiquid, toxic assets.  On the other hand, they can use their toxic assets as margin collateral to squeeze shorts and also to do pump and dumps.  If you live in a civilization that facilitates people to leverage toxic assets and create a toxic asset at 3x the price of a non-leveraged one, take a good look around because all this shit is going to be crumbling down on top of you soon and that applies to both bitcoin + Wall Street.

Every time the market dumps, it also purges those giant holders from the market. This distributes coins out to more holders which strengthens the market.

Really? You mean besides WuVer? I can't help but think these are recent bag holders dumping, not HODLers!

Nope recent buyers don't have enough coins to move the market like this. It is clearly early adopters cashing out large amounts of coins.

[RejectedBanana]

In the next few days the people who took in loans to buy BTC at 18-20 k will start to sell  

We have seen LOTS of shorts squeezed on this rise.  When is the last time you remember seeing some cataclysmic longs squeezed to implode the price?  It hasn't happened since the price was in the $400-800 range probably. Everything is cyclical.  The draught of long squeezes has to invert at some point.

this is because with rising BTC price the value of your collateral for your leverages increases too - atleast this is my view; i usually dont use leverage.

Well, it's mostly because there are people who own like 200,000 coins and can't sell them without imploding the market, so they're essentially illiquid, toxic assets.  On the other hand, they can use their toxic assets as margin collateral to squeeze shorts and also to do pump and dumps.  If you live in a civilization that facilitates people to leverage toxic assets and create a toxic asset at 3x the price of a non-leveraged one, take a good look around because all this shit is going to be crumbling down on top of you soon and that applies to both bitcoin + Wall Street.

Every time the market dumps, it also purges those giant holders from the market. This distributes coins out to more holders which strengthens the market.

Really? You mean besides WuVer? I can't help but think these are recent bag holders dumping, not HODLers!

Nope recent holders don't have enough coins to move the market like this. It is clearly early adopters cashing out large amounts of coins.

Early adopters don't dump on the exchanges. They call Bobby Cho at Cumberland Mining and sell direct to institutions or high net worth peeps. Min transaction $100,000. Million dollar transactions preferred.

[flounderella]

I've been feeling that the price jump has been built on FOMO speculation for a while now. I think that the real, solid base is around $6k (roughly following the longer-term linear trend), but I expect speculators to stabilize it if it reaches $10k, at the very least, and then those prices might or might not stabilize.

So IMO $6k and below is "solid", $6k-$10k is semi-solid, and everything above $10k is a house of cards. No idea what'll actually happen in the next few days, though; it's pure speculative madness. In the next hour, I wouldn't be surprised to see a drop to $10k or an increase to $16k.

I agree with this. This mostly felt like get-rich-quick types jumping on. Once they are disappointed and broke, we should settle back in around 6-10K and move sideways for a bit, which is not bad. A lot of the altcoin euphoria is out of control as well and there would be serious losses.

[yonton]

I've been feeling that the price jump has been built on FOMO speculation for a while now. I think that the real, solid base is around $6k (roughly following the longer-term linear trend), but I expect speculators to stabilize it if it reaches $10k, at the very least, and then those prices might or might not stabilize.

So IMO $6k and below is "solid", $6k-$10k is semi-solid, and everything above $10k is a house of cards. No idea what'll actually happen in the next few days, though; it's pure speculative madness. In the next hour, I wouldn't be surprised to see a drop to $10k or an increase to $16k.

I agree with this. This mostly felt like get-rich-quick types jumping on. Once they are disappointed and broke, we should settle back in around 6-10K and move sideways for a bit, which is not bad. A lot of the altcoin euphoria is out of control as well and there would be serious losses.

We can do away with 95% of the alts and the market would be much healthier.

[yonton]

In the next few days the people who took in loans to buy BTC at 18-20 k will start to sell  

We have seen LOTS of shorts squeezed on this rise.  When is the last time you remember seeing some cataclysmic longs squeezed to implode the price?  It hasn't happened since the price was in the $400-800 range probably. Everything is cyclical.  The draught of long squeezes has to invert at some point.

this is because with rising BTC price the value of your collateral for your leverages increases too - atleast this is my view; i usually dont use leverage.

Well, it's mostly because there are people who own like 200,000 coins and can't sell them without imploding the market, so they're essentially illiquid, toxic assets.  On the other hand, they can use their toxic assets as margin collateral to squeeze shorts and also to do pump and dumps.  If you live in a civilization that facilitates people to leverage toxic assets and create a toxic asset at 3x the price of a non-leveraged one, take a good look around because all this shit is going to be crumbling down on top of you soon and that applies to both bitcoin + Wall Street.

Every time the market dumps, it also purges those giant holders from the market. This distributes coins out to more holders which strengthens the market.

Really? You mean besides WuVer? I can't help but think these are recent bag holders dumping, not HODLers!

Nope recent holders don't have enough coins to move the market like this. It is clearly early adopters cashing out large amounts of coins.

Early adopters don't dump on the exchanges. They call Bobby Cho at Cumberland Mining and sell direct to institutions or high net worth peeps. Min transaction $100,000. Million dollar transactions preferred.

The markets are liquid enough to buy/sell a million $ worth on exchanges easy. OTC isn't as big as people think now.

[RejectedBanana]

In the next few days the people who took in loans to buy BTC at 18-20 k will start to sell  

We have seen LOTS of shorts squeezed on this rise.  When is the last time you remember seeing some cataclysmic longs squeezed to implode the price?  It hasn't happened since the price was in the $400-800 range probably. Everything is cyclical.  The draught of long squeezes has to invert at some point.

this is because with rising BTC price the value of your collateral for your leverages increases too - atleast this is my view; i usually dont use leverage.

