Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Searing]

So I am puzzled by this calm, I can't understand what those Chinese sellers are waiting for.  

The nature of Bitcoin - once you sell it, you can't sell it again.

After 6 months of selling, no more coins in the sellers' hands.

Volume down.

Next: UP. No other way is even possible.

When: Don't know exactly, but 650 by the end of June is a possibility. Top could be in August-September.

like the way you think .....I mine in the USA I hope the only problems I have is how to pay IRS their 25% share of 'gross mining profits"

did not have to pay any taxes last year cause they had 50% off equip depreciation in 2013 (likely will be same in 2014) then standard depreciation according to my CPA

the IRS Guidelines 2013 of bitcoin as property ie/land (crap i'm a farmer)  thus the equipment option..

and before people jump on me why I'm reporting ..did as a newbie KNC wire xfers (no btc)

bank screwed up 6x and did a total of 4 to knc refunded 3...and kept 1 (titan) ...so each time in USA you sign a paper over 10k wire xfer you are not xfering money

for criminal activities..with that much paper floating about decided to fess up after the guidelines came up (had like 20 days gee thanks) do my btc taxes legit

via amending my taxes for 2013...so you guessed it

anwyay bank did come after me threatened to tell feds...went down with 'legit' taxe forms done on bitcon 2013...showed it was their 6 missfires on getting the wire

xfers out ...and avoided a LOT of pain with the IRS ..(sometimes it is good to be paranoid!!!)

so anyway if what you say is correct I likely need to buy MORE  equipment.....sigh...hopefully the rules will change back next year

anyway..if BTC even stays at 500 bucks should work out for me...if it hits 1000 bucks btc....equip buying again here I come....

FML

Searing

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[1714242576]

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[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[bclcjunkie]

well said Risto... however i doubt the professor will understand that simple and clear explanation he's probably lost in his own analysis as Phd holders usually like to complicate their research...

So I am puzzled by this calm, I can't understand what those Chinese sellers are waiting for.  

The nature of Bitcoin - once you sell it, you can't sell it again.

After 6 months of selling, no more coins in the sellers' hands.

Volume down.

Next: UP. No other way is even possible.

When: Don't know exactly, but 650 by the end of June is a possibility. Top could be in August-September.

[macsga]

I think Bitcoin might ultimately fail, but is much more likely to succeed - as a result the value of a Bitcoin would almost certainly increase significantly due to the way the protocol has been designed e.g. finite supply etc.  

Some people think Bitcoin might ultimately succeed, but is much more likely to fail - at some point.  In the meantime its value will fluctuate wildly.  

My problem is with people that are absolutely determined to convince everyone - particularly themselves - that the ultimate failure of Bitcoin is a pre-determined absolute and, at no point on its trajectory, should anyone ever risk any money on it as a result.

I often think of all the people who regularly, and in my opinion quite foolishly, spend a significant amount of their very meagre income on lottery tickets - not to mention more direct gambling like online poker, sports bets etc.

By "protecting them" from investing in Bitcoin and ignoring where these people are likely to otherwise spend that money Jorge's really missing a trick.

People can't sell losing lottery tickets for any value at all.  If you keep one eye on a ticker then you can sell your bitcoin if and when you think it has become a losing bet.  One's a pure gamble and one's a (debatably) relatively high risk and potentially very high reward investment.

+1

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[EuroTrash]

So I am puzzled by this calm, I can't understand what those Chinese sellers are waiting for.  

The nature of Bitcoin - once you sell it, you can't sell it again.

After 6 months of selling, no more coins in the sellers' hands.

Volume down.

Next: UP. No other way is even possible.

When: Don't know exactly, but 650 by the end of June is a possibility. Top could be in August-September.

The opposite logic also applies. Here "you" = average trader.
Once you sell it, you can also buy back lower, only to see the price dropping again and you being forced to admit defeat and close the long position at a loss.
At the n-th cycle of frustration you decide to stay in fiat and just wait for a clear uptrend. Leaving your fiat on the exchange, where it is more at risk than in your bank account.
If the worrysome wait goes on for too long, you might as well want to withdraw the fiat to the bank.
So fiat slowly exits the system.

[macsga]

What bothers me the most (apart from the train not ChooChooing yet) is that after articles like this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/16/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever/?mod=WSJBlog
people still think that bitcoin is about to fail...

[latoxine]

Something i don't understand...


Don't you think the BTC price is way too high ? I mean to imagine to pay everyday things?

>Whe have changed money in europe, and it was, and it is still difficult. You loose your references. I'm 37, and remenber my grand mother crying about that years ago. ( imagine tomorrow 1 dollard = 1/6.6957 of a new US money...you are lost)


I see BTC as the same thing, but more difficult as the price is not stable at all.

An other thing is that for geeks, or mathematicians it will maybe not a problem to pay a coffee 0.000000000198562 btc, of course here we still have double cash and information displays  ( euros / francs ) but...Let's imagine this :


-Hello, let me offer you a coffee.
-hi, two coffee please
-it's 0.000000001 btc.
-thanks, good bye.

(30mn later, you want to pay for the same two coffee.)

-hello, 
-two coffe please,
-it's 0.0001 btc.
-What? so it is...ok....hum...

-So where are the coffee?
-Sorry, no coffee anymore!


Could BTC become seriously something more than a speculativ value? Would 1btc = 1dollard ( or euro  ) something possible in a good way in the future?

[macsga]

Something i don't understand...


Don't you think the BTC price is way too high ? I mean to imagine to pay everyday things?

[...]

