MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[alfabitcoin]

[...]

money laundering of course

[...]

And here we must ask further questions, shan't we?

Laundering money is done by "legit front".  Like, if Michael Corleone takes over a gumball and pinball concern, he will not just be making gumball and pinball machines.  BUT, everyone knows that.

So, it is like a 100 year+ line of oddness, that due to Internet, is now being affected in ways nobody thought possible.

English is not my native luanguage so I am not clear with your post.
Laundering money is only one reason,but whatever reason of bank having the same verification purpose apply here. Remember, when we exchange coins for fiat, annonimous currency term does not apply anymore, because simple fact, you do not have coins anymore. Exchange banking partner require ID in order to get fiat, what else can we say about it? Nothing, either we accept it or carry on with having coins only. Its simple virtual currency vs fiat conflict about regulation.

edit
On another hand;
I think that americans has different view on submiting the documents online and have different mentality towards it then let say europeans. Those in EU who play on online casino (before bitcoin) and forex or similar got used to it. To them there is nothing unusual of verification being mandatory with those services.
Beside, things change, bitcoin grew up in price and users and become massive. There is too much money here going on and banks got concerned and started to pressure exchange. Buttom line, we can not do nothing about it, exchange otc or using btc only.
I fully agree, we need to have something to prevent another mtgox. Ok, this went oof topic in full

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[itsunderstood]

[...]

Those in EU who play on online casino (before bitcoin) and forex or similar got used to it. To them there is nothing unusual of verification being mandatory with those services.

[...]

Yes, I would say they are better conditioned to surrender their identity papers when asked, and that is due to war weariness of generations in the EU, like, the post-war Europeans just want to get along, and who can blame them when so much war has destroyed their families?

Yes, as you say, Americans are less conditioned and so they may struggle a bit, but eventually they will learn to present their papers please?

Oh but I should add, that, when your people are conditioned like Pavlov's dog, well, if the government is captured or fails (always happens 100% of the time) then that same reflex can get you in an internment camp and/or killed.  I am just speaking of history, and history is my forte.  Thanks tho, you make good points and I respect everyone who learns a second language. 

[Roy Badami]

[...]

Those in EU who play on online casino (before bitcoin) and forex or similar got used to it. To them there is nothing unusual of verification being mandatory with those services.

[...]

Yes, I would say they are better conditioned to surrender their identity papers when asked, and that is due to war weariness of generations in the EU, like, the post-war Europeans just want to get along, and who can blame them when so much war has destroyed their families?

Yes, as you say, Americans are less conditioned and so they may struggle a bit, but eventually they will learn to present their papers please?

Oh but I should add, that, when your people are conditioned like Pavlov's dog, well, if the government is captured or fails (always happens 100% of the time) then that same reflex can get you in an internment camp and/or killed.  I am just speaking of history, and history is my forte.  Thanks tho, you make good points and I respect everyone who learns a second language. 

Depends where you are in the EU.  Here in the UK, we don't have so much of an identify culture.  I'm always annoyed and angered when visiting the US that I'm asked to show my ID documents every time I visit a bar.  And I'm told that in the US you can be arrested for failing to carry your documents with you when driving a car, even if you are legally entitled to drive and are breaking no (other) laws.  As a Brit, I find that pretty shocking.  Here in Britain we're not used to being required to routinely carry identity documents, as one clearly is (IME) in the US.

roy

[alfabitcoin]

[...]

Those in EU who play on online casino (before bitcoin) and forex or similar got used to it. To them there is nothing unusual of verification being mandatory with those services.

[...]

Yes, I would say they are better conditioned to surrender their identity papers when asked, and that is due to war weariness of generations in the EU, like, the post-war Europeans just want to get along, and who can blame them when so much war has destroyed their families?

Yes, as you say, Americans are less conditioned and so they may struggle a bit, but eventually they will learn to present their papers please?

Oh but I should add, that, when your people are conditioned like Pavlov's dog, well, if the government is captured or fails (always happens 100% of the time) then that same reflex can get you in an internment camp and/or killed.  I am just speaking of history, and history is my forte.  Thanks tho, you make good points and I respect everyone who learns a second language.  

Depends where you are in the EU.  Here in the UK, we don't have so much of an identify culture.  I'm always annoyed and angered when visiting the US that I'm asked to show my ID documents every time I visit a bar.  And I'm told that in the US you can be arrested for failing to carry your documents with you when driving a car, even if you are legally entitled to drive and are breaking no (other) laws.  As a Brit, I find that pretty shocking.  Here in Britain we're not used to being required to routinely carry identity documents, as one clearly is (IME) in the US.

roy

yap, its diferent country to country. I thought there is a ban of casino for some US state, or did I get this wrong?
Here were are not allowed to be without ID (if police stop us). Bar don't ask us for id though
ID is also prove of residance here in croatia.

