MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[jwest411]

DISPROOF by counterexample on the other hand... that's a nail in the coffin of your theory.

Honestly, I would say that there is a decent chance they will open back up. Not saying you should trust those lying bastards ever again. But there is a chance.

Under current management, hell no.  Under a more transparent competent set of executives, I would have no problem as long as they could prove their solvency.  

I agree, and I am not saying I would EVER do business with them again. I am not trying to make any judgements on how trustworthy they are... I think the bitcoin world has already made that judgement and they are guilty, no matter what. I am merely trying to figure out whether they will open up btc withdrawals. thats all.

[1714234238]

1714234238

[1714234238]

1714234238

[1714234238]

1714234238

[exocytosis]

I am merely trying to figure out whether they will open up btc withdrawals. thats all.

The consensus here, as far as I can tell, seems to be that they won't ever open up any form of BTC or fiat withdrawals? All fiat deposited at Gox now will probably be used to pay Mark's legal bills?

[itsunderstood]

How many BTC is 740k in terms of the total float?

Assuming the recent 'cold cold storage' theory [that they key is lost] is correct and those coins are lost forever, potentially?  Isn't that like 5-7% of all coins?

edit

yes, 740k lost / 12,414,250 total BTC existing =
6.9% of all BTC potentially lost if the theory of the lost key is correct.

link : http://letstalkbitcoin.com/somethings-not-right-at-gox/

[zyk]

DISPROOF by counterexample on the other hand... that's a nail in the coffin of your theory.

Honestly, I would say that there is a decent chance they will open back up. Not saying you should trust those lying bastards ever again. But there is a chance.

Under current management, hell no.  Under a more transparent competent set of executives, I would have no problem as long as they could prove their solvency.  

I agree, and I am not saying I would EVER do business with them again. I am not trying to make any judgements on how trustworthy they are... I think the bitcoin world has already made that judgement and they are guilty, no matter what. I am merely trying to figure out whether they will open up btc withdrawals. thats all.

Hell no..they won´t open up withdrawls, they won´t be taken over , the draft paper as the blog of the 2bitsidiot is all purposedly

launched to distract you, there are only fake hope news coming ( Charlie Shrem, Sturle) and thats all part of the game to conceal

the trading records of the selling where unlickily ( for making you aware where the proof could be found) even some BitPaulos have

taken part !

There are 350 million dollars involved , the overall value, perspective and use of bitcoin and the stashes of all those early

adopters- cronies of Mark ---don´´t forget that ! You are being midfucked if you can´t see the theater being played by feeding you

BS at each  timing for executing insider deals !  

You may believe me when its too late as BTC values will crash to the doubledigits if Mark and foundationcronies aren´t called out on

this !!

[itsunderstood]

[itsunderstood]

[Nagle]

The consensus here, as far as I can tell, seems to be that they won't ever open up any form of BTC or fiat withdrawals? All fiat deposited at Gox now will probably be used to pay Mark's legal bills?

That's why I've been arguing for putting Mt. Gox into involuntary bankruptcy in Japan. Someone in the legal forum is gearing up to do that.

Once that happens, a court-appointed receiver takes over control of all assets. Then, with full access to all Mt. Gox records, there's more hope of finding the "missing" Bitcoins. They're somewhere. With the FBI, the Tokyo Metropolitan Police, the Chief Cabinet Secretary of Japan, and the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York all asking questions, they might well be recovered.

It took a while, but over half of what Madoff stole has been recovered.

[Squeaker]

Ridiculous FUD due to this issue:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/protect-people-us-bitcoin-scam-issuing-federal-ban-its-public-use-similar-other-countries/q9jj4B8z

Don't sign it

They probably put it up themselves, and have been waiting for an opportunity like this to do so.

=squeak=

[Luno]

Must be the Buttcoin guy behind this!

[itsunderstood]

Ridiculous FUD due to this issue:
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/protect-people-us-bitcoin-scam-issuing-federal-ban-its-public-use-similar-other-countries/q9jj4B8z

Don't sign it

How stupid.

No surprise there.  I don't even go to that website.  Ever.

