Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[findftp]

http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/fincens-new-bitcoin-guidelines-actually-good-news-48297

http://www.sys-con.com/node/3220637


 

bullish news on bitcorn, bitcorn will soon be equal to fiat

  You mean $1/BTC? 

Cheap coins

[NotLambchop]

...
Yum. Delicious reptilians.
...

>old, stale human. past expiration date

You'll be fed to your young.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[noobtrader]

http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/fincens-new-bitcoin-guidelines-actually-good-news-48297

http://www.sys-con.com/node/3220637


 

bullish news on bitcorn, bitcorn will soon be equal to fiat

  You mean $1/BTC? 

Cheap coins

i mean

1 mbtc to 1 usd

[noobtrader]

...
Yum. Delicious reptilians.
...

>old, stale human. past expiration date

You'll be fed to your young.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

y u mad, bro  

[oldm8]

one cant know if it is cheap or not, because the price is not included in the protocol

bitcoin production price is atm 131 and sold as 351... it seem fair price to me

I'm going to say this makes no sense. 170% is a nice profit margin. If this was the case we would not see the diff level off like it has in the last month.

I would also like to see where you got those numbers from...

here is my calculation :

http://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/sha-256/?hr=1400.00&p=990.00&pc=0.1000&e=Bitstamp


the cost of one bitcoin is  (just electricity) :

we need 52 days x $2.38 for electricity -----> 52x2.38=123 usd  (more or less)

but this is without ROI cost, it only the electricity, and the operator work for free.

PS: @ 1.4 T we need about 52 days to create 1 bitcoin.
 

In other words, you took one of the costs, and calculated that cost, and then you thereafter concluded that the one cost was all the costs while conceding that you had failed and/or refused to account for any additional costs.


In other words, you have NOT provided a complete and/or accurate accounting for how much it costs to produce each bitcoin.  

hmmm... but what if the electricity was free

What if?    If the electricity is free then there are more profits; and those are incentives for mining and incentives for dumping coins, but mining costs also are NOT a reflection of the totality of factors that affect current bitcoin prices.

thats why i was sayng the price above 300 was fair, i didnt said that the miner get 140% profit or anything... pls check again

Based on my fairly quick perusal, whatever point(s) your making, those points do NOT seem to be based on very complete cost calculations.... that's my main point in responding to your posts.

btw i want to add that at this usd price point (which btw is irrelevant to future price),  people have to sell 1/2 just to pay electricity versus the ideal price of 600 which ppl will just have to sell 1/3.  
which in turn increase the number of coin in circulation.

let us all pray that mass adoption happen tommorrow...

amen

I would like to see some figures from someone who is currently mining.
the average cost kwh in US is 13.01 cents
i did some back of cigarette packet calculations
5.5 tH/s rig cost $4000
rig consumes 3.5kw/Hr
electricity at 13 cents over 12 months $4000
total cost $8000
mining output including increased difficulty over 12 months yields 26 coins
taken as 2.55 coins in month 1 and 1.67 coins in month 12
at current price 26 coins $357 = $9300
that doesnt include labor, cost of housing rig, opportunity cost of the $8000 outlay etc
margins are very thin
even at electricity $0.08 in China and $0.10 in some States theres not a killing to be made.

[ShroomsKit]

And how is our old, outdated, worthless pump and dump coin doing today? Did i miss anything?

Is it about to go up, Inca?

[JimboToronto]

-

y u mad, bro  

She's not mad, just trolling.

[NotLambchop]

[The real cost of Bitcoin mining]

This is probably the closest thing to hard data on the state of commercial mining operations:

...Unlike most bitcoin companies, Digital CC Limited is a public company, trading on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) as 'digitalBTC'. This makes it is the only major mining operation with an obligation to provide such information, giving outsiders a rare glimpse into the inner working of a bitcoin mining company.

http://www.coindesk.com/digitalbtc-downplays-negative-cashflow-q3-report/
TL;DR: Q3 losses.

[janos666]

And how is our old, outdated, worthless pump and dump coin doing today? Did i miss anything?

Is it about to go up, Inca?

It seems to be failing to do so for the second time in the last few days, so I doubt that. I am not sure if it will fall or just drift away slowly. But if it falls... Oh my... that will be huge this time.

