Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[alevlaslo]

rudeness is a sign of the opponent's rightness. Answer the question: how will you solve the problem of expensive commissions when the price of bitcoin rises?
will you pay $ 1000 for the transfer or mounth stand in line for $ 100?

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

How did bcash plan to solve the problem? With a larger highway? It's a non solution, bloating the blockchain linearly with the number*size (not the monetary amount) of transactions. This would have made it impossible to keep bitcoin alive on user-maintained full nodes.

And what about eth? It's never been a solution to that problem. It's a proprietary token, with the master doing as he pleases and considering switching to PoS just to be sure. Sod immutability and distributed ledgers.

But I guess many WO'ers have told you these things already. You're just being blind, or deaf, or both.

(Rudeness might also be a sign of weariness after reading so many mindless repetitions.)

users do not need to maintain the blockchain and it is dangerous, cold storage is recommended

decentralization does not exist nowhere, the only valuable thing is the proof of work

[Biodom]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

I know that i am not going to change your mind about this, but, still...sometimes 'whizbangery' is needed.

[Toxic2040]

Global Warming Observer
A free service brought to you by the bitcoin community

After stepping back and contemplating the inputs and outputs going on in this thread, it dawned upon me once again just how diverse the constituents of the bitcoin ecosystem are. There is no "center" or ideology that has majority over another. It seems to draw from all walks of life, political and economic variance is the norm not the exception. I think it might be bitcoins greatest strength. That we can all have such divergent philosophies and still reach consensus in a mathematically proven way is truly a gift beyond compare.


I do find it strange that this threads participation and viewership rises considerably when such off topic posts are made however...  I am sure it is just a coincidence.

[d_eddie]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

... unless you batch the operations. Which is already possible, although not yet deployed.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple fiat money suffices.

[alevlaslo]

the engine on water invented long ago, but the fuel companys always destroy such inventions, so as not to lose power https://youtu.be/Jivb7lupDNU

therefore, a million old modems 56 for them is better than one novelty, the future for a gross increase of block size

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

The problem I see is that scientists who disagree are being pushed out of the debate. Which leads to dogma and very little science.

We had that issue in my country.  Some background checks were done on the scientists that disagreed with the 97%.  It turns out they were funded by an independent policy think tank. Whose largest donor was a large coal company.

Sometimes even scientists are corrupt.  

Show me any significant number of the 97% scientists conducting research into the counter to their own arguments and you'll have true science. If you look for ways to confirm what you believe or suspect you will always find something given enough time. Unless they are actively trying to shit on their own arguments there's no science being conducted. And what I've seen was always the same old same old, namely regurgitating the common consensus. Which is understandable as well, as anything else won't get funded and academia is way more competitive than it should be already.

Do I think that going solar and shit like that is good? Sure, but mostly for the decentralization aspect and the thus introduced autonomy of the individual, as well as the fact that oil etc is finite and too expensive. We've had climate changing for longer than we've existed and anyone who thinks that scientists have figured out even a fraction of climate, despite the fact that they can not even accurately predict the weather, is believing in voodoo and fairies. Climate is far too complex for our laughable tools to grasp right now. Maybe in a few decades or centuries we'll have a chance, but as is I see attempts and a bunch of people profiteering off of them.

I thought that oil, tobacco, drugs and co would be enough to not actually believe anything anyone says these days. You might be inclined in a certain way, but having firm beliefs and fighting over them seems retarded to me. Especially when the most brilliant scientists were literally driven insane (e.g. Cantor who was put into an insane asylum for his discoveries regarding different types of infinity among many others).



Edit: Marked part of your post in bold, as it's precisely the point that I've tried to make here. Small addition, sometimes the majority doesn't even realize that they've become corrupted.

[jbreher]

We've had this discussion already, haven't we.

::sigh:: Indeed, we have. Yet you continue to re-engage.

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

Several solutions are being developed to batch the opening of multiple channels in one transaction.