[Jeezy911]

Yea the Whitehouse doesn't have much else to do I'm sure. "Tosses it in the pile"

[Zarathustra]

Sturle's last post was made 22 feb. What's happening Sturle?

 

There is still a 'chance' that we'll enjoy a comeback of our sturle. For me, the best explanation of the situation is this one:


Summary

1. A substantial amount of the missing 740k bitcoins are still in addresses that MtGox believed they had control over

2. Transaction malleability thefts did take place, but not nearly 740k coins

3. MtGox believed they were solvent because their watch-wallet continued and continues to show expected cold storage balances

4. MtGox’s deepest coldest-cold storage reserves were never tested until the transaction malleability situation

5. MtGox can not recover the keys to the coldest-cold storage. (possibly a software problem.. custom deterministic wallet? or some other hardware/organization failure)

6. Mark has reason to think that the keys might be recoverable

7. The 2,000 odd coins mentioned in the crisis document represent whats left of the first stage cold wallet/hot wallet coins

http://letstalkbitcoin.com/somethings-not-right-at-gox/

[papamoi]

and there is this:

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/209535200/Business-Plan-MtGox-2014-2017


and that

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77988833128/the-final-goxing

[Zarathustra]

and there is this:

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/209535200/Business-Plan-MtGox-2014-2017


and that

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77988833128/the-final-goxing

Seems like this Two-Bit-Idiot was hired to put an end to any plans for a possible recovery of MtGox. He kind of lets this slip on his Tumblr.

As someone who has been heavily damaged by this MtGox issue, I wish they may come with a good plan to compensate us. The guy seems to want the opposite.

Yes, he wants the opposite, because it would be bad for bitcoin if moral hazard behavior gets rewarded.

[itsunderstood]

[itsunderstood]

[itsunderstood]

[ImI]

and there is this:

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/209535200/Business-Plan-MtGox-2014-2017


and that

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77988833128/the-final-goxing

Seems like this Two-Bit-Idiot was hired to put an end to any plans for a possible recovery of MtGox. He kind of lets this slip on his Tumblr.

As someone who has been heavily damaged by this MtGox issue, I wish they may come with a good plan to compensate us. The guy seems to want the opposite.

Yes, he wants the opposite, because it would be bad for bitcoin if moral hazard behavior gets rewarded.

WTF!? Who gets rewarded if Gox customers get 30% of their BTCs back?

[Rampion]

I would just like to add that the writing has been on the wall for MANY months. Here some quotes from +4 months ago, which are basically big discussions with Sturle, in chronological order,:

they are heavily delaying outcoming wires, while incoming wires work just fine (ohhh... No "overwhelming" with incoming money?). Everything strongly indicates they are having liquidity problems, and that they have been forced by circumstances (seizures, Coinlab, misappropriation) to run a fractional reserve.

2+2 = 4

Gox is short of $10M and they are heavily delaying withdrawals. They make up stupid excuses such as "the old financial system cannot follow the thriving BTC economy" and "our huge volume is overwhelming the biggest bank is Japan". Still, there's no problem with the money coming in, only with the money going out.

At the same time, Bitstamp is actually handling a higher volume, and processing withdrawals quickly and smoothly.

The most plausible scenario is simply that Gox is having liquidity problems.

Defendants are informed and believe that in March and April, 2013 MtGox customers, at the
suggestion of CoinLab, deposited $12,788,701.08 into one or more CoinLab bank accounts;
CoinLab then caused the amount of such funds to be credited to such customers' MtGox
accounts but CoinLab did not transfer the actual funds into the MtGox bank account. As a
result, such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available
to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account. In April, 2013, and upon
the demand of MtGox, CoinLab transferred a portion of those amounts, $ 7,473,490.29, to the
MtGox bank account, leaving a balance of approximately $ 5,315,210.79 to be transferred to
the MtGox account and which is being wrongfully held by CoinLab.

They are admitting they have a big hole, and they do not say anywhere that they had to cover the hole with their own money (I would have stated that clearly in the official document, to wipe out doubt about insolvency - wouldn't have you?). The only hard cold fact they are stating is "such customers' MtGox account reflected a higher amount of currency funds available to such customers than were actually in the MtGox bank account".

