Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[xyzzy099]

I'm trying to understand this.  Off-putting, how?

Too much effort in convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, rather than to use it.

"Look at how many millions you could make by investing  bitcoins" instead of

"Look at how many cents you could save by buying a toaster with bitcoins instead of a credit card."

A sure sign that an investment is a scam is when its TV ad shows a smug man on a luxury boat with three girls on each side.  Renting a storefront next to NYSE is not as bad, but is going in that direction, IMHO.

If you read and understand this article, you will be enlightened:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/21/bitcoin-platform/

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[Miz4r]

That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Yeah how bad of us to want to stop the monopoly on money by banks and governments. Banks should have the sole right to make and control money right? And they should be highly rewarded for it ofcourse. Yeah it's not about the 'people', banks and governments should be in full control of every aspect of our lives, that's in our best interest... the few should control the many.

[oda.krell]

I'm trying to understand this.  Off-putting, how?

Too much effort in convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, rather than to use it.

"Look at how many millions you could make by investing  bitcoins" instead of

"Look at how many cents you could save by buying a toaster with bitcoins instead of a credit card."

A sure sign that an investment is a scam is when its TV ad shows a smug man on a luxury boat with three girls on each side.  Renting a storefront next to NYSE is not as bad, but is going in that direction, IMHO.

If you read and understand this article, you will be enlightened:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/21/bitcoin-platform/

His point is absolutely not countered by what that (by the way: pretty pedestrian -- "Napster"? Really?) article says. JorgeStolfi wants more emphasis on actual BTC usage, less on the "get rich quick" aspect of BTC. I partially agree.

[windjc]

In NYC bitcoin was on the front page of the Times last week

Speaking of which, I was touristing in NY over the year-end holidays (yes, it was cold). We went to see Wall Street one evening, and was surprised to see a "Bitcoin Information Center" right next door to NYSE.  Behind a small lounge one could see a room where someone was presenting a talk to a small audience.

My sons, who knew of my obsession strong scientific interest in the matter, urged me to go in and pretend I was some rich sucker would-be investor. While we were at it, a fellow came out and invited us inside, saying something about something being already up to some zillions of dollars.  But I was too tired and thinking only of getting back to my hotel.

The rent for that place must be a small fortune.  That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Your particular type of psychosis is an interesting case. I wish we could get some professional opinions on it. On one hand you are aware that you have this obsession with bitcoin, yet your obsession is purely negative. It is like you get some sort of pleasure in hating bitcoin. You have even admitted that part of you has sour grapes and are bitter that you missed out on such incredible growth. But the arguments you use against bitcoin are mostly rehashed fare that has been recycled through these forums a dozen times or more. Now you are starting to bring more and more absurd "insights" to the table, suggesting that bitcoin is full of subversive techie salespeople pitching bitcoin in back rooms like it was wolf of Wall Street meets Scientology meets Ron Paul meets Star Trek.

You seem to be getting more and more delusional in your assertions and in your obsession. Why don't you go spend your time doing something productive? Or at least find an obsession that you are positively wired towards. Right now you are starting to come across as soon creepy bitcoin stalker. I can tell your not the common troll, that's why I'm even responding to you. Go spend time with your kids. Have sex with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. For your own sake man, get out of this forum.

o_O

Projecting much?

Not at all. Did that hit a little too close to home Oda?

[oda.krell]

In NYC bitcoin was on the front page of the Times last week

Speaking of which, I was touristing in NY over the year-end holidays (yes, it was cold). We went to see Wall Street one evening, and was surprised to see a "Bitcoin Information Center" right next door to NYSE.  Behind a small lounge one could see a room where someone was presenting a talk to a small audience.

My sons, who knew of my obsession strong scientific interest in the matter, urged me to go in and pretend I was some rich sucker would-be investor. While we were at it, a fellow came out and invited us inside, saying something about something being already up to some zillions of dollars.  But I was too tired and thinking only of getting back to my hotel.

