Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[1714008043]

1714008043

[hmmmstrange]

BTW people please don't think he represents academics in general. I'm one and I take great offense.

There is no such thing as an "academic in general".  As you must know, they come in all colors - from unrepentant hippies to crypto-nazis.

"crypto-nazis"

What the fuck??

You even know what Nazis is? National socialism...... Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

[Toxic2040]

Oh yeah - Brazilians love there tax regime - it's so efficient!
http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/04/22/study-finds-brazils-state-to-be-tax-guzzling-inefficient/

Just like in the US, the opposition party loves to blast the current government for overtaxing and wasting money.  Only to do even worse when they get to power.   

When they were in power, those neocons who set up the "impostômetro" created a huge public debt by borrowing money at 40% interest per year or more.  Even today, 12 years after they lost the national government, more than half of all the tax revenue goes to pay interest on that debt, which only keeps growing.  (THAT is real armed robbery, because if the government tried to reject that debt, even with popular support, it would probably be toppled in short time.)  Still, "taxing Dilma" stands a good chance of winning a second term, with support not only from the lower- and middle-class "parasites" but from business people in general.

So the Neocons created the debt 12 years ago <bad?> at exactly the same time you were running around downtown with your scary "nota fiscal" that made everyone shut up shop because they thought you were a tax inspector?  Pardon me if I say I can't work out which side you are on.

I really don't care anymore at this point. Welcome to ignore Jorgi. Statements like the above really piss me off, especially coming from the mouth of a so called educated person.

p.s. I call bullshit on the "Academic interest only"

Thanks bye.

[JimboToronto]

You even know what a Nazis is? National socialism...... Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

Um. Just because they called themselves Socialists doesn't make them socialist.

They were in fact fascists, right-wingers not left-wingers.

[/politics]

[rafamadeira]

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them.

Most intelligent people 300 years ago thought people could be owned, leeches were medicine, and that outer space was filled with ether. The logical fallacy you are making is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum. 

I am not advancing that fact that as proof that governments are good. The point is that calling taxation "stealing from the people" is not reasonable, since most people believe (rightly or wrongly) that taxes are necessary and everybody should pay them. 

Of course, many or even most people may think that certain taxes are unjustified or unfair, and that certain government spending is waste.  That does not invalidate the point.

Boa noite Sr Jorge Stolfi,

Sou brasileiro também, tenho 22 anos e sou graduando de administração na Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina. Percebi que você tem um bom conhecimento do que é a experiência Bitcoin e que está buscando se informar mais. Isso é muito bom para a nossa mídia, e melhor ainda para quem quer a informação que agrega conhecimento, não só pipoca e circo.

De qualquer forma, acho que tem bastante material aqui de muita qualidade evidenciando falhas no nosso atual sistema e com embasamento teórico e histórico (queda do império romano - por exemplo). Me coloco a disposição para conversamos, caso seja do seu interesse.

Rafael

[byronbb]

You even know what a Nazis is? National socialism...... Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

Um. Just because they called themselves Socialists doesn't make them socialist.

They were in fact fascists, right-wingers not left-wingers.

[/politics]

Same difference. They had a planned economy and imposed strict societal reform.

[bitcoinsrus]

Guess what: most intelligent people understand that government and public services are a good thing, and that taxes are necessary to have them.

Most intelligent people 300 years ago thought people could be owned, leeches were medicine, and that outer space was filled with ether. The logical fallacy you are making is called http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum.  

I am not advancing that fact that as proof that governments are good. The point is that calling taxation "stealing from the people" is not reasonable, since most people believe (rightly or wrongly) that taxes are necessary and everybody should pay them.  

Of course, many or even most people may think that certain taxes are unjustified or unfair, and that certain government spending is waste.  That does not invalidate the point.

Boa noite Sr Jorge Stolfi,

Sou brasileiro também, tenho 22 anos e sou graduando de administração na Universidade Federal de Santa Catarina. Percebi que você tem um bom conhecimento do que é a experiência Bitcoin e que está buscando se informar mais. Isso é muito bom para a nossa mídia, e melhor ainda para quem quer a informação que agrega conhecimento, não só pipoca e circo.

De qualquer forma, acho que tem bastante material aqui de muita qualidade evidenciando falhas no nosso atual sistema e com embasamento teórico e histórico (queda do império romano - por exemplo). Me coloco a disposição para conversamos, caso seja do seu interesse.

Rafael

Google translated (from Portuguese)
Goodnight Mr Jorge Stolfi,

Also I am Brazilian, I'm 22 and I'm majoring in administration of Federal University of Santa Catarina. I noticed that you have a good knowledge of what is Bitcoin experience and who is seeking to learn more. This is very good for our media, and even better for those who want the information that brings new knowledge, not just popcorn and circus.