Well, it's mostly because there are people who own like 200,000 coins and can't sell them without imploding the market, so they're essentially illiquid, toxic assets.  On the other hand, they can use their toxic assets as margin collateral to squeeze shorts and also to do pump and dumps.  If you live in a civilization that facilitates people to leverage toxic assets and create a toxic asset at 3x the price of a non-leveraged one, take a good look around because all this shit is going to be crumbling down on top of you soon and that applies to both bitcoin + Wall Street.

Every time the market dumps, it also purges those giant holders from the market. This distributes coins out to more holders which strengthens the market.

Really? You mean besides WuVer? I can't help but think these are recent bag holders dumping, not HODLers!

Nope recent holders don't have enough coins to move the market like this. It is clearly early adopters cashing out large amounts of coins.

Early adopters don't dump on the exchanges. They call Bobby Cho at Cumberland Mining and sell direct to institutions or high net worth peeps. Min transaction $100,000. Million dollar transactions preferred.

The markets are liquid enough to buy/sell a million $ worth on exchanges easy. OTC isn't as big as people think now.

Hahaha. Have you tried depositing/withdrawing $1,000,000 from Coinbase? Or Gemini? Or Bitstamp? In one day? Sure you can exchange it with perhaps minimal slippage if you're not panic selling, but good luck getting it out!!!

No thank you sir, I prefer to close on a fatty fat wire direct to my account, same day.

[Elwar]

itBit does OTC very well...that's how I got my bitcoins when I sold my house last year. Usually around $50k a trade.

The limitation was the bank only allowing $25k wire transfer per day.

[realr0ach]

New holocaust started in Germany.  Positive or negative for bitcoin?

http://youtu.be/tREa_BbTRXo?t=46

[stylexing]

I'm quite worried since there will be someone who might take the risk to test this one. This will result in a better consolidation.

[DaRude]

Why make the decision for the user, there's an ignore button that's just as useful, unless of course s/he manages to get another noob to quote him/her.

This is why DaRude. This is why. I would have to put everyone that quotes him on ignore too, which would be like half the people here...

If you can abstract away all his PM shilling and antisemitism then it is not unusual that he brings sound arguments.
I think as a smart person you should be objective and open to sound arguments that go against your opinions.

You're giving him/her too much credit. When it's like a broker record with 50% of posts pushing PMs, 25% about how crypto currency is not decentralized, and 20% about killing jews, i really don't feel like sifting through all that crap searching for that remaining 5%

[realr0ach]

with 50% of posts pushing PMs, 25% about how crypto currency is not decentralized, and 20% about killing jews, i really don't feel like sifting through all that crap searching for that remaining 5%

The answer you seek can be found in the Zerohedge comment section:



All hail leader of the white race, Vlad Putin.

[TERA2]

[orpington]

with 50% of posts pushing PMs, 25% about how crypto currency is not decentralized, and 20% about killing jews, i really don't feel like sifting through all that crap searching for that remaining 5%

The answer you seek can be found in the Zerohedge comment section:



All hail leader of the white race, Vlad Putin.

I personally don't mind the endless PM shilling - its kinda cute really in an old school sense.

The Jewish/Zionist stuff and the misogyny acts as sort of a cherry on top of it all.

The bitcoin bashing is just plain boring.

[Neo_Coin]

[CryptoCharlie]

the question I have is this

mine LTC....pay my income tax on this...say 25% of what was mined....sell on coinbase....and pay (if less than a year) 40% capital gains tax

but

If I mine LTC and pay income tax on this ...again 25% but xfer the LTC to BTC I am hit with another 40% capital gains because in 2018 it is gonna act like cash

and no like kind?

or did I miss something

(if above is correct now I know why BTC and cypto's are crashing)

in USA

Few people pay tax from there bitcoin holdings. And no it doesn't work that way either.

I am fearful that what he says is close to the truth:
https://dcebrief.com/tax-reform-law-eliminates-crypto-tax-loophole/

[Neo_Coin]

[txtravwill]

the question I have is this

mine LTC....pay my income tax on this...say 25% of what was mined....sell on coinbase....and pay (if less than a year) 40% capital gains tax

but

If I mine LTC and pay income tax on this ...again 25% but xfer the LTC to BTC I am hit with another 40% capital gains because in 2018 it is gonna act like cash

and no like kind?

or did I miss something

(if above is correct now I know why BTC and cypto's are crashing)

in USA

Few people pay tax from there bitcoin holdings. And no it doesn't work that way either.

I am fearful that what he says is close to the truth:
https://dcebrief.com/tax-reform-law-eliminates-crypto-tax-loophole/

No it is true.
http://fortune.com/2017/12/21/bitcoin-tax/

But you would pay capital gains on the gains only when you convert.

Thus if you mine it’s the full value since it starts st $0.  So 20k BTC would be 20K of gains when mined and realized into dollars or another crypto.  Then say ya then have 20k of LTC.  If you trade that again to BTC when it’s now worth 25K in LTC/BTC, then u have to pay short or long term gains on that new 5k.

It isn’t double taxation, but it is now an event that triggers the tax.  Used to be only when pulling into fiat.

[Last of the V8s]

Good Lord what a load of bendover bunnies in this thread.
This bitcoin thread.
Talking about paying tax to nation states.
It's not even quaint any more; it's sickening.
Pay your taxes to the bitcoin foundation like a normal bitcoiner and stop colluding with the enemy please and thank you.

[jojo69]

easy to say from a nation that won't actually roll tanks on you

[ErisDiscordia]

Pay your taxes to the bitcoin foundation like a normal bitcoiner and stop colluding with the enemy please and thank you.

lolwut? What are we in 2013?

Agreed on on the paying taxes to nation states part, though.