MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[raskul]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

the administrators will pay back the money from any funds left in gox, in order of importance (which is a bit shit considering it's up to the administrators to assign the order of importance)... it's a messy affair.

Administrators are surly not on the scene yet because this is filing for Bankruptcy protection and not bankruptcy just yet anyway?

Edit: ah do you mean Mt gox administrators ?

I'm not so sure I understand fully how it would work in Japan. I am pretty sure in the UK there is no middle ground, you either go pankrupt or you are solvent...

[V4Vendettas]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

If hackers have gotten more coins out than they owned, then depositing, selling and withdrawing them as fiat on Gox again, would drain Gox's fiat balances in a similar way as their Bitcoin balance.

Makes sense. But really ? could they really not notice this ?

[V4Vendettas]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

the administrators will pay back the money from any funds left in gox, in order of importance (which is a bit shit considering it's up to the administrators to assign the order of importance)... it's a messy affair.

Administrators are surly not on the scene yet because this is filing for Bankruptcy protection and not bankruptcy just yet anyway?

Edit: ah do you mean Mt gox administrators ?

I'm not so sure I understand fully how it would work in Japan. I am pretty sure in the UK there is no middle ground, you either go pankrupt or you are solvent...

Yes I am having a hard time with this also. From what I'm seeing Japan has given MT Gox a chance to sort its life out because they believe it is possible. Why on earth would they grant protection form things like Involuntary bankruptcy I just don't get it. Unless there is some way of Gox fixing all this which I doubt. It makes no sense.  

[zyk]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

If hackers have gotten more coins out than they owned, then depositing, selling and withdrawing them as fiat on Gox again, would drain Gox's fiat balances in a similar way as their Bitcoin balance.

Makes sense. But really ? could they really not notice this ?

OMG- they sold them for 300 to 100 dollars to you and the balances were all withdrawn to unverified accounts

or the cat ate the names of said accounts....Bitcoinfoundation anyone?

[jack0m]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

If hackers have gotten more coins out than they owned, then depositing, selling and withdrawing them as fiat on Gox again, would drain Gox's fiat balances in a similar way as their Bitcoin balance.

Makes sense. But really ? could they really not notice this ?

but if they sold those coins to some other Gox users, they had to pay fiat. And that fiat came either from selling other stolen bitcoins, so the net outflow is of BTC only, or from a fiat deposit. Or from legit trades of BTC you might track back until you find a deposit. What am I missing?
EDIT: does it make sense if we assume they were stolen quite long ago, when they could be traded at a much lower rate than today?

[bitserve]

I'm not so sure I understand fully how it would work in Japan. I am pretty sure in the UK there is no middle ground, you either go pankrupt or you are solvent...

If it is the same as in Spain and many other countries, it is a different thing.

Basically it means the corporate is not bankrupt (not just yet) but it has a lack of liquidity that makes it impossible to fulfil its debts in the short term. It then gains some time to solve the liquidity problem (by selling some assets, recovering pending debts, etc) so that it can restart its normal operation... or not, and then it files definitive bankruptcy.

[Lohoris]

Basically it means the corporate is not bankrupt (not just yet) but it has a lack of liquidity that makes it impossible to fulfil its debts in the short term. It then gains some time to solve the liquidity problem (by selling some assets, recovering pending debts, etc) so that it can restart its normal operation... or not, and then it files definitive bankruptcy.

Sure but this is unlikely gox' situation: their hole is apparently massive, and their assets are near zero.
Of course I might be mistaken...

[raskul]

All the bitcoins were stolen... how about the euros/dollars we had stored there? Can't they be given back? Anyone?

the administrators will pay back the money from any funds left in gox, in order of importance (which is a bit shit considering it's up to the administrators to assign the order of importance)... it's a messy affair.

Administrators are surly not on the scene yet because this is filing for Bankruptcy protection and not bankruptcy just yet anyway?

Edit: ah do you mean Mt gox administrators ?