The rent for that place must be a small fortune.  That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Your particular type of psychosis is an interesting case. I wish we could get some professional opinions on it. On one hand you are aware that you have this obsession with bitcoin, yet your obsession is purely negative. It is like you get some sort of pleasure in hating bitcoin. You have even admitted that part of you has sour grapes and are bitter that you missed out on such incredible growth. But the arguments you use against bitcoin are mostly rehashed fare that has been recycled through these forums a dozen times or more. Now you are starting to bring more and more absurd "insights" to the table, suggesting that bitcoin is full of subversive techie salespeople pitching bitcoin in back rooms like it was wolf of Wall Street meets Scientology meets Ron Paul meets Star Trek.

You seem to be getting more and more delusional in your assertions and in your obsession. Why don't you go spend your time doing something productive? Or at least find an obsession that you are positively wired towards. Right now you are starting to come across as soon creepy bitcoin stalker. I can tell your not the common troll, that's why I'm even responding to you. Go spend time with your kids. Have sex with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. For your own sake man, get out of this forum.

o_O

Projecting much?

Not at all. Did that hit a little too close to home Oda?

You continue to make no sense whatsoever. Or I don't get the joke. Trying to find anything Jorge-etc posted that could be construed as "negative obsession" with Bitcoin... all I see is a moderately bearish poster. Guess what, he's not alone

[windjc]

In NYC bitcoin was on the front page of the Times last week

Speaking of which, I was touristing in NY over the year-end holidays (yes, it was cold). We went to see Wall Street one evening, and was surprised to see a "Bitcoin Information Center" right next door to NYSE.  Behind a small lounge one could see a room where someone was presenting a talk to a small audience.

My sons, who knew of my obsession strong scientific interest in the matter, urged me to go in and pretend I was some rich sucker would-be investor. While we were at it, a fellow came out and invited us inside, saying something about something being already up to some zillions of dollars.  But I was too tired and thinking only of getting back to my hotel.

The rent for that place must be a small fortune.  That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Your particular type of psychosis is an interesting case. I wish we could get some professional opinions on it. On one hand you are aware that you have this obsession with bitcoin, yet your obsession is purely negative. It is like you get some sort of pleasure in hating bitcoin. You have even admitted that part of you has sour grapes and are bitter that you missed out on such incredible growth. But the arguments you use against bitcoin are mostly rehashed fare that has been recycled through these forums a dozen times or more. Now you are starting to bring more and more absurd "insights" to the table, suggesting that bitcoin is full of subversive techie salespeople pitching bitcoin in back rooms like it was wolf of Wall Street meets Scientology meets Ron Paul meets Star Trek.

You seem to be getting more and more delusional in your assertions and in your obsession. Why don't you go spend your time doing something productive? Or at least find an obsession that you are positively wired towards. Right now you are starting to come across as soon creepy bitcoin stalker. I can tell your not the common troll, that's why I'm even responding to you. Go spend time with your kids. Have sex with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. For your own sake man, get out of this forum.

o_O

Projecting much?

Not at all. Did that hit a little too close to home Oda?

You continue to make no sense whatsoever. Or I don't get the joke. Trying to find anything Jorge-etc posted that could be construed as "negative obsession" with Bitcoin... all I see is a moderately bearish poster. Guess what, he's not alone

If it makes no sense to you it's because you haven't read his body of posts. Do some reading.  "Moderately bearish" is the under statement of the year.  He does not and has never had interest in owning bitcoin.

The fact that you relate to him means my comments did hit too close to home.

I'm actually generally worried about the guy. I don't think someone should spend time researching and writing about things they loath. What a waste.

Case I point. Last time I checked this was a trading forum. You and I trade. We discuss trades. Jorgi has never and will never buy the very asset that is being traded and discussed here. Again, what a fucking waste IMO.

[Ducky1]

I'm trying to understand this.  Off-putting, how?

Too much effort in convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, rather than to use it.

"Look at how many millions you could make by investing  bitcoins" instead of

"Look at how many cents you could save by buying a toaster with bitcoins instead of a credit card."

A sure sign that an investment is a scam is when its TV ad shows a smug man on a luxury boat with three girls on each side.  Renting a storefront next to NYSE is not as bad, but is going in that direction, IMHO.

