MtGox withdrawal delays [Gathering]

[sturle]

There is no need to withdraw fiat from MtGox to make profit on e.g. arbitrage trade.  Many people don't get that, which makes it very profitable for the rest of us.

Oh, most people get it, dont you worry. I hope everybody keeps on pumping hard cash into the normal exchanges and Gox keeps on sitting on a pile of BTCs.

If that's how you think it works, you didn't get it.

[smoothie]

Page 142 and counting.

Yes I agree. I am a fool who refuses to use an exchange that mistreats its customers and has USD withdrawal problems.

Yet I'm able to gain access to my funds via international or domestic wires without large delays. Only a fool would go that route as opposed to depositing BTC into the blackhole known mtgox and not being able to withdraw usd in a reasonable amount of time.

Such a fool I am 

[sturle]

Yes I agree. I am a fool who refuses to use an exchange that mistreats its customers and has USD withdrawal problems.

85% of MtGox's customers are from countries not using USD.  If you are among the minority who use USD and you don't need other features than the most basic selling of BTC and USD withdrawal, MtGox is not right for you at the moment.

I use many exchanges.  So far I have only withdrawn fiat from two of them.  Fiat withdrawal is not a big issue for me, as long as I can withdraw from one of the exchanges I use.  Features, API, liquidity, etc is much more important.  Those are properties I use every day, while fiat withdrawal is rare.  If you need to withdraw fiat in a hurry, it will always be faster to move your BTC to a local exchange, sell it and withdraw your local currency from there.

[N12]

MtGox is not right for anybody who doesn't intend to use SEPA (and even then it might not be right for you if you dislike waiting a month or more) or JPY domestic transfers for withdrawal.

You know, SWIFT handles any currency.

[smoothie]

Yes I agree. I am a fool who refuses to use an exchange that mistreats its customers and has USD withdrawal problems.

85% of MtGox's customers are from countries not using USD.  If you are among the minority who use USD and you don't need other features than the most basic selling of BTC and USD withdrawal, MtGox is not right for you at the moment.

I use many exchanges.  So far I have only withdrawn fiat from two of them.  Fiat withdrawal is not a big issue for me, as long as I can withdraw from one of the exchanges I use.  Features, API, liquidity, etc is much more important.  Those are properties I use every day, while fiat withdrawal is rare.  If you need to withdraw fiat in a hurry, it will always be faster to move your BTC to a local exchange, sell it and withdraw your local currency from there.

85%?

Proof please?

Also total volume in currency value traded is probably more important statistic than what country they are from. It's where the volume of BTC traded shows which currency is used and is most desired to trade for BTC.

Why do you reckon most BTC  volume traded on gox is in USD if it is preferred curreny to withdraw?

[N12]

MtGox is not right for anybody who doesn't intend to use SEPA (and even then it might not be right for you if you dislike waiting a month or more) or JPY domestic transfers for withdrawal.

You know, SWIFT handles any currency.

Where did you get the Part about JPY domestic transfers taking a month?

I didn't, I was referring to SEPA.

Also, I am not sure what we are arguing here. MtGox's overall Bitcoin volume (all currencies!) is rapidly detiorarating: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=7d This is proof enough. There is no excuse vs. btc-e and bitstamp who have fewer currencies and non-0 fees.

I don't even know for how much longer they will be able to continue to exist unless they fix withdrawals. The thing about this death spiral is that now, people are biginning to leave who value liquidity/volume which MtGox is continuing to lose.

[smoothie]

MtGox is not right for anybody who doesn't intend to use SEPA (and even then it might not be right for you if you dislike waiting a month or more) or JPY domestic transfers for withdrawal.

You know, SWIFT handles any currency.

Where did you get the Part about JPY domestic transfers taking a month?

I didn't, I was referring to SEPA.

Also, I am not sure what we are arguing here. MtGox's overall Bitcoin volume (all currencies!) is rapidly detiorarating: http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=7d This is proof enough. There is no excuse vs. btc-e and bitstamp who have fewer currencies and non-0 fees.

I don't even know for how much longer they will be able to continue to exist unless they fix withdrawals. The thing about this death spiral is that now, people are biginning to leave who value liquidity/volume which MtGox is continuing to lose.

Blitz thanks for the link I'll pass it on.

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=7d

Death spiral ...looking more like it everyday.

[sturle]

Yes I agree. I am a fool who refuses to use an exchange that mistreats its customers and has USD withdrawal problems.

