Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Rampion]

Forking Bitcoin to make Gox users whole would destroy trust in Bitcoin itself.

I hope you all realize that a chain fork "to make Gox users whole" will never happen.

[MAbtc]

Because the sheer quantity of it. Nothing more. Doesnt matter who, why, or where. If 500k coins were lost for some other reason, I dont see why people wouldnt support getting people their funds back. All this "trust loss' stuff isnt making even the slightest bit of sense to me. Sounds like people are getting boners on the thought of 6% less coins, for a whopping... 6% increase in value each?

You don't see the future implications? I don't support any fork that is not of vital necessity to the protocol. Altering the money supply to bail out people who should have better gauged their counter party risk? No fucking way. If the majority supports this, bitcoin is dead in the water. And I'm out -- in a flash.

[fotosonics]

http://mashable.com/2014/02/27/new-fed-chair-we-dont-have-authority-on-bitcoin/

"If Bitcoin does not flourish in the United States, it will flourish elsewhere, and the United States will cede leadership to the countries with the more foresighted approach to innovation and economic progress."

[KeyserSoze]

You don't see the future implications? I don't support any fork that is not of vital necessity to the protocol. Altering the money supply to bail out people who should have better gauged their counter party risk? No fucking way. If the majority supports this, bitcoin is dead in the water. And I'm out -- in a flash.

+1

[JayJuanGee]

No one can force you to join a fork. No one. Sure you may end up as the only user on your side of the fork, in which case, what is the point?

Ultimately, the economic majority has the power to decide. If all the devs and all the miners decide to fork for whatever reason, and the economic majority decides they don't agree, the economic majority sells it's coins and the devs and miners are playing with worthless tokens.

In the case of a fork, it's highly likely that only one chain will survive. There are far, far more coins that weren't lost in the Gox implosion than there are coins that were lost. If the devs and miners decide to fraudulently manipulate the code to "save" those coins, I'm sure we will see massive dumping of coins on this fork and only Bitcoin will remain in the end. I know I will be selling my forked coins and if anyone is stupid enough to give me something of value for them, I will immediately purchase more actual Bitcoins with the money.

So, I'd like to see it because I hope that I would end up with more actual Bitcoins once everything is said and done. Those who choose the wrong fork will most likely end up with nothing but a harsh lesson about why Bitcoin exists in the first place. I don't think anyone is stupid enough to try and bail out Gox with a protocol change though.

Why would anyone want both chains to survive? It seems to me, miners would want no Gox fork and just about every investor in bitcoin, ever, (assuming the 500k+ sum) would want the fork. I dont doubt a lot of the coins would be dumped causing a temporary decrease in price, but the trust something like this would generate for me..

I never said anyone would want both chains to survive.

As I said, there are far, far more non-Gox-lost coins than Gox-lost coins. Why would the majority of holders (non-Gox coins) want to bail out Gox users for failing to understand the implications of letting a third party hold your "bitcoins".

Because the sheer quantity of it. Nothing more. Doesnt matter who, why, or where. If 500k coins were lost for some other reason, I dont see why people wouldnt support getting people their funds back. All this "trust loss' stuff isnt making even the slightest bit of sense to me. Sounds like people are getting boners on the thought of 6% less coins, for a whopping... 6% increase in value each?

Forking Bitcoin to make Gox users whole would destroy trust in Bitcoin itself.

Talk about cutting off the nose to spite the face.

Yes... forking in such circumstances would cause a major problem to incentivize sloppy behavior... it would be like the 2007/8 bank bail out... and should NOT take place in the bitcoin world.

[dreamspark]

Lol fork bitcoin to bail out gox users. I have some btc tied up in the gox debacle but I would NEVER support this.

[raid_n]

I'm enjoying this hypothetical forking question  

This is certainly not the point in time where a fork were to be actually considered but there might come a day where this becomes the case.
In a sense this is the ultimate strength of the system and the reason why cryptocurrencies are here to stay.
No regulation or external influence can stop a new spawn from emerging

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

Please let's focus on important subject
Fork is and will not at the agenda.
Pirate40 is on the run with 500K.
FBI with 150K.
Why not for those one ?
Why not every 6 month to remove all "bad" bitcoins ?
With a pool, on this thread maybe ?

[aminorex]

Please let's focus on important subject
Fork is and will not at the agenda.
Pirate40 is on the run with 500K.
FBI with 150K.
Way not for that one ?
Why not for every 6 month to remove all bad bitcoins ?
With a pool, on this thread.

Because it hasn't been ordered by a court with access to men with guns and unpleasant prisons...yet.

[dreamspark]

I'm enjoying this hypothetical forking question  

This is certainly not the point in time where a fork were to be actually considered but there might come a day where this becomes the case.
In a sense this is the ultimate strength of the system and the reason why cryptocurrencies are here to stay.
No regulation or external influence can stop a new spawn from emerging

I agree to a point but a fork like this would split the community to the point the miners decided and they would do it for money, therefore in that sense its just as bad as the old system to even consider this. A fork would only ever be considered for a change in the protocol not to restore lost coins.

[empowering]

Do you guys think twobitidiot is holding something back? Or he might be in on it somehow..

I am not sure... but it seems to me he has little regard for the Bitcoin community and was behaving in his own self interest...