I'm not so sure I understand fully how it would work in Japan. I am pretty sure in the UK there is no middle ground, you either go pankrupt or you are solvent...

Yes I am having a hard time with this also. From what I'm seeing Japan has given MT Gox a chance to sort its life out because they believe it is possible. Why on earth would they grant protection form things like Involuntary bankruptcy I just don't get it. Unless there is some way of Gox fixing all this which I doubt. It makes no sense.  

being Japan, I can imagine they woud want to give the struggling company a chance to prove itself by paying back as much as it can, however, I doubt very much that they will be able to accomplish this and I am 99% sure that full bankruptcy is imminent for gox. sadly.

[bitserve]

Basically it means the corporate is not bankrupt (not just yet) but it has a lack of liquidity that makes it impossible to fulfil its debts in the short term. It then gains some time to solve the liquidity problem (by selling some assets, recovering pending debts, etc) so that it can restart its normal operation... or not, and then it files definitive bankruptcy.

Sure but this is unlikely gox' situation: their whole is apparently massive, and their assets are near zero.
Of course I might be mistaken...

Yep... apparently. Unless one of those theories like the one about the 200K BTC on accounts used on the 2011 showoff prove to be right, or who knows what.

Until Mtgox publish (at least to those legitimate parties) its detailed internal accounting, including the list of all the cold wallet addresses used over all these years, we won't know for sure.

[zyk]

Who got the last reported Sepa - withdrawl of MT. Gox for putting up in the hall of fame?

S T U R L E ?

[PirateHatForTea]

I wrote a transcript of the Japanese news item on Gox:

Presenter:
インタネット上の仮想通貨ビットコインの取引を停止した東京のマウントゴックスの代表が先ほど会見し謝罪しました

Mark Karpeles:
申し訳ありませんでした。(This is what the show's caption says - if it's what Mark says then he pronounced it HORRIBLY - sounds like he says moshiwake oi arimashita)
システムに弱いところがあってビットコインがいなくなって、（まあ）、皆に結果で「あの～ま」ご迷惑をおかけてしまって「あのー」本当に申し訳ありませんと思います。(He also seems to use iru instead of aru here - which is weird as iru is only for animate objects. Mark may just have been very nervous, but it seems like his Japanese is not too crash hot.)

Presenter:
マークカペレス代表はマウントゴックスが３０億円近い債務超過きょう付け東京地裁に民事再生手続開始を申し立てと明らかにしました。また、不正アクセスにより、違法にビットコインが引き出された可能性があるとして、刑事告訴う検討してることです


And translated it.

Presenter:
The representative of Tokyo's Mount Gox, which has halted withdrawals of internet virtual currency Bitcoin, has just given an interview and apology.

Mark K:
It is inexcusable (formal way of apologizing in Japan).
The system had a weak point, and the bitcoin disappeared (lit. "became not there"). We have caused a great deal of trouble (again this is a canned formal apology phrase used frequently in Japanese) and are truly sorry (again this is the 'it is inexcusable' construct).

Presenter:
Today CEO Mark Karpeles revealed that with close to 3,000,000,000 yen in excess liabilities, Mount Gox has filed for civil rehabilitation proceedings. As there is the possibility that Bitcoin were withdrawen illegally via unauthorized access, filing of a criminal complaint is under consideration.

[donk4u]

As mt gox customer service always end their correspondence~  SORRY FOR THE INCONVENIENCE

[FrictionlessCoin]

I wrote a transcript of the Japanese news item on Gox:

Presenter:
インタネット上の仮想通貨ビットコインの取引を停止した東京のマウントゴックスの代表が先ほど会見し謝罪しました

Mark Karpeles:
申し訳ありませんでした。(This is what the show's caption says - if it's what Mark says then he pronounced it HORRIBLY - sounds like he says moshiwake oi arimashita)
システムに弱いところがあってビットコインがいなくなって、（まあ）、皆に結果で「あの～ま」ご迷惑をおかけてしまって「あのー」本当に申し訳ありませんと思います。(He also seems to use iru instead of aru here - which is weird as iru is only for animate objects. Mark may just have been very nervous, but it seems like his Japanese is not too crash hot.)