If you read and understand this article, you will be enlightened:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/21/bitcoin-platform/

His point is absolutely not countered by what that (by the way: pretty pedestrian -- "Napster"? Really?) article says. JorgeStolfi wants more emphasis on actual BTC usage, less on the "get rich quick" aspect of BTC. I partially agree.

Napster is a good analogy. The first time i downloaded it and tried it (before many people knew about it) i had a 'whow this is genious' moment. I have the same, but even stronger feeling about bitcoin.

[notme]

In NYC bitcoin was on the front page of the Times last week

Speaking of which, I was touristing in NY over the year-end holidays (yes, it was cold). We went to see Wall Street one evening, and was surprised to see a "Bitcoin Information Center" right next door to NYSE.  Behind a small lounge one could see a room where someone was presenting a talk to a small audience.

My sons, who knew of my obsession strong scientific interest in the matter, urged me to go in and pretend I was some rich sucker would-be investor. While we were at it, a fellow came out and invited us inside, saying something about something being already up to some zillions of dollars.  But I was too tired and thinking only of getting back to my hotel.

The rent for that place must be a small fortune.  That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Your particular type of psychosis is an interesting case. I wish we could get some professional opinions on it. On one hand you are aware that you have this obsession with bitcoin, yet your obsession is purely negative. It is like you get some sort of pleasure in hating bitcoin. You have even admitted that part of you has sour grapes and are bitter that you missed out on such incredible growth. But the arguments you use against bitcoin are mostly rehashed fare that has been recycled through these forums a dozen times or more. Now you are starting to bring more and more absurd "insights" to the table, suggesting that bitcoin is full of subversive techie salespeople pitching bitcoin in back rooms like it was wolf of Wall Street meets Scientology meets Ron Paul meets Star Trek.

You seem to be getting more and more delusional in your assertions and in your obsession. Why don't you go spend your time doing something productive? Or at least find an obsession that you are positively wired towards. Right now you are starting to come across as soon creepy bitcoin stalker. I can tell your not the common troll, that's why I'm even responding to you. Go spend time with your kids. Have sex with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. For your own sake man, get out of this forum.

o_O

Projecting much?

Not at all. Did that hit a little too close to home Oda?

You continue to make no sense whatsoever. Or I don't get the joke. Trying to find anything Jorge-etc posted that could be construed as "negative obsession" with Bitcoin... all I see is a moderately bearish poster. Guess what, he's not alone

If it makes no sense to you it's because you haven't read his body of posts. Do some reading.  "Moderately bearish" is the under statement of the year.  He does not and has never had interest in owning bitcoin.

The fact that you relate to him means my comments did hit too close to home.

I'm actually generally worried about the guy. I don't think someone should spend time researching and writing about things they loath. What a waste.

Case I point. Last time I checked this was a trading forum. You and I trade. We discuss trades. Jorgi has never and will never buy the very asset that is being traded and discussed here. Again, what a fucking waste IMO.

Guess what?  People can change their opinions.  Just because he said something in the past doesn't mean you should judge every post after it by what he said before.  You seem to be very good are remembering and pointing out peoples past mistakes as they are trying to improve themselves.

[windjc]

In NYC bitcoin was on the front page of the Times last week

Speaking of which, I was touristing in NY over the year-end holidays (yes, it was cold). We went to see Wall Street one evening, and was surprised to see a "Bitcoin Information Center" right next door to NYSE.  Behind a small lounge one could see a room where someone was presenting a talk to a small audience.

My sons, who knew of my obsession strong scientific interest in the matter, urged me to go in and pretend I was some rich sucker would-be investor. While we were at it, a fellow came out and invited us inside, saying something about something being already up to some zillions of dollars.  But I was too tired and thinking only of getting back to my hotel.

The rent for that place must be a small fortune.  That's one thing that I find off-putting about Bitcoin: too much lavish marketing for a project by a bunch of young digital subversives whose goal is to steal a highly lucrative business from banks and undermine the governments' control of money flow, worldwide.