Tell me - how do many individuals make their channel openings part of the same tx?

How did bcash plan to solve the problem? With a larger highway? It's a non solution, bloating the blockchain linearly with the number*size (not the monetary amount) of transactions. This would have made it impossible to keep bitcoin alive on user-maintained full nodes.

Bald assertion devoid of supporting evidence.

As to blockchain bloat, not much evidence's needed at all. It's simple arithmetic.

Yet you show none?

As to the impossiblity (or extreme unease) of keeping a full node*, it's just a tad less simple to work out the mass storage and bandwidth required.

Neither Moore's nor Nielsen's so-called 'laws' have yet run their course. Back when the founder acquiesced to a block size cap of 1MB, computing power, storage capacity, and network bandwidth were drastically smaller than today.

[jbreher]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

I know that i am not going to change your mind about this, but, still...sometimes 'whizbangery' is needed.

We had an explosion of whizbangery a decade ago. We had not come close to riding that to its natural conclusion before wizards that thought they knew better perverted the system.

Oh well, devs gotta dev.

[Biodom]

2) species loss ... ok maybe this is an issue, it's subjective and depends on your feelings though. Massive extinction events have happened regularly in the Earth's past from various means. How much species diversity is exactly the right amount? do you feel like playing god to determine that? humans have cultivated huge quantities of biomass in the form of crops, cows, sheep, pigs, chickens, there are probably more animals alive on the planet today than at any time in the past, let's celebrate mammalian abundance husbanded by humans! ... are they just not the "right" animals for your liking? my liking? his liking? should we all be living in teepees and hunting the roaming meager herds of buffalo in competition with wolves and large cats? Who really knows what is the right balance for number of species and quantities of each species that should be alive on earth at any particular time? It's just an excessively complicated question to believe anyone who claims to know the answer, they are just bullshitting you to gain an advantage over you somehow.

Very much the crux of the matter as I see it.  Yes, as I have consistently maintained, my preference for the complex and diverse arrangement of forms out of which human intelligence arose is largely aesthetic.

You have demonstrated yourself not to be willfully ignorant.  You must understand that your preference for a subdued planet brought wholly under the reign of humanity is also aesthetic, a selfish and misguided aesthetic in my view but there it is.

I do not demand that you share my aesthetic values, though I will resist the conversion of wildness to commodity to the end.

We need natural habitats because it is where we, humans, will at some time spend all of our time in the absence of meaningful high intelligence requiring jobs.
With machines already on the verge of doing very complicated tasks much better than us and getting true insight into the nature of things (that they would be probably incapable of conveying back to us-see my other post), we would need nature more than ever.
Just one example: a machine is capable of reading X-rays 150 times faster than radiologist (making 250-300K/year) and giving a better diagnosis.
How you are going to compete with it? You can't, basically, unless you implement some luddite laws, but then you lose productivity.

[Agapios]

the engine on water invented long ago, but the fuel companys always destroy such inventions, so as not to lose power https://youtu.be/Jivb7lupDNU

therefore, a million old modems 56 for them is better than one novelty, the future for a gross increase of block size

BULLSHUT

[bitserve]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

I know that i am not going to change your mind about this, but, still...sometimes 'whizbangery' is needed.

We had an explosion of whizbangery a decade ago. We had not come close to riding that to its natural conclusion before wizards that thought they knew better perverted the system.

Oh well, devs gotta dev.

I thought you were a dev.

[lightfoot]

I do find it strange that this threads participation and viewership rises considerably when such off topic posts are made however...  I am sure it is just a coincidence.

Screw global warming, let's talk more about the chick with the shovel.