Presenter:
マークカペレス代表はマウントゴックスが３０億円近い債務超過きょう付け東京地裁に民事再生手続開始を申し立てと明らかにしました。また、不正アクセスにより、違法にビットコインが引き出された可能性があるとして、刑事告訴う検討してることです


And translated it.

Presenter:
The representative of Tokyo's Mount Gox, which has halted withdrawals of internet virtual currency Bitcoin, has just given an interview and apology.

Mark K:
It is inexcusable (formal way of apologizing in Japan).
The system had a weak point, and the bitcoin disappeared (lit. "became not there"). We have caused a great deal of trouble (again this is a canned formal apology phrase used frequently in Japanese) and are truly sorry (again this is the 'it is inexcusable' construct).

Presenter:
Today CEO Mark Karpeles revealed that with close to 3,000,000,000 yen in excess liabilities, Mount Gox has filed for civil rehabilitation proceedings. As there is the possibility that Bitcoin were withdrawen illegally via unauthorized access, filing of a criminal complaint is under consideration.

Need to wait for internal auditors to determine if BTC was actually stolen by another party or whether Mt.Gox itself stole the BTC.   Very big difference.

[cozytrade]

As there is the possibility that Bitcoin were withdrawen illegally via unauthorized access, filing of a criminal complaint is under consideration.

That is a standard practice but bigger issue is when and why they did not disclose that soon.

[Rampion]

Full bankruptcy seems totally inevitable. If those leaked documents are true Gox is considering customer funds as assets, which is completely ridiculous, as they shouldn't even be in their balances as MtGox is not a bank but an exchange. If the numbers on those documents are true then the assets of Gox are near 0, they just have a database with the IDs of 1M infuriated customers and a brand which is destroyed.

Plus, a debt of +700k coins is so unbelievably huge that NOBODY would pay a single penny for Gox if that is true.

I wouldn't buy a single Goxcoin above 0.05,and even at that price I wouldn't risk more than a few play BTC. Chances are the ship has sinked for good.

[Luno]

Another thing: They updated their hardware in 2012 I think, and they explicitly stated that they had a mirror running in parallel as backup and for update testing. That system should be in place still, so any rumours about lost records should not be taken seriously. Specs and pics of the hardware are around.

Pending withdrawals could be on another system, I don't know.

The question is if Bitcoin is valued under Japanese law or they only are liable for cash balances. Then being registered in Japan is clever. But the Bitcoins was mentioned as a loss, so I think they will get some asserted value if this goes to liquidation.

It was his press conference, no hand cuffs. So when the law speaks, and it will if he called the Japanese cyber cops himself, they might have a completely different view of what happened.

[Nagle]

I wrote a transcript of the Japanese news item on Gox:

Thanks.

It looks like someone coached him through a traditional formal apology. But it wasn't followed by any atonement. He didn't even resign.

[papamoi]

I wrote a transcript of the Japanese news item on Gox:

Thanks.

It looks like someone coached him through a traditional formal apology. But it wasn't followed by any atonement. He didn't even resign.

he cant he is the main owner and has the keys

[pedro82]

700K btc vanish without trace from a cold wallet ? How is that possible ?

a)   Until they prove innocent MT.GOX is the main suspect of an eventual fraud/theft.
b)   Now imagine how save is costumers id if they can’t even  protect btc.

Gox leaks become worst every day , I’m really surprised how btc market price is doing so well to something like this  !!!

[solex]

I wrote a transcript of the Japanese news item on Gox:

Thanks.

It looks like someone coached him through a traditional formal apology. But it wasn't followed by any atonement. He didn't even resign.

That's the Western fashion now. To say "I take full responsibility for what happened." and not do anything more.