Could BTC become seriously something more than a speculativ value? Would 1btc = 1dollard ( or euro   ) something possible in a good way in the future?

I'd advise you to take a look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money to see what "velocity of money" is standing for. Then take some time to play around with this page: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
Then; I want you to ask yourself: "What is the nominal value of an asset". ANY asset. Give yourself some time thinking about this. I hope (and believe) you will get the answer in your question. As per the fractional values of bitcoin, there are tons of proposals on how to overcome this issue. I strongly believe that when bitcoin is commonly accepted, companies like Circle https://www.circle.com/ will already have a viable solution for everybody.

Cheers.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

Why on Earth would i pay for food and drinks with BTC. Maybe in big american and western world cities you pay for everything with smartphone chips and cards but that doesnt work so well in the rest of the world. Say, there is vending machine in Kenya (Africa), its hot and you are thirsty, with what do you pay for the Cola inside of the locked vending machine? (no electricity, vending machine is operated by 2m tall black gorilla with a key)

[EuroTrash]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

[flynn]

An other thing is that for geeks, or mathematicians it will maybe not a problem to pay a coffee 0.000000000198562 btc, of course here we still have double cash and information displays 

Actually there is a problem here the geeks and the mathematicians will see : you can't pay less than a satoshi, so "0.000000000198562 btc" is just wrong.

The minimum value is 0.000,000,01 BTC = 0;01 µBTC

And two coffees are worth about 10 mBTC today, I don't see where the display problem is.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[RandomPedestrianN9]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy.

+1

[flynn]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

Suppose you want to buy an aircraft carrier which cost $ 4 billions (or a set of buildings, or a firm, or whatever around that price) with BTC
You'd need about 10,000,000 BTC which you'll have a lot of difficulty to get, and that's just one big transaction, nothing very unusual here. So I guess BTC's price will have to go up a lot if someone wants to be able to do real business with it.

[RandomPedestrianN9]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

Suppose you want to buy an aircraft carrier which cost $ 4 billions (or a set of buildings, or a firm, or whatever around that price) with BTC
You'd need about 10,000,000 BTC which you'll have a lot of difficulty to get, and that's just one big transaction, nothing very unusual here. So I guess BTC's price will have to go up a lot if someone wants to be able to do real business with it.

WHy not use Litecoin instead? Or Dogecoin, they have enough coins, no need to inflate the price.

[bitebits]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

Suppose you want to buy an aircraft carrier which cost $ 4 billions (or a set of buildings, or a firm, or whatever around that price) with BTC
You'd need about 10,000,000 BTC which you'll have a lot of difficulty to get, and that's just one big transaction, nothing very unusual here. So I guess BTC's price will have to go up a lot if someone wants to be able to do real business with it.

WHy not use Litecoin instead? Or Dogecoin, they have enough coins, no need to inflate the price.

I seriously hope you are trolling here, or do you really don't get it?

[RandomPedestrianN9]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

Suppose you want to buy an aircraft carrier which cost $ 4 billions (or a set of buildings, or a firm, or whatever around that price) with BTC
You'd need about 10,000,000 BTC which you'll have a lot of difficulty to get, and that's just one big transaction, nothing very unusual here. So I guess BTC's price will have to go up a lot if someone wants to be able to do real business with it.

WHy not use Litecoin instead? Or Dogecoin, they have enough coins, no need to inflate the price.

I seriously hope you are trolling here, or do you really don't get it?

You dont seem to get that BTC is not suitable for real world but rather as internet coin to pay for advices on forums or for porn.

[Miz4r]

1. The price is, in my view, too high, because it is based on future expectations of fiat profit as opposed to backed by an underlying economy. Doesn't mean it won't go higher for the same exact reason it is already too high.
While the real compelling use cases for using btc as payment (eg bitcoin only markets, you know which ones) could hypothetically gain traction and make the btc economy worth the actual price.

2. The decimals are not going to be a problem. The consensus so far seems to use bits = uBTC. Redditors already tip each others in hundreds of bits (which is in the same league as USD cents)

Suppose you want to buy an aircraft carrier which cost $ 4 billions (or a set of buildings, or a firm, or whatever around that price) with BTC
You'd need about 10,000,000 BTC which you'll have a lot of difficulty to get, and that's just one big transaction, nothing very unusual here. So I guess BTC's price will have to go up a lot if someone wants to be able to do real business with it.

WHy not use Litecoin instead? Or Dogecoin, they have enough coins, no need to inflate the price.

It's not about the number of coins, that's totally irrelevant. It's about what the total number of coins are worth together if bought at the current market value. If you want to do business in billions of dollars with crypto, then no matter what coin you use the price would have to be a whole lot higher to accommodate that. And you need much more liquidity ofcourse. Litecoin and Dogecoin are unlikely candidates though, and Dogecoin even more unlikely than Litecoin. But that's all reflected in their current market price already.

[xulescu]

What bothers me the most (apart from the train not ChooChooing yet) is that after articles like this:
http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/05/16/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever/?mod=WSJBlog
people still think that bitcoin is about to fail...

That article is way too relaxed given the true magnitude of the problem. There was an article on zerohedge a few weeks ago. Apparently more than half of all that debt is not used for school at all. There are people who do the third useless undergrad degree because you don't need to pay the student loans when you study. So you just get degree after degree on student debt. Some people apparently understand the black hole they're falling into any say there's nothing else they can do. They just hope the government will forgive them, because federal student debt is not bankrupt-able. And you know what, the government will, going itself further into the black hole. Indirectly, like, allow people to take undergraduate degrees forever. I'm sure they can just add the death-defaults to freddy and fannie.