Anyway, I think there's enough material here for a lot of quality showing flaws in our current system and the historical and theoretical basis (fall of the Roman Empire - for example). I put my hand to speak, if of interest.

[billyjoeallen]

Some taxes are inevitable, and I won't complain much.  You have to pay someone to keep away all the other people who would extort you if you didn't.  Fine. Whenever I am tempted to think that life sucks, I just consider the alternatives.  There are even some taxes which are used in a socially positive manner.  Okay, not where I think the effort should be expended perhaps, but at least it's not actively evil.  In my (admittedly limited) experience, the lion's share of taxes are either lost to corruption or applied to categorical manifest evil.

When you allow people to cloak themselves with "legitimacy", the gates of hell open.  Precious few people, and no institutions, in history have had the moral fiber not to be corrupted by the power of the state, to kill or let live, according to a whim, and when you convince them that this is the moral high ground, well... what hope then?  We're watching, in real-time, the ongoing simultaneous breakdown of all of the paradigms of legitimacy with their intrinsic restraints AND the checks and balances which had previously restrained abuse by design.  It has all been sold to the highest bidder, and those bidders are NOT interested in buying your children a bright future.

I can see why someone who matured in a developing nation might consider progress to be the current norm.  We can endure so much if we hope for a better future.  It is not.  The peak daylight of human liberty and dignity is over.  It's time to prepare for the night which follows.  Prepare, and defend, in depth.

The situation would be different perhaps, were it not for the abdication of parenthood to the state creche.  Decades of propaganda leaves young adults unable to think in a way that is grounded in reality.  It typically takes decades of deprogramming before they are competent to manage their own affairs.  By that time, much of their revolutionary capacity is lost.  By middle-age, one tends to play it safe and restrict ones ambitions.  And the elderly (poor majority) do love the social safety net, so they are thoroughly bought, where one exists.

These unfortunate conditions will be temporary, but I suspect that they may endure for at least a decade, probably two.  The ones which are intrinsic to human nature will endure longer still, I hope (but am not certain).

I don't accept that taxes are inevitable. People once said that slavery had existed as long as civilization and always would. The human capacity to appropriate the fruits of other people's labor will always be with us, but it will not always necessarily be institutionalized. As far as government services go, anything worthwhile can and will be funded voluntarily. The taxers may eventually find that other types of theft and fraud are more profitable.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[NewLiberty]

http://advivo.com.br/blog/jorge-stolfi/cuidado-com-bitcoin

Yes.  Jorge thinks bitcoin is a dangerous ponzi and makes an argument there by first presenting a stawman argument in the form of an extreme false dichotomy.

Is this news?  He has seemed fairly transparent in his views of bitcoin.

I personally think he is wrong.

But who knows?

Statements like the one quoted below get me everytime. Isn't this statement also true for every central bank fiat currency, IE the USD? The USD is only worth what we believe its worth, in that what we are willing to trade for the $1.

The fact is that bitcoins have no value in themselves : they are only worth what people believe they are worth .

If anyone has better insight as to why or how this statement is true for bitcoin, but not for fiat. Please, please let me know. I'm awaiting enlightenment

the bank note is a promise

A promise of what though? Only that they would give you a different US dollar for it?

A promise that they will tax you.

[bitcoinsrus]

http://advivo.com.br/blog/jorge-stolfi/cuidado-com-bitcoin

Yes.  Jorge thinks bitcoin is a dangerous ponzi and makes an argument there by first presenting a stawman argument in the form of an extreme false dichotomy.

Is this news?  He has seemed fairly transparent in his views of bitcoin.

I personally think he is wrong.

But who knows?

Statements like the one quoted below get me everytime. Isn't this statement also true for every central bank fiat currency, IE the USD? The USD is only worth what we believe its worth, in that what we are willing to trade for the $1.

The fact is that bitcoins have no value in themselves : they are only worth what people believe they are worth .

If anyone has better insight as to why or how this statement is true for bitcoin, but not for fiat. Please, please let me know. I'm awaiting enlightenment

the bank note is a promise

A promise of what though? Only that they would give you a different US dollar for it?

A promise that they will tax you.

[Wary]

Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

Auroracoin? It's airdropped to everybody equally, as a socialist coin supposed to be. And it failed, as socialism is supposed to.  

[hyphymikey]

Julian Assange "Bitcoin could establish a new global consensus"

http://memeburn.com/2014/05/julian-assange-bitcoin-could-establish-a-new-global-consensus-net-prophet/

[hmmmstrange]

Show me one crypto coin that is socialist?