Your particular type of psychosis is an interesting case. I wish we could get some professional opinions on it. On one hand you are aware that you have this obsession with bitcoin, yet your obsession is purely negative. It is like you get some sort of pleasure in hating bitcoin. You have even admitted that part of you has sour grapes and are bitter that you missed out on such incredible growth. But the arguments you use against bitcoin are mostly rehashed fare that has been recycled through these forums a dozen times or more. Now you are starting to bring more and more absurd "insights" to the table, suggesting that bitcoin is full of subversive techie salespeople pitching bitcoin in back rooms like it was wolf of Wall Street meets Scientology meets Ron Paul meets Star Trek.

You seem to be getting more and more delusional in your assertions and in your obsession. Why don't you go spend your time doing something productive? Or at least find an obsession that you are positively wired towards. Right now you are starting to come across as soon creepy bitcoin stalker. I can tell your not the common troll, that's why I'm even responding to you. Go spend time with your kids. Have sex with your wife. Do something that makes you happy. For your own sake man, get out of this forum.

o_O

Projecting much?

Not at all. Did that hit a little too close to home Oda?

You continue to make no sense whatsoever. Or I don't get the joke. Trying to find anything Jorge-etc posted that could be construed as "negative obsession" with Bitcoin... all I see is a moderately bearish poster. Guess what, he's not alone

If it makes no sense to you it's because you haven't read his body of posts. Do some reading.  "Moderately bearish" is the under statement of the year.  He does not and has never had interest in owning bitcoin.

The fact that you relate to him means my comments did hit too close to home.

I'm actually generally worried about the guy. I don't think someone should spend time researching and writing about things they loath. What a waste.

Case I point. Last time I checked this was a trading forum. You and I trade. We discuss trades. Jorgi has never and will never buy the very asset that is being traded and discussed here. Again, what a fucking waste IMO.

Guess what?  People can change their opinions.  Just because he said something in the past doesn't mean you should judge every post after it by what he said before.  You seem to be very good are remembering and pointing out peoples past mistakes as they are trying to improve themselves.

Did I miss the part where he is trying to improve himself?

I know some of you have taken it upon yourself to try and bring him around. I think its wasted effort. Bitcoin will bring people like Jorgi around by itself eventually, unless a person just truly loves to hate it.

There is not much we need to do other than spread the word, use it, invest in it and/or its eco-system. Bitcoin will do the rest.

There are people that still hate Apple. Who knows, perhaps you are one. No matter how obvious a success something is some people are going to hate it.

One of my former careers was actually motivation and personal development training. I stood in front of 1000s of people at a time and spoke. I traveled all across the country. So, I have had a fair bit of personal experience dealing with people and their motivation for "improving" themselves. My conclusion: lead by example. Most people are not going to change unless they decide deep down its something they want to do.

[JorgeStolfi]

If you read and understand this article, you will be enlightened:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/21/bitcoin-platform/

Lots of nice predictions, we will see if they materialize.  (By the way, CNN blogs are not very selective on what theiy publish, it seems.  The author does not seem to be affiliated with CNN.  Is that a reader-contributed article?)

The title of that article is rather funny though.  Does the author realize that Napster was originally a pirate site that threatened to bypass the copyright industry's monopoly market, was crushed for that, then assimilated by that industry? 

If we take that title literally, Bitcoin will be appropriated by the banks, and turned into a fancy brand for something entirely different from the dream of its inventors.

Napster and other pirate music sites had perhaps the merit of forcing the music industry to accept the internet as a delivery channel (instead of physical records) and reduce their prices from absurd to merely exaggerated.  (But  the merit for that goes to Apple, whoc ould not simply be crushed like Napster was.)

I do hope that cryptocoins will at least have the same effect on the cost and delay of international money transfers.  Beyond that -- well, I am still not convinced.

[Chancellor]

Heh, due to some network glitch my bot got that bitcoin price felt down to 0 and did emergency sell off, fortunately at 819 ;-). Anyway now I'm sure that stop-loss works ;-). Added validation for prices received from the exchange...

[adamstgBit]

fire works set to blow in < 24hours.

[threecats]

If you read and understand this article, you will be enlightened:

http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2014/01/21/bitcoin-platform/

Lots of nice predictions, we will see if they materialize.  (By the way, CNN blogs are not very selective on what theiy publish, it seems.  The author does not seem to be affiliated with CNN.  Is that a reader-contributed article?)