85% of MtGox's customers are from countries not using USD.  If you are among the minority who use USD and you don't need other features than the most basic selling of BTC and USD withdrawal, MtGox is not right for you at the moment.

85%?

Proof please?

This is from November, before China sent the BTC price through the roof:

Code:

03:41 <@MagicalTux> cxeq, we have more than 15% of chinese customers
03:41 <@MagicalTux> (almost about to outgrow USA)

I assume MtGox have got more customers since then, and my educated guess is that the decline in number of new customers from the USSA has continued.  (I admit this is a guess, and am willing to concede to "more than 80%" if you can think of a good reason why the share of new users from the USSA would rise faster than 15%.)  The Chinese are probably not able to do foreign fiat transfers.  It doesn't seem to bother them.

Also total volume in currency value traded is probably more important statistic than what country they are from. It's where the volume of BTC traded shows which currency is used and is most desired to trade for BTC.

Why do you reckon most BTC  volume traded on gox is in USD if it is preferred curreny to withdraw?

Because USD is the most liquid currency on the exchange for historic reasons.  In the beginning it was the only supported currency.  When you trade large volumes in other currencies, the spread quickly get very high due to the 2.5% distance between orders placed in the native currency vs other currencies.  Convincing everyone to switch to another most liquid currency is not done overnight, and which of the 17 (I think) currencies would it be?  Most people will deposit their local currency or USD or EUR depending on their bank fees, and withdraw their local currency to avoid an extra currency conversion fee imposed by their bank.

[viajero]

There are a lot of good reasons to use MtGox.  Arbitrage for instance.  Buy on one exchange, sell on MtGox at 10% more, withdraw, repeat.  Domestic JPY withdrawals work smootly.  EUR as well, just quite slow.  No reason to be shocked about that.  People selling their coins for cheap at other exchanges is more shocking to me.  And there is day trading on MtGox, of course.  And multi-currency trading which enables you to profit even at times when BTC/USD is dead stable.  And multiple choices of APIs for bots.  And the owner and location is known.  Its not like handing over your money to some anonymous person on the street, like with some other exchanges.  And it operates legally, so you don't risk immediate closure.  Etc, but all this has been covered before.  There is no reason to be shocked.

thx for setting it straight again. in this thread you have 99 morons for every sane person. let those kids fight their sand box wars against mt.gox. they don't know what they are talking about. anybody who trusts BTC-E has left any sanity far, far behind.

[smoothie]

Yes I agree. I am a fool who refuses to use an exchange that mistreats its customers and has USD withdrawal problems.

85% of MtGox's customers are from countries not using USD.  If you are among the minority who use USD and you don't need other features than the most basic selling of BTC and USD withdrawal, MtGox is not right for you at the moment.

85%?

Proof please?

This is from November, before China sent the BTC price through the roof:

Code:

03:41 <@MagicalTux> cxeq, we have more than 15% of chinese customers
03:41 <@MagicalTux> (almost about to outgrow USA)

I assume MtGox have got more customers since then, and my educated guess is that the decline in number of new customers from the USSA has continued.  (I admit this is a guess, and am willing to concede to "more than 80%" if you can think of a good reason why the share of new users from the USSA would rise faster than 15%.)  The Chinese are probably not able to do foreign fiat transfers.  It doesn't seem to bother them.

Also total volume in currency value traded is probably more important statistic than what country they are from. It's where the volume of BTC traded shows which currency is used and is most desired to trade for BTC.

Why do you reckon most BTC  volume traded on gox is in USD if it is preferred curreny to withdraw?

Because USD is the most liquid currency on the exchange for historic reasons.  In the beginning it was the only supported currency.  When you trade large volumes in other currencies, the spread quickly get very high due to the 2.5% distance between orders placed in the native currency vs other currencies.  Convincing everyone to switch to another most liquid currency is not done overnight, and which of the 17 (I think) currencies would it be?  Most people will deposit their local currency or USD or EUR depending on their bank fees, and withdraw their local currency to avoid an extra currency conversion fee imposed by their bank.

LOL so your source is Mark K?

Very credible place to rely on information. At this point you are just drinking kool-aid if you don't have any hard facts other than what he said.

Just as I said, just because someone says something, doesn't make it true.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid...before it is MT(EMPTY)GOX.  

