Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[Gingermod]

I would NOT call any body stupid or their actions stupid b/c of religion

Joining cults isn't an issue of intelligence. It's more a reflection of emotional health vs injury.

Studies say otherwise. There has been a negative correlation between religion and IQ for the majority of test subjects.

[Ivanhoe]

For anyone that can understand Italian, here is a youtube of a bitcoin hearing by the Italian government.  I think the live part is over, but this just happened today.  If it still says "live" then you will need to rewind and skip the history part to get to the hearing.

Diretta canale satellitare della Camera dei deputati:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5h-KfwC4aI

Can you write a summary for the non italians?

[phosphorush]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

[Gingermod]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

[phosphorush]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

Nice, insults are very persuasive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

or try reading "consciousness explained" by Daniel Dennett.

[aminorex]

monkey overslept, but got up in time to say this is a good intraday buy point (12:20pm Eastern)

Monkey is a misleading mammal, gave wrong prediction yesterday

Arguably yes! Arguably no.  Monkey was still short on a dily basis.  He just said it was a good intraday entry point.  In fact during particularly strong moves he does tend to call out more possible turning points than I think he should.  Usually when he picks a turn in the same direction on multiple timescales (like his daily and weekly s&p 500 bearish calls which became aligned on friday 13) the shorter term call is pretty reliable.  If he is bearish on a daily basis then any intraday bullish reports that he makes are less reliable than usual.  They can still be useful!  For example a short term bearish report during a strong uptrend can suggest a time to take profits or hedge efficiently. I usually convert naked options to spreads at such times.

[aminorex]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

Nice, insults are very persuasive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

or try reading "consciousness explained" by Daniel Dennett.

Most misleading title since moses ben maimon wrote his guide for the perplexed.

[roslinpl]

I am standing in the Embassy and cannot believe what I see ...

But .. I feel always better when I come here and read some posts and check pool results it makes me bullish again

[phosphorush]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

Nice, insults are very persuasive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

or try reading "consciousness explained" by Daniel Dennett.

Most misleading title since moses ben maimon wrote his guide for the perplexed.

More or less. Godel Escher Bach by D. Hofstadter also is good.

[mmitech]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

calling everyone an idiot doesn't imply to you being smart, neither will make you smart.

[Miz4r]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

Nice, insults are very persuasive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

or try reading "consciousness explained" by Daniel Dennett.

Daniel Dennett actually believes in free will himself, but his arguments for it are flawed imo. I prefer Tom Campbell's ideas on consciousness and free will, although I believe he doesn't have the full picture either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AihD2__gKE

[aminorex]

calling everyone an idiot doesn't imply to you being smart, neither will make you smart.

But it makes so many good friends!

[aminorex]

 Tom Campbell's ideas on consciousness and free will, although I believe he doesn't have the full picture either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AihD2__gKE

The hammeroff / penrose stuff is getting some serious empirical support lately

[smiley123]

For anyone that can understand Italian, here is a youtube of a bitcoin hearing by the Italian government.  I think the live part is over, but this just happened today.  If it still says "live" then you will need to rewind and skip the history part to get to the hearing.

Diretta canale satellitare della Camera dei deputati:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5h-KfwC4aI

Can you write a summary for the non italians?

I'll try.  It's like 3 hours long. I missed it live, so I'll report back when I'm done watching it.

[phosphorush]

Bitcoin cultists accusing religious people of being cultists? At least when it comes to religion, people are usually indoctrinated from birth and have massive social pressures (there are hardly people who convert). Now becoming a cultist of your own free will, that's something else.

Also, I don't think there is any disadvantage in investment being Muslim, what does it matter if he gets 0% instead of 1% interest? Nothing.

Free will is an illusion bro

You're an idiot

Nice, insults are very persuasive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_tG5UJMs0

or try reading "consciousness explained" by Daniel Dennett.

Daniel Dennett actually believes in free will himself, but his arguments for it are flawed imo. I prefer Tom Campbell's ideas on consciousness and free will, although I believe he doesn't have the full picture either: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AihD2__gKE

Where did he say that? I guess depends on the definition: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-Nj_rEqkyQ

He showed a deterministic computer simulation on a talk as analogy with us. We react to the environment... What he actually means by free will is freedom of action.

Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills. -  Schopenhauer

[BitChick]

the spring is loaded, extreme bitonic energy building, get on the rocket ship, get on now!