The title of that article is rather funny though.  Does the author realize that Napster was originally a pirate site that threatened to bypass the copyright industry's monopoly market, was crushed for that, then assimilated by that industry? 

If we take that title literally, Bitcoin will be appropriated by the banks, and turned into a fancy brand for something entirely different from the dream of its inventors.

Napster and other pirate music sites had perhaps the merit of forcing the music industry to accept the internet as a delivery channel (instead of physical records) and reduce their prices from absurd to merely exaggerated.  (But  the merit for that goes to Apple, whoc ould not simply be crushed like Napster was.)

I do hope that cryptocoins will at least have the same effect on the cost and delay of international money transfers.  Beyond that -- well, I am still not convinced.

Actually, Napster shattered the music industry paradigm. What was eventually bought up was the insignificant remnant that remained long after the fatal blow was struck.

[molecular]

Napster is a good analogy.

Until it hopefully breaks down. Uh, well. Maybe it wont break and ethereum is gnutella somehow?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[DaRude]

Explanation

denied

[NewLiberty]

I'm trying to understand this.  Off-putting, how?

Too much effort in convincing people to invest in Bitcoin, rather than to use it.

"Look at how many millions you could make by investing  bitcoins" instead of

"Look at how many cents you could save by buying a toaster with bitcoins instead of a credit card."

A sure sign that an investment is a scam is when its TV ad shows a smug man on a luxury boat with three girls on each side.  Renting a storefront next to NYSE is not as bad, but is going in that direction, IMHO.

I haven't seen that advert, but it is likely not to far away.  Next bubble for sure.

As for the storefront next to NYSE?  Consider what a wise man once said:  “Those who are well have no need of a physician..."
I can think of few places with a higher concentration of "the sick" as regards bitcoin than next to the NYSE.  It is a great place for an education facility.

More often I find myself trying to convince people not to invest, but instead to accept.
Let the Winklevoss and Second Market folks suggest investing.  Most everyone I interact on the topic of Bitcoin is engaged in the same process, "accept not invest".  

The point where investment becomes a suggestion is when a newbie tells me that they want to start mining.  That has to be offset against the opportunity cost of buying the bitcoin from someone or else there is no place to start a discussion of ROI from their fiat vs crypto position.

I would be curious as to what you all think of as a good activity as regards the communication/education/marketing/advertising/propaganda spectrum.  I suspect there may be some who might consider any mention of it as a bad thing?

JorgeStolfi, what would you see as the right message to be giving in regards Bitcoin?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[nanobtc]

I consider Napster is a good partial comparison.

It's a disruptive technology, there's been a lot of them. How many thousands of years did man use horses/carts/whatever to move stuff? Cars and trains changed all of that, presumably for the better.

The internet? I've been online since 1981, but only since the turn of the millennium or so has it done these things (America-centric view):

Nearly killed the postal service via email. There's been a postal service in USA longer than there's been a USA.
Newspapers and magazines? Adapt or die.
Greedy record companies? Ten years ago they were screaming that 'digital downloads' will kill the record industry. Now Walmart and Amazon have 99 cent music downloads.
Greedy movie companies? They wailed about piracy, but years later Netflix and Hulu are doing very well.

Bitcoin may not make Money 1.0 obsolete, but could very well change many parts of it forever.

[NewLiberty]

I consider Napster is a good partial comparison.

It's a disruptive technology, there's been a lot of them. How many thousands of years did man use horses/carts/whatever to move stuff? Cars and trains changed all of that, presumably for the better.

The internet? I've been online since 1981, but only since the turn of the millennium or so has it done these things (America-centric view):

Nearly killed the postal service via email. There's been a postal service in USA longer than there's been a USA.
Newspapers and magazines? Adapt or die.
Greedy record companies? Ten years ago they were screaming that 'digital downloads' will kill the record industry. Now Walmart and Amazon have 99 cent music downloads.
Greedy movie companies? They wailed about piracy, but years later Netflix and Hulu are doing very well.

Bitcoin may not make Money 1.0 obsolete, but could very well change many parts of it forever.

Napster is one of the inspirations Satoshi Nakamoto drew upon in the formulation of the Bitcoin solution to the Byzantine General's problem.