Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion

[elasticband]

the bot bought GOXBTC with fake injected $$$ and then went into reverse and dumped into the market selling GOXBTC to everyone

edit: read this full a quick breakdown on mtgox/willy

[Omikifuse]

We would all be wealthy assholes, so why not?

This effect is proof that the willy bot did nothing.

If it was as simple as making a bot to drive the price up, the exchanges would have made another bot by now.

Uh, well.. it would be highly illegal. Not sure you understand what you're actually saying. Actually, I'm certain you dont.

"highly illegal?"         

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no? 

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

Buy stuff with non existent money is illegal anywhere, as far I know

No matter what the stuff is

[downtosimple]

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges?  They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable.  If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

[ChartBuddy]

Explanation

[Omikifuse]

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges?  They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable.  If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

[downtosimple]

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges?  They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable.  If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

Could that mean some other one is buying a lot, as well?

[manfred]

How can we compare volumes between exchanges with and without charges?  They are just not comparable.

However, the volumes by the exchange its self are comparable.  If we compare current volume of BTC-China with its past volume, we see it has resumed to volume of last bubble. The same happens on Huobi, Okcoin and Bitfinex.

Why volumes increase to or close to those of last bubble, in a downtrend market? Does that mean we are close to bottom? Anyone to comment?

Means someone is selling a lot, instead of buying a lot.

So we are in a down bubble, not an up bubble

down bubbles are no fun

[elasticband]

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost.  Satoshi N.

[elasticband]

does anyone want to claim my bitstamp account? It's really not worth my time to give them my identity so if anyone wants to claim it please PM me

Account value:$0.72BTC balance:0.00000000 BTCUSD balance:$0.72

Too the TWO people who have PM'ed me wishing to claim my balance and in particualar to the one who asked if i needed to be paid upfront........ You do notice the blance is $0.72 & 0.0000000BTC 

[derpinheimer]

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

[esse83]

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

Nope, it will just continue to hover above the fake bidwalls for now.

[janos666]

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost.  Satoshi N.

So, we should sum the money spent on mining hardware (it's a little tricky for the early general purpose hardware which probably got re-purposed by now but was allocated for some time and got partially degraded ; and it seems almost impossible to get accurate data from ASIC manufacturers) and integrate the average watt/hash (which is a little difficult but could be guessed with a reasonable tolerance) with the hash/time graph (this one is really easy to get) and extrapolate a little bit into the future (until the money spent becomes a coin sold - but it's probably not more than a few days, so given the big uncertainty of other data this step can be safely skipped).
I don't even wish to guess anything closer than "between 10 and 400$".

[NotLambchop]

why is the poll still about the prices on halloween?

Or is it about the next year's haloween?

Because Bitcoin drove Adam to drink

[elasticband]

well presuming you buy some mining HW and eventually ROI on this and you ALSO cover the cost of your electricity and you have 0.1BTC left over, How much did that cost to
produce?

edit: Now lets multiply that calculation by 10, so the cost of 1btc would be?

[jaberwock]

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost.  Satoshi N.

What if the production costs varies from people to poeple and also wether they are already producint the commodity or not?

And was BTC supposed to be a commodity?

[JayJuanGee]

the bot bought GOXBTC with fake injected $$$ and then went into reverse and dumped into the market selling GOXBTC to everyone

edit: read this full a quick breakdown on mtgox/willy

I think that I made a very similar point - when I mention an exception to if there is fraud going on. 

Accordingly, in regard to buying and/or selling with fake money/BTC while a large majority of the traders using the exchange believes that the transactions are with real money/BTC, then that is likely a different story than just employing the services of a trading bot to cause high volume price manipulation.   B/c there are several scenarios in which some large players may consider it in their interest to operate at a "loss" regarding their BTC trades in the short term in order to attempt manipulate BTC prices downward and to attempt to undermine public confidence in the viability and/or future prospects of BTC.

[JayJuanGee]

We would all be wealthy assholes, so why not?

This effect is proof that the willy bot did nothing.

If it was as simple as making a bot to drive the price up, the exchanges would have made another bot by now.

Uh, well.. it would be highly illegal. Not sure you understand what you're actually saying. Actually, I'm certain you dont.

"highly illegal?"         

What would be illegal?

A lot of the BTC world is unregulated no? 

unless you are talking about some kind of common law fraud, then that is a different story... but largely, at this time, insider trading rules do NOT apply to BTC does it?

Buy stuff with non existent money is illegal anywhere, as far I know

No matter what the stuff is

I agree about that; however, there are various practices, such as fractional reserve banking, that exist in various financial circles that have become acceptable means upon which to transact - and sometimes there can exist some murkiness regarding whether any laws are being violated, especially in an industry (BTC space) that remains largely unregulated.

[elasticband]

The price of any commodity tends to gravitate toward the production cost.  Satoshi N.

What if the production costs varies from people to poeple and also wether they are already producint the commodity or not?

And was BTC supposed to be a commodity?

see my last post on lst page for answer to first question.

Bitcoin was intended as a method of transfer between two parties without the need for a central authority.

[fonzie]

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

Nope, it will just continue to hover above the fake bidwalls for now.

I don´t think that those bidwalls are fake, i rather assume that they wan´t to get filled.

[derpinheimer]

Looks like triple top? Dump o' clock is nearing??

Nope, it will just continue to hover above the fake bidwalls for now.

I don´t think that those bidwalls are fake, i rather assume that they wan´t to get filled.

I would have to agree. Though it should be noted that 7000BTC of the bids to $290 on BitFinex are one single entity. (There are about 15000 total, so they are nearly half)