[alevlaslo]

the engine on water invented long ago, but the fuel companys always destroy such inventions, so as not to lose power https://youtu.be/Jivb7lupDNU

therefore, a million old modems 56 for them is better than one novelty, the future for a gross increase of block size

BULLSHUT

what purpose  you have? if the money - it is contributing to a Bitmain clan, and if happiness - it is inaction to auto recount difficulty in the smaller side

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

3) collapsing fisheries stock ... yep totally agree with you here, it sucks, people are stupid and greedy and the tragedy of the commons will prevail any time you get a shared resource situation like this. I think inevitably aquaculture will alleviate this in the near to not-too-distant future. Fish-farming has come a long way fast since price of wild fish started spiking after stocks collapse, locally I've seen some great ventures in exotic fish species, delicacies that were always thought too hard to be farmed, lobster, abalone, white-bait, scallops, etc. In fact, I suggest invest, aquaculture is going to have a great profitable future and its good for our local habitat (I mean who doesn't love to go fishing for realz?)

I've actually been thinking about how viable a salmon or whatever pond/lake/farm on private property could be. I looked into it but found hardly anything useful beyond a basic confirmation that it's possible. Do you happen to have any idea as to how small scaled fish-farming could be made and how economical/costly it would be or have any reading pointers otherwise? Basically trying to figure out if it's mostly initial fixed costs or if it'll cost a fortune in sustaining. Would love a fucking salmon farm on my property.

[bitserve]

^ If you get a proper answer (maybe including a detailed how-to and some additional tips and tricks as a bonus) for THAT question it will be clearly demonstrated that this thread actually delivers.

[BTCMILLIONAIRE]

^ If you get a proper answer (maybe including a detailed how-to and some additional tips and tricks as a bonus) for THAT question it will be clearly demonstrated that this thread actually delivers.

Legendary 110% thread.

[Toxic2040]

^ If you get a proper answer (maybe including a detailed how-to and some additional tips and tricks as a bonus) for THAT question it will be clearly demonstrated that this thread actually delivers.

https://pubs.ext.vt.edu/420/420-897/420-897.html

[jbreher]

L2 solutions are meant to take care of transaction costs, if/when they become unbearable. Which, in a world devoid of mempool spam by Bitmain and their minions, won't happen before massive adoption.

Massive adoption cannot happen -- LN cannot onboard more than the population of one small city per day, due to the anemic BTC block weight. How many millions will it take to reach 'massive adoption'? Multiple thousands.

First of all, ~200K/day is still more than ALL current btc users in just 6mo.

I was responding directly to the 'massive adoption' challenge. Demonstrably, LN is incapable of onboarding 'massive adoption' due to the fact that the hard cap on blocksize is a hard cap on the number of people that can open a channel per unit time.

Second, there are/will be technical solutions as we progress.

We really don't need technical whizbangery when simple block size increase suffices.

I know that i am not going to change your mind about this, but, still...sometimes 'whizbangery' is needed.

We had an explosion of whizbangery a decade ago. We had not come close to riding that to its natural conclusion before wizards that thought they knew better perverted the system.

Oh well, devs gotta dev.

I thought you were a dev.

You're right. I were a dev. Another field, however.

I hope I have the wisdom for not poking things that are already perfect for their intended task. If not, then certainly the wisdom to not make gratuitous changes that result in loss of positive attributes.

[jojo69]

I've actually been thinking about how viable a salmon or whatever pond/lake/farm on private property could be. I looked into it but found hardly anything useful beyond a basic confirmation that it's possible. Do you happen to have any idea as to how small scaled fish-farming could be made and how economical/costly it would be or have any reading pointers otherwise? Basically trying to figure out if it's mostly initial fixed costs or if it'll cost a fortune in sustaining. Would love a fucking salmon farm on my property.

I'm not sure salmon, being anadromous, can be reared in ponds, perhaps.

The salmon farms around here occupy valuable estuary areas and are severely infested with some sort of aquatic lice which then attack the young wild salmon as they come down to the salt water.

Same as it ever was.

[Biodom]

Bitcoin babushkas...supplementing pensions with btc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=14&v=vBKwMQ1lkUk