Right!?  Looking at Bitcoinwisdom this is looking eerily similar to September 29th, 2013.  I would almost say this drop is crazy bullish based on the way bubble cycles work.  This little dip, test, or whatever you want to call it, is just what we need to spring the launch to the moon.  

Speaking of "springs" here is a classic short Mystery Science Theater video we can all watch while we are waiting for the price to spring back:  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2Hym_r409g

[spooderman]

Sam Harris - good choice.

Also, for the 51%ers:

They have the potential disrupt bitcoin in a large way.

But a pool like GHash.io is demonstrating that it is not doing what that would require. (It may be, but anyone else also may be).

A 51% attack - the type worth actually being afraid of - is only done by a silent entity, apparently solving no blocks, until suddenly it braodcasts a large amount of solved blocks on a chain longer than the current chain, that goes back many blocks, leaving many transactions potentially unconfirmed, or many coins double spent. Anyone can make an alt chain at any time, but having more power than the rest of the network (meaning having over 50% of your network and the rest of the network combined) means you have the ability to make a longer chain - one that will be automatically accepted by the rest of the network.

If a person/organisation has 51% of the total power of the network (which would be greater than double the entire known hashrate of the network due to this needing to be done in secret) they can mine their own chain on which they can conduct whatever mischief they like.

However, if they are solving blocks, and broadcasting them to the network, they are starting from the beginning of their "altchain" each time they broadcast a block - and will have to start a new fork. If they hide all their blocks from the network until they have say 100 blocks, and due to their 51% of the total (secret and known) hashing power (at least 230,000Th) eventually they will have an alt chain of a greater block size than the main chain (say, 99 blocks) then all the nodes will switch over to the longer chain.

I've read over this and it's slightly confusingly put. I will explain again, hopefully better here:

If Ghash.io wants to fork us, and it can given how much power it has, it would have to use all its hashing power to make a silent, parallel chain to the blockchain which it keeps silent for as many blocks as possible, until it has a few more blocks than the main chain. If this chain has not confirmed any transactions since the beginning of the fork, or had double spends within it, it would be very disruptive. However, given that Ghash is braodcasting blocks to the network, it cannot be doing this because it is USING its hashing power to solve blocks that the bitcoin community can see, and has no issues with.

The only risk is that they start being naughty. At which point the community will react, and a solution will be found. This is unlikely, as many have pointed out because it would destroy their business.

A true bitcoin destroying entity does not do what Ghash is doing. It buys up enough hashing power to equal, and then supersede the entire network, then makes a silent, longer blockchain with lots of unconfirmed transactions, most likely transactions that they had made that were included in the shorter chain that they then make invalid, allowing them to scam people as a secondary motive, but their primary motive of course, would be to destroy bitcoin completely by making all transactions in the last x blocks (since the fork) unconfirmed, and by continuing to not allow their confirmation.

Unfortunately, the above scenario is possible, but the chances of a mining pool doing it is just as likely as anyone else doing it, and a large amount of legitimately solved blocks, even an amount greater than 51% is not an attack, it's just a lot of solved blocks. Nothing is being attacked here.

Unless Ghash is only using say 20% of it's hashrate to mine the blocks we see, and is slyly building a powerful 200Petahash rig with which it makes a huge chain that wreaks havoc on the whole community, it is doing nothing wrong, it is just solving lots of blocks.

And to be honest, it is LESS likely to be doing this than anyone else, because if it was, it would be fighting against a network whose main power comes from itself. 

Reasonable conclusion:

People who are attempting 51% attacks are not contributing to the honest part of the network, because if they were, they would be making their own goal harder.

The more legitimate blocks you create, the less likely you are to be attempting a 51% attack (the dangerous kind).

They may be attempting to make a "stupid" 51% attack, where they *shock* double spend a couple of transactions, we all notice and their whole pool comes crashing down.

Be afraid of 51% attacks. They could destroy us but they won't be done by a mining pool we all know about that submits honest blocks to the network.

[justusranvier]

This is a nice read for those who do not grasp the issue of concentration of power into one mining pool.

http://hackingdistributed.com/2014/06/13/time-for-a-hard-bitcoin-fork/

This is try #2 for them.

Their only chance of getting it right for once is via the stopped clock effect.

Note that their first attempt was an even more blatant market manipulation scheme.

[justusranvier]

I would NOT call any body stupid or their actions stupid b/c of religion

Joining cults isn't an issue of intelligence. It's more a reflection of emotional health vs injury.

Studies say otherwise. There has been a negative correlation between religion and IQ for the majority of test subjects.

Do I really have to bring up the distinction between correlation and causation?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation