Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[JayJuanGee]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikamorphy/2014/09/03/bitcoin-yawn-cheapair-is-now-taking-litecoin-and-dogecoin/

WOW

yes, I was just testing it to buy a ticket and it works like a charm, today there is plenty of places where to spend Litecoin, more than what Bitcoin had last year, beside I think that Litecoin's price will grow bigger and faster than Bitcoin's price, it is more likely that we see LTC @ $50 than BTC at $5000

YES... I am sorry that you lost so much by investing in litecoin.. but it could be possible to recuperate some of your losses, if you pump it a little and people buy into such pump attempts.  Good luck with that.

[adamstgBit]

Please, tell me an example where someone lost bitcoins from a properly secured wallet...

First you give me an example of hackers stealing credit card information from a properly secured server.

Seriously do you think Bitcoin is less secure than fiat?

Yes I do.  How do you propose to measure that?

I propose you to encrypt the fiat from your wallet: try to give a password to your $100 fiat paper, then you can try to do a brain wallet from them...

Stupid for stupid: I propose that you write a malware that can steal a 10$ bill from my pocket.

(And note the word MEASURE.)

Just for curiosity, if some day you use bitcoin to buy a car, how will you make sure that the address that you are sending the bitcoins to is indeed the car dealer's?  What will you do if the car dealer tells you that they did not receive any bitcoins, and that their payment address is not the one you used?

Do you know you can try that 'suspicious' address from your car dealer, by sending first a few shatoshis right? Just saying...

Sure.  You scan the QR code on the screen or catalog and send 1 satoshi there.

Then you check the blockchain and see that the satoshi was indeed sent to the address displayed on the screen.

You call the dealer, and Bill from Sales confirms that the satoshi was indeed deposited in their payment address.

You then send the other 999.99999999 BTC to the same address.  So you think.

You check the blockchain and find that the second transaction went to a DIFFERENT address!

You call the store, and Bill says that the second address is not theirs.   

Then what?

OR, TO KEEP THINGS SMPLE:

One day you find that all your bitcoins were stolen from all your paper wallets.

Then what?

(How could that happen? Hint: how did you create the paper wallets?)

I already provided you with an example where hackers stolen credit card information from the Sony servers, yes credit card info included, i was affected, read again my last post. -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_Network_outage

And hey man, i think you have two eyes and some read skills to check the address of your car dealer is the correct, don't you? Don't you trust yourself?

And last, are you saying that someone will try to make a collision of my offline generated private keys and stole the bitcoins? Hint: it would take an average of 1,618,542,460,620,902,128,345,579,373 years to generate a collision with a computer that is 1 million times as powerfull as all current miners combined.

TO KEEP THINGS SIMPLE: Not gonna happend

Jorge you have no idea what you are talking about, you simply are a troll sir, it makes no sense talking to people like you, so i don't gonna waste more time, welcome to my ignore list

jorge if you had only bought a bitcoin and learnt a few tricks you would know all these things....

on one can be told why bitcoin is awesome, one must experience the awesomeness.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Erdogan]

Obvious troll is becoming obvious.

It is a student question automaton. The purpose is, by means of automation, to support the students in their quest to understand bitcoin, and a test to make sure they can answer all expression of doubt with adequate clarity.

As new and ever greater waves of students enter with the passing of time, the learning starts on the base level, with the same problems. The automaton saves time that otherwise would have to be expended from the hodlers. Of course, should a student go astray, the real teacher's are only a click away, scanning the messages boards while simultaniously staring at bitcoinwisdom.

The propositions the students have to adequately refute, are presented in a round robin manner. Note that there are some inconsistencies, and there is some truthiness to some of them. This is just to sharpen the brain of the students. Here is the list (reading it before exams constitutes fraud):

It's a ponzi.

It's a pyramid.

There is no intrinsic value.

There is intrinsic value.

Transactions are expensive.

It's unsecure

It's not needed.

Price will go to 10

Killed by governments

You need a big company

Governments work as specified.

You are not supposed to be free.

They can be produced infinitely using alternative chains

It's not anonymous

Used for drugs

Its too volatile

It is not a unit of account

Nobody can understand bitcoin

There should be a bitcoin central bank

There should be a different coin in each country

When you trade using bitcoin, you have to convert currency trice

ISIS use them

gold is the only money

Nobody can afford a bitcoin

Mining monopoly will kill it

Mining is too expensive

There is no backing

There is no redemption

You can not eat bitcoin

The world is unfair

Rich people should never be allowed to decide where the factory should be located.

Girls use bitcoin

Bitcoin can run on solar power

An asteroide will hit the earth.

I should not go to bed now

[cbeast]

Obvious troll is becoming obvious.

It is a student question automaton. The purpose is, by means of automation, to support the students in their quest to understand bitcoin, and a test to make sure they can answer all expression of doubt with adequate clarity.

As new and ever greater waves of students enter with the passing of time, the learning starts on the base level, with the same problems. The automaton saves time that otherwise would have to be expended from the hodlers. Of course, should a student go astray, the real teacher's are only a click away, scanning the messages boards while simultaniously staring at bitcoinwisdom.

The propositions the students have to adequately refute, are presented in a round robin manner. Note that there are some inconsistencies, and there is some truthiness to some of them. This is just to sharpen the brain of the students. Here is the list (reading it before exams constitutes fraud):

It's a ponzi.

It's a pyramid.

There is no intrinsic value.

There is intrinsic value.

Transactions are expensive.

It's unsecure

It's not needed.

Price will go to 10

Killed by governments

You need a big company

Governments work as specified.

You are not supposed to be free.

They can be produced infinitely using alternative chains

It's not anonymous

Used for drugs

Its too volatile

It is not a unit of account

Nobody can understand bitcoin

There should be a bitcoin central bank

There should be a different coin in each country

When you trade using bitcoin, you have to convert currency trice

ISIS use them

gold is the only money

Nobody can afford a bitcoin

Mining monopoly will kill it

Mining is too expensive

There is no backing

There is no redemption

You can not eat bitcoin

The world is unfair

Rich people should never be allowed to decide where the factory should be located.

Girls use bitcoin

Bitcoin can run on solar power

An asteroide will hit the earth.

I should not go to bed now

Computers are a scam.

[JayJuanGee]

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  

But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you?  

At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government.  Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors?

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.

If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant.  In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein).

[mooncake]

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  

But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you?  

At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government.  Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors?

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.

If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant.  In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein).

Professor or not, this guy is talented, in an unusual way - making his points in the discussion seems relevant and important when they are really distractions.  

Edit: I remember during my university days, I had encountered such professors. When asked a question, instead of giving a direct answer, he would beat around the bush, hoping to confuse me so that I will give up asking. At work today, this is what some people do too, just so they can get out of the difficult situation. Even politicians, I observe do the same thing. Well, I have tried to do the same but sadly, I do not possess this skill.

[JayJuanGee]

I know that you are very skeptical of bitcoin's longterm success. If you have the time, you may want to watch the video by Ted Nelson. He coined the term "hypertext" and "hypermedia" in 1963. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson
Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CMucDjJQ4E

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  
<snip>

It has probably already been discussed, but is theft really bad? I mean, most of the times it's immoral, but evolution doesn't have anything to do with morality.
In a certain way you can see it as survival of the fittest. If hackers are smart enough to steal bitcoin it sucks if it happens to you, but bitcoin also gives the opportunity to store them extremely safe, unable to hack.

If a hacker was able to crack the complete bitcoin code, he should be awarded because honest money should be more or less indestructible.

who gives a shit, put the hackers in jail.

Did you forget the sarcasm tag or are you serious? (honest question)

if you find the hacker that stole all of the mybitcoins bitcoins..... you gana put a  scammer tag on his avatar and call it even?  are you serious?

you steal other peoples monies and you risk jail time, end of story.

That's what we're talking about!!!!!!!!   Adam = NO more Mr. Nice Guy

[JayJuanGee]

That gif reminds me of the bubbles, bubbles, bubbles gif (with the asian girl).

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[JayJuanGee]

700BTC buy in finex.

I feel pretty confident. Thank fuck I took in a long position yesterday at $465.

Looks like net=0 on that. Sell of 683 followed by a Buy of 683. Unlikely its just a coincidence.

Why would anyone sell at 691  $491 and then buy at 697  $497... unless they thought that there deliberate dump did NOT work, and they were going to miss the train?... but looks way too soon in time (only 2 minutes between the sell and the buy)

Edit:  Woops.. .I meant $491 and $497 respectively... so fixed it

[jaberwock]

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  

But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you?  

At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government.  Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors?

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.

If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant.  In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein).

I did some research and seems Jorge Stolfi is a University level professor and researcher in computer science.

He een has a wikipedia page for him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Stolfi

Considering his account is not a fake one, would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol, but he keeps acting like an academic version of the fallllling guy.

[Wary]

It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now

 

[adamstgBit]

It's a ponzi.
It's a pyramid.
There is no intrinsic value.
...
I should not go to bed now

 

we cannot go to bed

the next 8 hours are critical

 

[JayJuanGee]

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  

But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you?  

At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government.  Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors?

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.

If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant.  In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein).

Professor or not, this guy is talented, in an unusual way - making his points in the discussion seems relevant and important when they are really distractions.  

Edit: I remember during my university days, I had encountered such professors. When asked a question, instead of giving a direct answer, he would beat around the bush, hoping to confuse me so that I will give up asking. At work today, this is what some people do too, just so they can get out of the difficult situation. Even politicians, I observe do the same thing. Well, I have tried to do the same but sadly, I do not possess this skill.

Exactly... Jorge seems to be well skilled in his ability to carry out non-substantive rhetoric.

[mooncake]

I watched the video yesterday.  Yes, it is a very nice presentation.  

It's good that he avoids the exaggerated sales hype of most bitcoin enthusiasts.  However it seems he has been listening from one ear only, as he barely mentions some of the problems, or omits them altogether.  Like the impossibility of correcting mistakes or thefts.  

But, well, you can't expect an old man to properly understand such a new thing, can you?  

At one point he says that bitcoin is great because it has no rich bankers buying out government.  Is he aware of KnC buying their way into the Bitcoin Foundation, and "electing" their investor/friend Brock Pierce to the board of directors?

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.

If you think that you can offer a more balance view and you know more than him, try doing a video or at least write a paper to present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Whether Jorge is a professor or NOT, he has already demonstrated in his nearly 4,000 posts here that he is more than capable of stringing along a series of irrelevant points and building upon them to the extent to which they begin to seem almost relevant.  In other words, I would NOT mix up quantity with quality, and Jorge surely seems to be capable of producing quantity.. He could probably carry out a 24 hour marathon series of presentation of irrelevance, just to prove the point that he is NOT at a loss of words and that he is UP to the challenge to show his presentation prowess (problem will be to recognize whether there is anything meaningful related to BTC contained therein).

I did some research and seems Jorge Stolfi is a University level professor and researcher in computer science.

He een has a wikipedia page for him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jorge_Stolfi

Considering his account is not a fake one, would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol, but he keeps acting like an academic version of the fallllling guy.

I do believe he is who he says he is in this forum. But I find it hard to believe that he makes posts like that given his stature. His posts are factual, to be fair, but hardly balanced. He seems to not know that things, like a coin, have 2 sides. But overwhelmingly, he just gives one side of the matter. Oh, did I mention that he likes to distract people a lot?

[JayJuanGee]

He is an old man but it is not right to say that he does not properly understand bitcoin. This guy gave a 1 hour plus lecture on bitcoin. Try doing that if one does not know about the subject.present your case? It would be more helpful than giving comments which are often IMHO distractions from the main subject.

Sorry if the sarcasm was not clear; you must not have seen what people wrote here about me.  

I would like to offer you my public apology, Jorge, for my characterization of you as 'an old dog who won't learn a new trick'.  It really wasn't fair or particularly accurate, and, in retrospect, I would like to think my rhetorical skills are good enough that I could have made my argument without the need for that characterization.

You have my deepest apologies, and, in the future I will strive to keep my arguments at a less personal level.

Good luck!!!   You have proven to be a fairly emotional kind of poster, so far from what I have seen.    

[JorgeStolfi]

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol.  I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do.  There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues.  Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me.  They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

[grappa_barricata]

You can't solve theft, be it cash, sandwiches or bitcoin private keys. Agreed?

[adamstgBit]

would be interesting see his technical opinions about the bitcoin protocol

We went through this, perhaps 4000 pages ago...

I have no technical criticisms about the protocol.  I am satisfied that it works as it was claimed to do.  There may be some efficiency problems, but I am willing to assume that they can be solved in due time.

My skepticism about its longterm success is due to economical, political, social and practical issues.  Many of the predictions that bitcoiners take for granted seem highly improbable to me.  They minimize, or ignore altogether, many problems (such as the risk of theft) that I believe are quite serious. And so on.

just wait till the bail-in and we can talk about risk of theft.

its inevitable poeple... banks are gonna fail because the gamble with cheap money, and government said they would no longer bail them out , and so banks will start to do bail-in's

what you should worry about is 3rd party risk.