Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[N12]

Thanks fonzie, awesome graphic. Great to see with actual historical data what the effect of 0 fees on volume is (inflated aka fake volume).

[manfred]

I can assure my trades are not fake and im not a bot. There have been days i had greater volume by myself than some of the smaller exchanges total. Does not mean i make a ton of money, sure beats a day at the horses and get ripped of by a bookie.

[N12]

With 0% fees, you can self-trade (market fill your limit order before others do) and the cost will be 0. If you want to trade with others, the cost will be only the (naturally low) spread. That's why I call it fake.

[skivrmt]

Explanation

You'd think this would be a tidal wave about to crash over for a nice run up...but...as usual, I'm sure a few walls will pop up to block the wave...

[ShroomsKit]

I'm tired of all this manipulation that has been pushing the price down for months and months.

[Thomas-s]

I'm tired of all this manipulation that has been pushing the price down for months and months.

There is no manipulation, Blitz said so.

[N12]

I'm tired of all this manipulation that has been pushing the price down for months and months.

You said you would soon leave this place, please keep your promise.

Well, where's our friend on BTCChina with his ask? What a surprise that he cancelled it.

[ShroomsKit]

Explanation

You'd think this would be a tidal wave about to crash over for a nice run up...but...as usual, I'm sure a few walls will pop up to block the wave...

Yup. Nobody wants to buy because they know they will instantly get dumped on.

[N12]

I'm tired of all this manipulation that has been pushing the price down for months and months.

There is no manipulation, Blitz said so.

There is manipulation, but it has no effect on the multi-month trends and upwards. Those are the result of pure inflow and outflow of money. The bear market was not "manipulated" into existence, it emerged because of undeniable realities.

Most people here call every organic (many actors, chaotic) market action that they dislike manipulative. In reality, manipulation is coordinated and often times it's obvious, like with this ask on BTCChina just now.

[grappa_barricata]

With 0% fees, you can self-trade (market fill your limit order before others do) and the cost will be 0. If you want to trade with others, the cost will be only the (naturally low) spread. That's why I call it fake.

Can't argue with this, you are right. But same thing (volume inflating) can happen (and do happen) on other exchanges too, you just have to pay some fees (like 0.3%, no big deal considering the usual volatility).

[yefi]

Wow, I just had a look at the (extremely shallow, much moreso than BTC-E) order book of BTCChina and the "volume" (supposed to be x10 that of BTC-E) that it has. It's clear that almost all of it is fake.

Seems like fonzie is right, someone's trying to induce "arbitrage" and buy at other exchanges.

It is called 'speculative arbitrage', but please do not consider volume 'fake' - if it has consequences to you it ain't fake

I'm not sure that it does have consequences. What happens is magic buy and sell orders happen in the spread. These bids and aks never appear on the orderbook, and you'll never actually eat into one, even if it seems you placed your order beforehand. The stuff is indistinguishable from make-believe and that's probably because it is.

[grappa_barricata]

Wow, I just had a look at the (extremely shallow, much moreso than BTC-E) order book of BTCChina and the "volume" (supposed to be x10 that of BTC-E) that it has. It's clear that almost all of it is fake.

Seems like fonzie is right, someone's trying to induce "arbitrage" and buy at other exchanges.

It is called 'speculative arbitrage', but please do not consider volume 'fake' - if it has consequences to you it ain't fake

I'm not sure that it does have consequences. What happens is magic buy and sell orders happen in the spread. These bids and aks never appear on the orderbook, and you'll never actually eat into one, even if it seems you placed your order beforehand. The stuff is indistinguishable from make-believe and that's probably because it is.

No no, orders are placed and consumed within the timeframe it take to bitcoinwisdom to update the book/trade history.

[Torque]

With 0% fees, you can self-trade (market fill your limit order before others do) and the cost will be 0. If you want to trade with others, the cost will be only the (naturally low) spread. That's why I call it fake.

So you're changing your tune now Blitz?  I distinctly remember posts from you months ago, where you defended Chinese exchanges saying their volume was completely legit.

[N12]

With 0% fees, you can self-trade (market fill your limit order before others do) and the cost will be 0. If you want to trade with others, the cost will be only the (naturally low) spread. That's why I call it fake.

So you're changing your tune now Blitz?  I distinctly remember posts from you months ago, where you defended Chinese exchanges saying their volume was completely legit.

Did I? I have always viewed the volume as inflated, and I remember having said so long ago. I think they are legit in the sense that there are real people trading there. There may be some completely fraudulent volume, but the same can be said of any other exchange.

By the way, I do remember that the Chinese exchanges were supposed to abolish margin, 0% fee etc. in a plan to appease the Chinese regulators. WTF happened to that?

[fonzie]

Maybe this was a actually a good happening today and the western ones will decouple a bit more(get independent) from China as todays actions were too obvious faked to take them 100% seriously and consider them without a doubt as market leader all the time, just like all the other exchanges did with Gox after a while.

[N12]

7 days until Bitstamp seizes all BTC belonging to unverified accounts.

Criminals don't have much time left to get fake IDs, spend all their filthy fiat money buying and withdraw BTC.

[ShroomsKit]

With 0% fees, you can self-trade (market fill your limit order before others do) and the cost will be 0. If you want to trade with others, the cost will be only the (naturally low) spread. That's why I call it fake.

So you're changing your tune now Blitz?  I distinctly remember posts from you months ago, where you defended Chinese exchanges saying their volume was completely legit.

He's always a bit slow.

[LFC_Bitcoin]

The price has stagnated for a while now 300-340 USD.

It'd be nice to even have a jump of 50 dollars or something.

Yawn.

[noobtrader]

can we now call this bear trap

[grappa_barricata]

7 days until Bitstamp seizes all BTC belonging to unverified accounts.

Criminals don't have much time left to get fake IDs, spend all their filthy fiat money buying and withdraw BTC.

Wait, are they doing this for real? Bitstamp has already slipped to the point of irrelevance, and now this? They are fucked!