Plus, instead of being transparent and disclosing their balances as any serious company would do after the mainstream media started to write that Gox might be insolvent (Forbes, Wired....), while many customers started to leave them for good, causing a very unhealthy spread of +10% between exchanges, they just make up absurd excuses such as "the current withdraw problems are being caused by the traditional banking system, not because of a lack of liquidity at MtGox. The traditional banking partners that MtGox needs to work with, are not able to keep up with the demands of the growing Bitcoin economy"

Really? The above seems the most plausible answer to you after all the facts Gox have been hiding and that we now know?

Finally, I'm amazed by the fact you keep repeating "they have $12M in their order book", like that is somewhat reassuring:

• that money is just on Gox balances, it might very well not being backed by fiat in their back accounts (AS THEY ADMITTED IN THE COUNTER-SUE TO COINLAB)
  
• even if that money is fully backed by existing funds in their bank, what do you want them to do with it? That is supposed to be their customers money, they are not supposed to operate/cover holes with that!!
• I don't know if you have any experience in running a business, but it doesn't seem so: the fact is they only have $12M in the order book (again: customers money), and they admittedly have a hole of $10M. So, the hole is almost equal to the full amount of fiat they have in their order book, and roughly half of the all time high fiat amount they EVER had on their order book. That's HUGE, try to extrapolate that to Forex and tell me that covering such a hole wouldn't be a problem for them
• Another fact is they allegedly had only an income of $8M during the 4 months of all time high usd volume EVER, and again the hole is $10M. Let me tell you that's a huge hit for a business, having a hole significantly (20%) bigger that the income you got in your best 4 months ever is a BIG problem for ANY company. When the alleged hole was "just" $5M, I thought it was bearable. Now that we discover the hole is *at least* $10M, I can't help being worried.

Occam's would say that they are running out of cash

and the reply from Sturle to my post above:

Don't bother.  Rampion is vaccinated against facts and logic.  Completely immune.   He doesn't even read this thread (or does it very selectively), just post here from time to time.

Amazed by how people still tries to cash out using MtGox.

IMO this rally may give them additional fuel, but they are on the brink of something very bad. Too many months of obvious illiquidity.

Mt Gox has redeemed itself in my eyes. I waited 3 months for an earlier regular swift withdrawal. Cancelled it and requested expedited 5% fee withdrawal instead. Today, about 2 weeks later, just like they promised, he money hit my account. 5 figure USD amount

Wow, "expedited" or "emergency" 5% withdrawal that takes between 2 weeks and 4 weeks to clear... So much for the "emergency"

Honestly, I still think what I wrote weeks ago: the 5% fee is just a desperate attempt to make some extra money to cover Gox's losses. The BS about "the traditional banking system" not able to keep up with their volume is UTTER BS, guys I hope you know what Occam's Razor indicates here: Gox is doing fractional reserve with customers money, they have a huge hole of at least $10M and they are struggling to cover it, and that's the only reason of the huge delays in withdrawals.

Wonderful reply by Sturle to my post above:

Your mouth is big, your documentation non-existing, you are making up holes, and you fail to explain anything in a way that makes sense.

I think somebody owes an apology to the community, btw.

[Zarathustra]

and there is this:

http://fr.scribd.com/doc/209535200/Business-Plan-MtGox-2014-2017


and that

http://two-bit-idiot.tumblr.com/post/77988833128/the-final-goxing

Seems like this Two-Bit-Idiot was hired to put an end to any plans for a possible recovery of MtGox. He kind of lets this slip on his Tumblr.

As someone who has been heavily damaged by this MtGox issue, I wish they may come with a good plan to compensate us. The guy seems to want the opposite.

Yes, he wants the opposite, because it would be bad for bitcoin if moral hazard behavior gets rewarded.

WTF!? Who gets rewarded if Gox customers get 30% of their BTCs back?

Who? Everybody who listened to sturle et al. and stored the coins there until the end.