[Roy Badami]

Here in the UK many people carry no ID.  In fact, in the UK, quite a lot of people don't actually possess any government issued photo-ID at all.  We seem to manage just fine here without the ID culture that the US and many other European countries seem to espouse.

[itsunderstood]

Depends where you are in the EU.  Here in the UK, we don't have so much of an identify culture.  I'm always annoyed and angered when visiting the US that I'm asked to show my ID documents every time I visit a bar.  And I'm told that in the US you can be arrested for failing to carry your documents with you when driving a car, even if you are legally entitled to drive and are breaking no (other) laws.  As a Brit, I find that pretty shocking.  Here in Britain we're not used to being required to routinely carry identity documents, as one clearly is (IME) in the US.

roy

You make excellent points, I've not been to the UK just to Rotterdam for a week or so and Ireland.

I will say this: When I re-ntered the USA, it was like getting into a prison or a military base, I don't know which.  I know as you say, that there is a different America at the borders, than what exists on the highways inside and also the banks.  But, the highway troopers and the bankers both know what's coming.  And they will do as they are told or they will lose their paychecks and pensions, I bet.

Please do not see me as saying America is better.  Just maybe, more ripe for the same kind of kick in the teeth that Europe has had, by Himmler and Shicklgruber and Joe Steel and Whomever the 12th, etc.  America does have a final phase of "Resistance against tyranny" like "show me your papers", but I do not advise my country go down the road of violence because it's a setup.

But, you spoke to the experience of US customs and border, and it is true, the interior Americans who do not ever travel, have no idea how different it is at the borders, so, presumably, when the "border" mentality, the SS mentality, merges into their cops/troopers/guardsmen (at some unknown % rate) they will probably be just as surprised as the Polish people were, when Ribbentrop and Stalin set them up as a meal.

[Roy Badami]

Well, I wasn't really talking about the border experience.  But I will say this:

Sure, as a visitor I get the whole 50 quetions when visiting the US and it's a bit disconcerting.  But I find it a bit weird that Americans coming home get the same experience....

As a Brit, coming home to Britain, they just scan my passport, loop up at me and nod, and maybe say barely one word, if that.  I know our border controls are just as bad as yours at making visitors unwelcome (at least visitors from outside the EU/EEA) but as a citizen coming home we never get that kind of treatment. 

[itsunderstood]

I think the Goxxies of all nations (truly a United Nation of merit, the Goxxed) have a beef here, in tems of their being early adopters and early vicitms.

The target ostensibly is "black markets" like SR.  I mean, really, do you want babies being sold?  But then, we don't really value babies, or perhaps we do, since a baby is worth x# of USD fiat?  Well, a mother has the right to monetize her fetus, perhaps?  It is a deep question, one for the Pope him self to "tweet" an answer.

Haha, I am so trolling this thread but I think my efforts have been noble: I was here as th Goxxies were getting f'ed and sturle and crew told them how to profit.  Those pages were great, Donk4u was also great as this was all happening.  Epic thread here.

Cryptocoin is essentially the new system.  But, new system of what?  Can cryptocoin free people from roadside checkpoints?  Probably not.  But, GUTS CAN.  And yet, if you have guts, how would you prove it?  I say guts is proven by calling bullshit in the face of bullshit.  And Gox keeping the deposit window open was pure theft --unless they were puppeted by law-cadre who is pursuing "black markets"

I don't like black markets per se, nor did Solomon or any King who letteth the merchants and donkey caravans into his lands.  But, to steal all the people's money of diverse lands in the name of righteousness, is, well, unrighteous imo.

[lightfoot]

As a Brit, coming home to Britain, they just scan my passport, loop up at me and nod, and maybe say barely one word, if that.  I know our border controls are just as bad as yours at making visitors unwelcome (at least visitors from outside the EU/EEA) but as a citizen coming home we never get that kind of treatment. 

Heh. I remember going over from Czech to Germany in the 90's. Nice friendly border guards, no problem.

Took the train back to Prague and stopped in Cheb, which was apparently the border town. I was reading a magazine and heard to my left:

MNMNWEEWKJHQWI

Which I quietly ignored. Then

NMFMNJTJTWHJJKHTEJK WTJHWTEJKHT

Still reading.

Then I felt a gentle tap on my side, right between the ribs. Gentle. Turned and saw a camo dressed man with a Kalashnikov barrel pressed gently against my side.

MNMNWEEWKJHQWI

Which I instantly translated as "Your passport, please" even though I spoke minimal Czech.

Not sure if the US border guards have gotten this odd yet.

[itsunderstood]

[...]