[empowering]

hmmmm..... interesting

[noobtrader]

one cant know if it is cheap or not, because the price is not included in the protocol

bitcoin production price is atm 131 and sold as 351... it seem fair price to me

I'm going to say this makes no sense. 170% is a nice profit margin. If this was the case we would not see the diff level off like it has in the last month.

I would also like to see where you got those numbers from...

here is my calculation :

http://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/sha-256/?hr=1400.00&p=990.00&pc=0.1000&e=Bitstamp


the cost of one bitcoin is  (just electricity) :

we need 52 days x $2.38 for electricity -----> 52x2.38=123 usd  (more or less)

but this is without ROI cost, it only the electricity, and the operator work for free.

PS: @ 1.4 T we need about 52 days to create 1 bitcoin.
 

In other words, you took one of the costs, and calculated that cost, and then you thereafter concluded that the one cost was all the costs while conceding that you had failed and/or refused to account for any additional costs.


In other words, you have NOT provided a complete and/or accurate accounting for how much it costs to produce each bitcoin.  

hmmm... but what if the electricity was free

What if?    If the electricity is free then there are more profits; and those are incentives for mining and incentives for dumping coins, but mining costs also are NOT a reflection of the totality of factors that affect current bitcoin prices.

thats why i was sayng the price above 300 was fair, i didnt said that the miner get 140% profit or anything... pls check again

Based on my fairly quick perusal, whatever point(s) your making, those points do NOT seem to be based on very complete cost calculations.... that's my main point in responding to your posts.

btw i want to add that at this usd price point (which btw is irrelevant to future price),  people have to sell 1/2 just to pay electricity versus the ideal price of 600 which ppl will just have to sell 1/3.  
which in turn increase the number of coin in circulation.

let us all pray that mass adoption happen tommorrow...

amen

I would like to see some figures from someone who is currently mining.
the average cost kwh in US is 13.01 cents
i did some back of cigarette packet calculations
5.5 tH/s rig cost $4000
rig consumes 3.5kw/Hr
electricity at 13 cents over 12 months $4000
total cost $8000
mining output including increased difficulty over 12 months yields 26 coins
taken as 2.55 coins in month 1 and 1.67 coins in month 12
at current price 26 coins $357 = $9300
that doesnt include labor, cost of housing rig, opportunity cost of the $8000 outlay etc
margins are very thin
even at electricity $0.08 in China and $0.10 in some States theres not a killing to be made.

 

mining bitcoin used to be ROI in 2 month thehehehehe...

[JayJuanGee]

https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/senator-schumer-wants-crack-dark-net/

Fools.   

Good luck shutting down future decentralized marketplaces like OpenBazaar lol

Next they'd want to stop illegal online file sharing, oh wait...

Though not fully eradicated, both digital piracy and child pornography have been significantly curtailed.
If dark markets using Bitcoin become a significant problem (today, they're irrelevant), expect draconian Bitcoin regulations.

Taunting us also works.



  ~Your Beneficent Reptilian Overlords.

Who is the "us" to whom you refer?

[_ajv_]

And how is our old, outdated, worthless pump and dump coin doing today? Did i miss anything?

Is it about to go up, Inca?

Don't be so crumpy all the time Shrooms. Sure it can still go down, like chessnut's ew analysis pretty much suggests, but don't you think the sentiment is changing? There have been many opportunities last few days for the bears to attack due to bad news, but for some reason the price hasn't dropped like a stone. I haven't been this excited for following the charts for a long time.

[oldm8]

[The real cost of Bitcoin mining]

This is probably the closest thing to hard data on the state of commercial mining operations:

...Unlike most bitcoin companies, Digital CC Limited is a public company, trading on the Australian Securities Exchange (ASX) as 'digitalBTC'. This makes it is the only major mining operation with an obligation to provide such information, giving outsiders a rare glimpse into the inner working of a bitcoin mining company.

http://www.coindesk.com/digitalbtc-downplays-negative-cashflow-q3-report/
TL;DR: Q3 losses.

Thanks NotLambChop
Quite an interesting article

[adaseb]

Yes it is getting pretty bad out there. The volume is drying up badly. Most likely it will trade sideways for a while.

[silverfuture]

" Indeed, you all will have options to enter the cryptocurrency sector via illegitimate ways – much like you download a movie via torrent, rather than buying an original DVD. Regulations will only open an options for you to remain on the safer side. It is up to which way you prefer."

http://www.forexminute.com/bitcoin/fincens-new-bitcoin-guidelines-actually-good-news-48297

There you have it. Both options will still be available.

[JayJuanGee]

one cant know if it is cheap or not, because the price is not included in the protocol

bitcoin production price is atm 131 and sold as 351... it seem fair price to me

I'm going to say this makes no sense. 170% is a nice profit margin. If this was the case we would not see the diff level off like it has in the last month.

I would also like to see where you got those numbers from...

here is my calculation :

http://www.coinwarz.com/miningprofitability/sha-256/?hr=1400.00&p=990.00&pc=0.1000&e=Bitstamp


the cost of one bitcoin is  (just electricity) :

we need 52 days x $2.38 for electricity -----> 52x2.38=123 usd  (more or less)

but this is without ROI cost, it only the electricity, and the operator work for free.

PS: @ 1.4 T we need about 52 days to create 1 bitcoin.
 

In other words, you took one of the costs, and calculated that cost, and then you thereafter concluded that the one cost was all the costs while conceding that you had failed and/or refused to account for any additional costs.


In other words, you have NOT provided a complete and/or accurate accounting for how much it costs to produce each bitcoin.  

hmmm... but what if the electricity was free

What if?    If the electricity is free then there are more profits; and those are incentives for mining and incentives for dumping coins, but mining costs also are NOT a reflection of the totality of factors that affect current bitcoin prices.

thats why i was sayng the price above 300 was fair, i didnt said that the miner get 140% profit or anything... pls check again

Based on my fairly quick perusal, whatever point(s) your making, those points do NOT seem to be based on very complete cost calculations.... that's my main point in responding to your posts.

btw i want to add that at this usd price point (which btw is irrelevant to future price),  people have to sell 1/2 just to pay electricity versus the ideal price of 600 which ppl will just have to sell 1/3.  
which in turn increase the number of coin in circulation.

let us all pray that mass adoption happen tommorrow...

amen

First:   I find it a little irritating that you are continuing to build hypothesis and theories based on your incomplete analysis of the cost of BTC based on ONLY the cost of electricity.... which you have also conceded to be an incomplete analysis b/c you are attempting to simplify matters.  Accordingly, you seem to be engaged into a simplification that merely is either A) at best, based on a fantasy world or 2) at worst purposefully, spreading FUD.

Second:  are continuing to build Mass adoption is NOT "a" necessary solution to advancing current BTC prices.  There are enough large bitcoin players who are invested in BTC or who could jump into BTC and upward manipulate BTC prices into the $10k to $13K territory, if they were to want to and with a lot of the current levels of BTC adoption..  Additionally if BTC prices were to spike into that $10k to $13k direction, which surely is possible (but NOT guaranteed), there would be sufficient number of hype to cause new people to find out about BTC and to jump  onto the BTC train and to assist with the causing of that upward BTC price trajectory.

Third:  Even assuming your fantasy $150 BTC production costs, your point about miners needing to sell 1/2 their bitcoin at the current price to pay for electricity seems to assume that BTC prices may stay in this price range for an extended period of time or that miners are potentially going to go along with a business model in which they are selling currently mined BTC at the current prices.  On the contrary, I am of the understanding that a large number of current BTC miners are also speculating about the BTC prices and tend to be fairly bullish about BTC prices and the direction of BTC.  Accordingly, a large number of BTC miners would NOT be inclined, in the short-term, maybe even next 6-12 months to sell currently mined BTC at these current prices (of course there are exceptions to any rule and there will be some miners whose hands will be forced and/or who are NOT bullish about the long term direction and/or prices of BTC).  In other words, you seem to be engaged in a form of fantasy thinking to be suggesting that a large number of miners are engaged in a practice to sell their BTC at current prices and engaging in a business practice based on such conceptions of current BTC prices being somehow reflective of long term BTC prices.

[mmitech]

On a more serious note,
<==click
Discuss.

Non-economic actors are buying/borrowing bitcoins OTC, then using them to sell down the market at a loss.

It will work until all the weak and gullible hands have no more bitcoins, then it won't.

The weak hands... I didn't imagine the delusion phase will be this long.

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation