Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ag@th0s]

So it appears Peter Schiff has finally wrapped his mind around Bitcoin:

http://blog.europacmetals.com/2014/05/euro-pacific-precious-metals-now-accepts-bitcoin/

wow. Didn't expect.

Looks like it might be two-way - just had this web-chat with an assistant on the site



Not that I want to sell gold for btc right now, but I can imagine a time when I might want to.

[greenlion]

So it appears Peter Schiff has finally wrapped his mind around Bitcoin:

http://blog.europacmetals.com/2014/05/euro-pacific-precious-metals-now-accepts-bitcoin/

wow. Didn't expect.

Schiff flip-flops all the time... he just goes with what's popular...

He's obviously going through like a Bitpay or some such company, so I bet you thinks of it as just another way to take dollars.

[JorgeStolfi]

Just think how many children went hungry because Jorge's government stole the money from the public that was used to purchase the CD's and the camera and pay Jorge's salary, in the first place.

How many will go hungry if bitcoin becomes worth a million dollars and you buy a gold-roofed castle in Malibu with your stash?

[JorgeStolfi]

http://advivo.com.br/blog/jorge-stolfi/cuidado-com-bitcoin

Meh. Not impressed.

I agree, it is quite timid.  That was written months ago when I had just learned about bitcoin -- before MtGOX, Neo & Bee, the Chinese market, etc..

[JorgeStolfi]

So don't underestimate the fear people have of the tax authorities?

No, don't underestimate the ability of people to completely misunderstand the point of a post.  

(Hint1: it was about how much panic a "totally retarded" post here could cause.)

(Hint2: Consider what happened to the price when Marc claimed that there was a bug in bitcoin.)

If half of *all the traders there* didn't want your dirty fiat because they were operating in the grey economy

Actually they LOVE dirty non-crypto paper fiat money.  They just don't like fiscal notes, and are wary of traceable payment methods like checks or crypto fiat money.  

[hmmmstrange]

Just think how many children went hungry because Jorge's government stole the money from the public that was used to purchase the CD's and the camera and pay Jorge's salary, in the first place.

How many will go hungry if bitcoin becomes worth a million dollars and you buy a gold-roofed castle in Malibu with your stash?

How many years of salary have you taken by force from the public? How many people could have been fed from that money?

You are a smart guy, maybe it's time you either do something productive in the private sector or at the very least find someone in the private sector that values your work and get them to fund your "scholar" ventures.

If your work is so important, surely you can find some private funding.

[cAPSLOCK]

http://advivo.com.br/blog/jorge-stolfi/cuidado-com-bitcoin

Yes.  Jorge thinks bitcoin is a dangerous ponzi and makes an argument there by first presenting a stawman argument in the form of an extreme false dichotomy.

Is this news?  He has seemed fairly transparent in his views of bitcoin.

I personally think he is wrong.

But who knows?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[KFR]

Just think how many children went hungry after your shopping spree

Whenever I wake up in the middle of the night for having had a bad dream with those hungry kids, I tell myself that perhaps the tax inspectors and the police actually were on their way at that time, in which case the children got to keep their daddy thanks to us, and I go back to sleep.  

No surprise there - after all we've already witnessed your remarkable ability to twist, bend and distort the facts in order to reinforce rather than challenge your own world view.  It seems quite a common trait amongst entrenched dogmatic academics.

[lyth0s]

http://advivo.com.br/blog/jorge-stolfi/cuidado-com-bitcoin

Yes.  Jorge thinks bitcoin is a dangerous ponzi and makes an argument there by first presenting a stawman argument in the form of an extreme false dichotomy.

Is this news?  He has seemed fairly transparent in his views of bitcoin.

I personally think he is wrong.

But who knows?

Statements like the one quoted below get me everytime. Isn't this statement also true for every central bank fiat currency, IE the USD? The USD is only worth what we believe its worth, in that what we are willing to trade for the $1.

The fact is that bitcoins have no value in themselves : they are only worth what people believe they are worth .

If anyone has better insight as to why or how this statement is true for bitcoin, but not for fiat. Please, please let me know. I'm awaiting enlightenment

[Globb0]

the bank note is a promise

[Unacceptable]

the bank note is a promise

An empty promise!!    No gold or precious metals backing it,no material assets backing it.............nothing 

[rpietila]

Any bets on the bottom for the weekend? I am hoping for 400 at least.

The dearth of sellers is palpable.

Same goes for volume. Does not mean much.

The downtrend has been in force due to sellers overriding buyers. If the volume dries up, it is because the sellers are exhausted. The price is nascent despite the low volume. I would abstain from shorting here.