As a Brit, coming home to Britain, they just scan my passport, look up at me and nod

[...]

There is so much unspoken in this world.  Indeed I hear you.

I guess I am saying, each nation will police its own citizens as it will.  And, those that police their citizens the free-est, the best, are the first world nations?  Is that true?  I think for the most part it is, but then I was born into luxury, because, I was born an American, LOL.  A penniless American but one who knows the value of freedom.

[smoothie]

Holding someone's money hostage is a big deal.

I left mtgox in June last year after it was obvious they were blatantly lying with their TwoWeeks^TM mantra, and were holding money hostage.

You knew this too and allowed $5k to get stuck on gox. Just because you like hammering gox you don't need to hammer bitstamp as well. Bitstamp have behaved honorably at all times.

Some of us tried to close accounts in early May, you were lucky, don't call other people stupid!!

How do you "try" to close an account aside from just buying BTC and withdrawing?

I did it after their Two Week bullshit and never looked back. So far so good.

[Lohoris]

I'd argue that any financial institution which has higher requirements for withdrawal than for deposit is probably engaging in fraud.

If you open an account at a US brokerage or bank, all "verification" takes place before they let you deposit money. Thereafter, the only question on withdrawal is whether there's enough in the account and whether the withdrawer is the same as the depositor. Difficulties with withdrawals are generally considered a strong indication of a scam.

Much true, glad you pointed that out.
So we have two serious offences: no real warning sent, and different rules for deposit and withdraw.

[alfabitcoin]

I'd argue that any financial institution which has higher requirements for withdrawal than for deposit is probably engaging in fraud.

If you open an account at a US brokerage or bank, all "verification" takes place before they let you deposit money. Thereafter, the only question on withdrawal is whether there's enough in the account and whether the withdrawer is the same as the depositor. Difficulties with withdrawals are generally considered a strong indication of a scam.

Much true, glad you pointed that out.
So we have two serious offences: no real warning sent, and different rules for deposit and withdraw.

Lohoris, keep trolling, you lost argument long time ago. This is a notice for unverified user on bitstamp deposit page! Same warning is for bitcoin deposit!
Just stop, its pathetic and getting nowhere!
Go figure facts first before making bs claims!

All users need to be aml verified in order to use bitstamp exchange! No deposit accepted, period. If any user before october 2013. had funds when they started to enforce that policy, and user refused to get verified, bitstamp would retunr thier funds according to termination section in terms of service!
If you do not like it, do not use it, end of story!




screenshot app

[tvbcof]

...
All users need to be aml verified in order to use bitstamp exchange! No deposit accepted, period. If any user before october 2013. had funds when they started to enforce that policy, and user refused to get verified, bitstamp would retunr thier funds according to termination section in terms of service!
...

I mostly pay attention to people who had first-hand experience:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309270.0

I happened to be on the hunt for a trustworthy exchange when this went down so I was paying particular attention to the details of how different operators ran their operations.  Suffice it to say, I was unimpressed in this case.

I think it is entirely fair to say that Bitstamp choose a strategy which can only be considered deceptive when they rolled in this new policy.  I can, however, understand if they were overloaded and not able to properly implement a manual override to allow people to get their BTC back without sacrificing their high quality ID scans.  Even if so it would still be their own damn fault.  Had they simply sent an e-mail this guy would not have had to discover their API bug to retrieve his BTC.  (And this bug in and of itself, while welcome, was not exactly great advertising on how tightly the run their ship.)

[alfabitcoin]

...
All users need to be aml verified in order to use bitstamp exchange! No deposit accepted, period. If any user before october 2013. had funds when they started to enforce that policy, and user refused to get verified, bitstamp would retunr thier funds according to termination section in terms of service!
...

I mostly pay attention to people who had first-hand experience:

  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=309270.0

I happened to be on the hunt for a trustworthy exchange when this went down so I was paying particular attention to the details of how different operators ran their operations.  Suffice it to say, I was unimpressed in this case.

I think it is entirely fair to say that Bitstamp choose a strategy which can only be considered deceptive when they rolled in this new policy.  I can, however, understand if they were overloaded and not able to properly implement a manual override to allow people to get their BTC back without sacrificing their high quality ID scans.  Even if so it would still be their own damn fault.  Had they simply sent an e-mail this guy would not have had to discover their API bug to retrieve his BTC.  (And this bug in and of itself, while welcome, was not exactly great advertising on how tightly the run their ship.)