Auroracoin? It's airdropped to everybody equally, as a socialist coin supposed to be. And it failed, as socialism is supposed to.  

I stand corrected. Those air dropped coins could be construed as socialist.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

this time, it's launching from 450

my question to you is, when are you selling?

I have a resolution of not selling any below 2000.

I think that's an easy one to keep because the sell zone in the exponential trendline starts at earliest +0.4 points and we are there earliest mid-July at 4700. If it postpones till August or longer, it also goes higher.

I aim to sell at the top only, probably starting at 3000 and when it feels toppy. Apr-2013 my selling plan had just started the day before collapse. Nov-2013 I was too early (675) but managed to sell in bulk. It is hard to know the shape of the bubble top.

The ambitious plan is to buy back the same number of coins in the following crash, and use the proceeds to finish the castle repairs and miscellaneous expenses.

Thanks for your input. I’m interested to know your thoughts on the relationship between adoption and price and how this may affect your strategy. So far it looks like adoption and price are following each other and with continued adoption it seems highly likely that the price will continue to increase.

So far however, buyers and holders of btc are mainly small time individuals. In the likely event that Wall Street comes on board a few large players could seriously disrupt this correlation between user adoption and price. If you are basing your selling on your trend lines and Wall Street moves in quickly isn’t it likely that you may end up selling before the trend line has been updated?

Actually, I have been giving some thought to this Rpietila plan to NOT sell any BTC below $2,000, which seems to be in some tension with his SSS (smart,simple,sane) plan to rake some profits (such as 10% of BTC holdings) upon the doubling of the BTC price.  My plans to rake some profits from my BTC holdings will kick in around $1,700 or $1,800, but I suppose such a raking of profits plan will vary for me depending upon how quickly BTCprices go up and whether there are any imminent and probable expectations that any large investors would be coming into the BTC space.  Always there are these kinds of rumors about big investors coming in (and some information is more reliable than other info), yet there is also frequently going tto be some closed lipped manipulations of BTC prices, too.

[OldGeek]

http://cryptome.org/2014/05/weev-duns-usg-28296btc.htm

I am owed 28,296 Bitcoins. I do not accept United States dollars, as it is the preferred currency of criminal organizations such as the FBI, DOJ, ATF, and Federal Reserve and I do not assist criminal racketeering enterprises.

So, would you like to speculate on his chances of actually getting his invoice paid?

[greenlion]

Actually, I have been giving some thought to this Rpietila plan to NOT sell any BTC below $2,000, which seems to be in some tension with his SSS (smart,simple,sane) plan to rake some profits (such as 10% of BTC holdings) upon the doubling of the BTC price.  My plans to rake some profits from my BTC holdings will kick in around $1,700 or $1,800, but I suppose such a raking of profits plan will vary for me depending upon how quickly BTCprices go up and whether there are any imminent and probable expectations that any large investors would be coming into the BTC space.  Always there are these kinds of rumors about big investors coming in (and some information is more reliable than other info), yet there is also frequently going tto be some closed lipped manipulations of BTC prices, too.

Rpietila's plan is extremely rational for a long-term investor because it completely takes emotion out of the equation and provides a very simple hedge. You can tweak the parameters (like how often to rake, what %, whether it's a fixed %, whether to prioritize making back the starting investment as soon as possible, etc.), but the underlying concept is very sound to periodically take some profits as a hedge against failure to continue to grow at some point. It provides a completely predictable schedule as far as "if Bitcoin goes to this price, I know I have this".

[bitcoinsrus]

http://cryptome.org/2014/05/weev-duns-usg-28296btc.htm

I am owed 28,296 Bitcoins. I do not accept United States dollars, as it is the preferred currency of criminal organizations such as the FBI, DOJ, ATF, and Federal Reserve and I do not assist criminal racketeering enterprises.

So, would you like to speculate on his chances of actually getting his invoice paid?

I checked his address in the letter.  He received a few btc from some readers.  Maybe a publicity stunt.  And he knew he wasn't getting paid.  He insulted them severely towards the end of the letter.

[kireinaha]

http://cryptome.org/2014/05/weev-duns-usg-28296btc.htm

I am owed 28,296 Bitcoins. I do not accept United States dollars, as it is the preferred currency of criminal organizations such as the FBI, DOJ, ATF, and Federal Reserve and I do not assist criminal racketeering enterprises.

So, would you like to speculate on his chances of actually getting his invoice paid?

I was following him until this line:

"Know that all this wealth will be directed towards a good and charitable cause. I am building a series of memorial groves for the greatest patriots of our generation: Timothy McVeigh, Andrew Stack, and Marvin Heemeyer."