The trailing 4-week change is positive first time since February. My last call of 435 bottom was off by $14.87 so let's try to call another one here.

So far, so good.

[Globb0]

just numbers on a computer right? wait a minute......


heh

[JorgeStolfi]

How many years of salary have you taken by force from the public?  [ ... ] If your work is so important, surely you can find some private funding.

There are some professors in our public universities who think that they should be privatized, and then charge fees that only the rich could pay.  But they stand no chance of prevailing, because that would require a change in the Constitution which was written by a popular Assembly, and would have to go through Congress whose members elected by the people would not risk their voters' wrath by doing that.  On the contrary, politicians who improve and expand public education have had a big advantage in elections.

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them.  Even if each man would rather pay no taxes himslelf, usually he wants other people to pay taxes, votes for candidates who are in favor of taxes in general, and has no sympathy at all for those who try to evade taxes, no matter how technolgically clever are their tricks.  It is the tax evaders, not the government, who are stealing from the (tax-paying) people.

You are a smart guy, maybe it's time you either do something productive in the private sector or at the very least find someone in the private sector that values your work and get them to fund your "scholar" ventures.

Well, I believe that my work as teacher, as bad as it is, is infinitely more productive than running internet gambling sites, writing computer games, and many other "private industry" things. 

And, by the way, I did work in industry too (during my undergrad years, and after my Ph.D.) And industry did fund some of my research.

[wachtwoord]

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them. 

That's condescending as fuck. You're trying to imply that, agreeing with public services and charging taxes to fund them, is a prerequisite for being intelligent. That's absolute and utter bullshit.

BTW people please don't think he represents academics in general. I'm one and I take great offense.

[hmmmstrange]

How many years of salary have you taken by force from the public?  [ ... ] If your work is so important, surely you can find some private funding.

There are some professors in our public universities who think that they should be privatized, and then charge fees that only the rich could pay.  But they stand no chance of prevailing, because that would require a change in the Constitution which was written by a popular Assembly, and would have to go through Congress whose members elected by the people would not risk their voters' wrath by doing that.  On the contrary, politicians who improve and expand public education have had a big advantage in elections.

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them.  Even if each man would rather pay no taxes himslelf, usually he wants other people to pay taxes, votes for candidates who are in favor of taxes in general, and has no sympathy at all for those who try to evade taxes, no matter how technolgically clever are their tricks.  It is the tax evaders, not the government, who are stealing from the (tax-paying) people.

You are a smart guy, maybe it's time you either do something productive in the private sector or at the very least find someone in the private sector that values your work and get them to fund your "scholar" ventures.

Well, I believe that my work as teacher, as bad as it is, is infinitely more productive than running internet gambling sites, writing computer games, and many other "private industry" things. 

And, by the way, I did work in industry too (during my undergrad years, and after my Ph.D.) And industry did fund some of my research.

You stole someone's lunch in order to respond to my stupid post.

[billyjoeallen]

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them.

Most intelligent people 300 years ago thought people could be owned, leeches were medicine, and that outer space was filled with ether. The logical fallacy you are making is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum. 

[ag@th0s]

So don't underestimate the fear people have of the tax authorities?

No, don't underestimate the ability of people to completely misunderstand the point of a post.  

(Hint1: it was about how much panic a "totally retarded" post here could cause.)

(Hint2: Consider what happened to the price when Marc claimed that there was a bug in bitcoin.)

If half of *all the traders there* didn't want your dirty fiat because they were operating in the grey economy

Actually they LOVE dirty non-crypto paper fiat money.  They just don't like fiscal notes, and are wary of traceable payment methods like checks or crypto fiat money.  

LOL. Fair point - I didn't understand what you were talking about.  I don't think the fact that I didn't know what a nota fiscal is, and that you seem somehow proud that you could scare a half street full of vendors into shutting up shop because you were waving them, really undermines my point.

So you don't like crypto and you don't use fiat - you're a nota fiscal fan?

Tax Inspector! Tax Inspector!

[nioc]

Just think how many children went hungry after your shopping spree

Whenever I wake up in the middle of the night for having had a bad dream with those hungry kids, I tell myself that perhaps the tax inspectors and the police actually were on their way at that time, in which case the children got to keep their daddy thanks to us, and I go back to sleep.  

No surprise there - after all we've already witnessed your remarkable ability to twist, bend and distort the facts in order to reinforce rather than challenge your own world view.  It seems quite a common trait amongst entrenched dogmatic academics.

People twist, bend and distort the facts in order to reinforce rather than challenge their own world view and entrenched dogmatic academics are people.