Iam sure bitstamp and majority of users does not think they been deceptive. Annonement of aml policy were been on their site and on deposit/withdraw section for a whole month before they started to use it.
Bitstamp does not communicate via email for numerous reason - mostly phishing, fud, price manipulation etc and I think its smart move. (read TOS email section) Official statemants are considered on bitstamp site only and if user continue to use thir sevice it mean they accepted it.
If it happen of some user after annoncement being active and refused to submit ID, they would get their funds back via bank. If one of user find it fishy, so be it. Its users fault of not visiting an exchange for more then a month or not to read thir terms of service and continue to blame it.
As for this guy calling something as API "bug" as we have no way of confirming it, I would refrain of commenting it. That member just want not to be veiried and posted a lot of false claims. He can still get his fund via bank account so I believe his posting as pure FUD! He trusted them with holding his coins and fiat, but he do not trust them to send his scan of ID? What a nosense!
I see only a couple who dont even have account on bitstamp! Again, do not use bitstamp if you diagree on their tos, period.
Finally, I see posters somehow find reliable some forum members on forum rather then get true facts on them own. All that nosense about how they announced only with facebook or did not get any notification on their site is been refutted many times. If not this, then is that - trolling never stop!
Iam not saying bitstamp are perfect or that there is no room of improvement, but regarding their aml policy and notification they did everithinh by the book and their terms. It would be absurd if bitstamp would do something outside of theirown policy!
If one or two users need some special notifications to be sent or holding the hand while the rest have not issues, what you expect bitstamp to do? Its ridicolous, this poster did not read the terms and continue to blame on bitstamp for his own fault!
This thread is about mtgox withdraw problems and pretty much dead as mtgox situation. so I suggest if you still want to bash bitstamp for whatever reason, start a new thread.

[42coin fever]

As a Brit, coming home to Britain, they just scan my passport, loop up at me and nod, and maybe say barely one word, if that.  I know our border controls are just as bad as yours at making visitors unwelcome (at least visitors from outside the EU/EEA) but as a citizen coming home we never get that kind of treatment. 

Heh. I remember going over from Czech to Germany in the 90's. Nice friendly border guards, no problem.

Took the train back to Prague and stopped in Cheb, which was apparently the border town. I was reading a magazine and heard to my left:

MNMNWEEWKJHQWI

Which I quietly ignored. Then

NMFMNJTJTWHJJKHTEJK WTJHWTEJKHT

Still reading.

Then I felt a gentle tap on my side, right between the ribs. Gentle. Turned and saw a camo dressed man with a Kalashnikov barrel pressed gently against my side.

MNMNWEEWKJHQWI

Which I instantly translated as "Your passport, please" even though I spoke minimal Czech.

Not sure if the US border guards have gotten this odd yet.

You'll be in big trouble if you doing same. US boarder will turn your laugage inside out plus strip search including poke into you asses as if you are a suspect of something... If they could, lock you in a room for hours before someone come in interogate you like a terrorist being caught. Expect the unexpected, a guy been locked in a room for days force to drink his own urine to survive. The boarder custom officers go unpunished.

[rikkejohn]

I used Bitstamp for about a year, then stopped.

So obviously I did not login to my account. When I did, I was surprised to find I could not deposit.

I don't know why people think that people who are bit annoyed are odd, especially if they had funds there. Not everyone lives on the exchange.

The whole point of bitcoin was the "peer-to-peer" thing. Now it seems like it is becoming regulated by stealth.

It may make things safer, though. So I guess it is a good thing, and one less challenge to navigate at the End of History.

[alfabitcoin]

I used Bitstamp for about a year, then stopped.

So obviously I did not login to my account. When I did, I was surprised to find I could not deposit.

I don't know why people think that people who are bit annoyed are odd, especially if they had funds there. Not everyone lives on the exchange.

The whole point of bitcoin was the "peer-to-peer" thing. Now it seems like it is becoming regulated by stealth.

It may make things safer, though. So I guess it is a good thing, and one less challenge to navigate at the End of History.

Bitcoin is peer2peer, but when you exchange it for fiat then is not anymore as you holding a fiat what is regulated and this is a exchange and not a bitcoin wallet.. And you can still get your funds back via bank without submitting ID. Just make sure its your bank account, that is all.
Afterall, what is hard to understand? Exchange need to cover they asses when dealing with convencional currency - bank require it.
Only one who bitch are ones who do not want to submit their documents and want to get back as it was. Sorry, no can do anymore. If I run exchange I would denie them a service as well.

[ezisdog]

When we live in a culture we strange other cultures, isn't it?

I never understood why people gets upset when an exchange asks your ID. This is because in my country , within UE, i can be arrested (for a couple of hours) only because i don't carry my ID documents (nationality and driver license) when i'm on public places (streets, sidewalks, etc). If an officer stops me and asks for my ID i have to show him my documents. It's simple as that...

[TooDumbForBitcoin]

a guy been locked in a room for days force to drink his own urine to survive.

this was not a border bust - this was a DEA (drug) bust.