Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Spaceman_Spiff]

"mbit" will win

Sure, if bitcoin becomes popular and pricey enough, I hope some incarnation of 'mbit', 'mBTC', 'millie' or whatever gets used.   

USD seems to be more popular the Bitcoin, but that isn't a valid reason to use it.

That's a different thing.  I just mean: if everybody uses "USD", I wouldn't use "DXUS" or something like that to describe dollars.
Anyway, I am not trying to be obnoxious, just want to streamline/standardize things.

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[JimboToronto]

wages have not been keeping pace with food and energy price inflation, so it's hard to back up the claim that the price of labor is inflating.

LOL I guess that depends where you live. While minimum wage here inflates more slowly than a gallon of gas, it does still inflate. 20 years ago a cleaning lady cost $10/hr. 10 years ago it was up to $15. Now I pay mine $20 or she'll go sling beer at the local and make more in tips. Even that's not enough to compete for her cleaning services with the rich guys at the yacht club during the summer.

As for that pound of herbs, the price has actually fallen in recent years.  

[notme]

wages have not been keeping pace with food and energy price inflation, so it's hard to back up the claim that the price of labor is inflating.

LOL I guess that depends where you live. While minimum wage here inflates more slowly than a gallon of gas, it does still inflate. 20 years ago a cleaning lady cost $10/hr. 10 years ago it was up to $15. Now I pay mine $20 or she'll go sling beer at the local and make more in tips. Even that's not enough to compete for her cleaning services with the rich guys at the yacht club during the summer.

As for that pound of herbs, the price has actually fallen in recent years.  

So, exactly like I said.... it is not keeping pace with food and energy price inflation.

[bitcodo]

He must be one of the happy one.

[notme]

He must be one of the happy one.

[Richy_T]

what miners do with those newly minted coints has inevitably an impact on price.

What they are doing with those coins should be fairly easy to analyse. I believe there is a site out there that shows how long coins are stagnant for.

[notme]

what miners do with those newly minted coints has inevitably an impact on price.

What they are doing with those coins should be fairly easy to analyse. I believe there is a site out there that shows how long coins are stagnant for.

Shhh.... we don't like facts and data here.

[ChartBuddy]

[vokain]

problem is, allot of those miners won't get ROI for many months. Knowing this, I would expect most (except for those who took out loans) to choose to wait for higher prices before getting their fiat back.

Exactly, I dont see why on this forums people seem to think that miners want to get ROI as soon as possible. I think 90% of them will just mine and hoard, for years

Most of GPU miners didn't want ROI as soon as possible, as I explained earlier - they counted on reselling their GPUs, and they were mostly hobbyist. But I'm a miner myself, I know a lot of miners, I've seen in first person who are the customers of companies like KnC and how much they are spending, and you have to understand that this last media bubble exposed Bitcoin to a lot of new and uneducated people who run profit calculators at current difficulty (without having their miners yet), they do not even understand that difficulty is growing exponentially, and at the end of the day there is a "gold rush" in which a lot of new people is entering mining because they think they will get rich quick... So we have now a) a lot of individuals investing money they cannot afford to lose on BTC miners, and as you surely know there is a "get-rich-quick" feeling on BTC - they think they will recoup their investment FAST, and this is why they are putting in this game more money they should; b) there are more and more "professional" miners that are investing money in mining with the only intention of generating profit - they will run their operations as a business. That people has to pay for huge electricity costs, renting of industrial places where they will host their operations, etc. etc. etc. A lot of fiat expenses to cover.

During the GPU era, I rarely saw a) and b) miners, most were small-time hobbyist, running their rigs in their bedrooms. During this change to ASIC, I'm seeing a lot of both a) and b). This people needs to recoup fiat ASAP.

I can't imagine too much of an influx of people that don't understand mining economics that spend money on anything more than a jalepeno.

[notme]

problem is, allot of those miners won't get ROI for many months. Knowing this, I would expect most (except for those who took out loans) to choose to wait for higher prices before getting their fiat back.

Exactly, I dont see why on this forums people seem to think that miners want to get ROI as soon as possible. I think 90% of them will just mine and hoard, for years

Most of GPU miners didn't want ROI as soon as possible, as I explained earlier - they counted on reselling their GPUs, and they were mostly hobbyist. But I'm a miner myself, I know a lot of miners, I've seen in first person who are the customers of companies like KnC and how much they are spending, and you have to understand that this last media bubble exposed Bitcoin to a lot of new and uneducated people who run profit calculators at current difficulty (without having their miners yet), they do not even understand that difficulty is growing exponentially, and at the end of the day there is a "gold rush" in which a lot of new people is entering mining because they think they will get rich quick... So we have now a) a lot of individuals investing money they cannot afford to lose on BTC miners, and as you surely know there is a "get-rich-quick" feeling on BTC - they think they will recoup their investment FAST, and this is why they are putting in this game more money they should; b) there are more and more "professional" miners that are investing money in mining with the only intention of generating profit - they will run their operations as a business. That people has to pay for huge electricity costs, renting of industrial places where they will host their operations, etc. etc. etc. A lot of fiat expenses to cover.

During the GPU era, I rarely saw a) and b) miners, most were small-time hobbyist, running their rigs in their bedrooms. During this change to ASIC, I'm seeing a lot of both a) and b). This people needs to recoup fiat ASAP.

I can't imagine too much of an influx of people that don't understand mining economics that spend money on anything more than a jalepeno

+1

The big guys know what they are doing or are at least seeking the advisement of someone who does.

[chufchuf]

This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.

Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'

maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.

[ChartBuddy]

[bitcodo]

This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.

Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'

maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.

panic sell brain Ah, just Speculation

[ft73]

I've bought quite some coins from Bitstamp in the last few days, selling most of them in batches on Gox @100$ with 4-6% profit.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.

[zemario]

I've bought quite some coins from Bitstamp in the last few days, selling most of them in batches on Gox @100$ with 4-6% profit.
Now i decided to liquidate remaining coins @97$, i just don't like how charts look.

I did almost the same. Taking a small profit as things are starting to look like we're in for another long slide. I kept a few coins though, in case we unexpectedly go up.

Despite that, I would prefer if this bounce was the one. Don't care so much about bearish opportunities. Screw that.

[stereotype]

There was a discussion earlier about the ASIC race. This will set new levels, i think.....
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2744376#msg2744376

[ChartBuddy]

[Voodah]

There was a discussion earlier about the ASIC race. This will set new levels, i think.....
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=252531.msg2744376#msg2744376

Too many ASIC promises.

I  wanna see them working.

[Frozenlock]

This is your daily bear FUD.

The FIRST leg down in 2011:




Which wasn't the last. 

[vokain]

This is the problem. Where did the get the money for all this shit. Asicminer can't sell, as they would crash the price and nobody would buy asicminer...they must first sell their stuff and then they can sell bitcoins. The prices in bitcoins seem high, as they know they can't sell 100k bitcoins at market price.

Great! a conspiracy theory, even though they 'were acting like a business and had to sell at the time' they didn't but when the price drops a little they will panic and sell it 'because they're a business'

maybe just more investors keep investing because its finite and you can store in your brain, so everyone hoards and everyones in on the conspiracy.

hah if i were them i'd sell the shares for BTC