Did he lie about something?

Not that I can say.

Cannot know that because we do not know the facts yet....  all we have is rumor upon rumor.

Just seemed a little quick to the mark, and a tad zealous.

Plus the supposed take over documents, and some of the other things seemed bordering on trollish

The tone and the style did not seem to me to be one of being helpful... maybe that is just me.

Also he states that his leak did not have any bearing on any "possible buy out or take over"  well he must have very high info indeed
maybe he was in the room? or is it possible that his leak did cause damage? who knows...  but I am sure it would not have stopped him...

Also he claims to have all of the pieces to the story... well what is he waiting for? quit with keeping us in suspense already... go see that lawyer what 9.00 this morning... and .... ... .. . nothing

and if he does have "it"... then spill it and quit with the suspense already... Hitchcock he ain't  

[magicmexican]

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

Because it hasn't been ordered by a court with access to men with guns and unpleasant prisons...yet.

So you need a warrant to fork that FBI/MK/pirate40 coins ?
Tell me more about that

[Spaceman_Spiff]

You don't see the future implications? I don't support any fork that is not of vital necessity to the protocol. Altering the money supply to bail out people who should have better gauged their counter party risk? No fucking way. If the majority supports this, bitcoin is dead in the water. And I'm out -- in a flash.

+1

+2

Because it hasn't been ordered by a court with access to men with guns and unpleasant prisons...yet.

So you need a warrant to fork that FBI/MK/pirate40 coins ?
Tell me more about that

FTW: who gets to decide which are "bad" coins?  Can't you see that the more you turn bitcoin into a political game with rules that are changed every month, the less it becomes something you will always be able to rely on as money?

[JorgeStolfi]

*Please don't counter with "but China." Almost all activities on their exchanges are by american operated bots.

Is that so? 

Surely there is efficient arbitrage between the Chinese and the Western exchanges.  And surely most of the trade there is robots.

However, trade at Huobi is falls gradually to zero by 3:00 am and slowly rises again after 5:00 am local time.  It also changes as expected during local holidays.  That would argue against robots being remotely controlled from the US, wouldn't it?  It seems more consistent with Chinese humans and human-driven robots/scripts...

I haven't been paying much attention to OKCoin, but I believe that their traffic follows the same patterns, except that there is a part of the traffic that continues nonstop through the night.   Are you referring to OKCoin specifically?

Traffic at BTC-China is weird, I do not know what is going on there.  Perhaps ONLY arbitrage against a single market-maker?

[magicmexican]

Goxcoin 0.092!

[explorer]

Are we done bashing academia yet? 
[/quote]

No we're not  

Because like politicians and central banks it still gets way too much unquestioning respect and credit. It needs some more bashing.

Our whole school system is designed to turn people from random individuals into mutually interchangeable parts of a big machine. What is the first thing you learn in school? It's not reading, or writing or any of that stuff which your parents or their friends could have taught you by themselves if they weren't too busy being parts of the machine. It's that your time is not your own. It doesn't belong to you. It belongs to the authorities who will tell you when to be at a certain place, doing certain things. Better get used to it kiddo, because it's going to be like that for the rest of your life!

Next thing you learn is that mistakes are bad. So bad in fact that it is preferable to do nothing than to make mistakes. Oh and don't bother thinking for yourself. There is exactly ONE correct answer to everything and we already have it so don't bother with that, just memorize these text books.

Btw I went to university. I was interested in the subject they were "teaching". What a huge pile of horse crap that was. I quit. Everyone told me I am crazy, without education I won't get a good job! Right. As if having a Job (acronym for "Just over broke") is the only way to get by in life. Anyway I told them they are crazy for wasting their best years in such a rotten institution. And they knew it was shit. But the momentum of the whole system just carried them further and they stayed, finished their schools, got into jobs and started turning into miserable zombies just as predicted. And the ones who actually stayed in school even further, turning themselves into academics? They were the worst of the bunch. Lifeless, bland individuals, without any original thought in their heads. Conforming to the standards of authority has become the alpha and omega and everything else takes the back seat. Except their bitter conviction that somehow they are relevant. That somehow the guy who spent his whole life in academia can teach businessmen about management.


[/quote]

I try not to make useless +1 posts, but... nicely said  

[FTWbitcoinFTW]

ahhh, the Karpeles fork
I was wondering how long it would take for this to come up

Normaly never but if morrons guys like you continue to talk about it a journalist-like in the need for click should be happy to make 1000 words with this BS

Was 2h ago.
Since this stupid idea take 3 pages...
It's a smoke screen

For now the only document with 750K is a "leaked" document from a "trusted source"  
The only confirmation or statement are from 5 direct Mtgox competitor...

So why speculating about a hypothetical fork for some hypotheticals lost coins.
Com on...

In the same time, watch the trust in the GOXCOIN raising, almost 100% since this morning.

[dreamspark]

gmaxwell talking some sense about the speculation that gox still has a lot of coins that are going around Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z3v4k/claims_that_mtgox_has_a_lot_of_coin_so_far_look/

[magicmexican]

gmaxwell talking some sense about the speculation that gox still has a lot of coins that are going around Reddit.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1z3v4k/claims_that_mtgox_has_a_lot_of_coin_so_far_look/

he just wants to get your goxcoins cheap.