[smoothie]

There are a lot of good reasons to use MtGox.  Arbitrage for instance.  Buy on one exchange, sell on MtGox at 10% more, withdraw, repeat.  Domestic JPY withdrawals work smootly.  EUR as well, just quite slow.  No reason to be shocked about that.  People selling their coins for cheap at other exchanges is more shocking to me.  And there is day trading on MtGox, of course.  And multi-currency trading which enables you to profit even at times when BTC/USD is dead stable.  And multiple choices of APIs for bots.  And the owner and location is known.  Its not like handing over your money to some anonymous person on the street, like with some other exchanges.  And it operates legally, so you don't risk immediate closure.  Etc, but all this has been covered before.  There is no reason to be shocked.

thx for setting it straight again. in this thread you have 99 morons for every sane person. let those kids fight their sand box wars against mt.gox. they don't know what they are talking about. anybody who trusts BTC-E has left any sanity far, far behind.

LOL yes I'm a moron because I choose not to use EMPTYGox.

So if I use bitstamp or other exchanges aside from BTC-e I am a moron?

Glad we cleared that up. 

[viajero]

There are a lot of good reasons to use MtGox.  Arbitrage for instance.  Buy on one exchange, sell on MtGox at 10% more, withdraw, repeat.  Domestic JPY withdrawals work smootly.  EUR as well, just quite slow.  No reason to be shocked about that.  People selling their coins for cheap at other exchanges is more shocking to me.  And there is day trading on MtGox, of course.  And multi-currency trading which enables you to profit even at times when BTC/USD is dead stable.  And multiple choices of APIs for bots.  And the owner and location is known.  Its not like handing over your money to some anonymous person on the street, like with some other exchanges.  And it operates legally, so you don't risk immediate closure.  Etc, but all this has been covered before.  There is no reason to be shocked.

thx for setting it straight again. in this thread you have 99 morons for every sane person. let those kids fight their sand box wars against mt.gox. they don't know what they are talking about. anybody who trusts BTC-E has left any sanity far, far behind.

LOL yes I'm a moron because I choose not to use EMPTYGox.

So if I use bitstamp or other exchanges aside from BTC-e I am a moron?

Glad we cleared that up. 

spreading FUD and talking of "EMPTYGox" while Mt.Gox market depth is way bigger than bitstamp and BTC-E combined is a very clear sign that somebody is denying some very basic facts and therefore a pretty big moron.

gox has been through some serious shit but never took the hat and run off like many many others. the guys behind gox are not hiding in the dark, they face the problems and try to solve them. granted, they are not doing a very good job so far and communication suxx but how do you solve problems that are out of your reach?

[solex]

Still waiting for a 900€ SEPA withdrawal since july / 19



Half a year, six months, more than 180 days and dozens of mails to 'support' for a fucking 900€ withdrawal.

Ah, and they refuse to cancel my withdrawal too, they said the withdrawal has been processed from their part, but as you can see on the image the status is pending and i have not received a single penny.

Beware of using Gox guys.

This is unusual. Normally withdrawals languish for weeks and months as "confirmed" which means nothing more than you successfully clicked on the "ok" button to start the process. Hence they can be reversed.
"Pending" means they have attempted sending instructions to their bank. Looks like it has got lost and they can't be bothered investigating why.

[tvbcof]

Still waiting for a 900€ SEPA withdrawal since july / 19



Half a year, six months, more than 180 days and dozens of mails to 'support' for a fucking 900€ withdrawal.

Ah, and they refuse to cancel my withdrawal too, they said the withdrawal has been processed from their part, but as you can see on the image the status is pending and i have not received a single penny.

Beware of using Gox guys.

This is unusual. Normally withdrawals languish for weeks and months as "confirmed" which means nothing more than you successfully clicked on the "ok" button to start the process. Hence they can be reversed.
"Pending" means they have attempted sending instructions to their bank. Looks like it has got lost and they can't be bothered investigating why.

Considering it's in Euro, my first guess would be that Mt. Gox seems to thing they have some reason to believe that they guy is a criminal and decided to lock up his funds.  If so, he's not likely going to do anything more than carp about it anonymously on troll-talk.  If he does figure out how to leverage them, they can just say 'oops, our bad.'  I mean it's not like sitting on customer's funds for half a year is especially unusual business practices for them.  Ask me how I know.

[qxzn]

Anybody make a SWIFT withdrawal to the USA paying the extra 5% recently? What kind of delay?

I made a couple back in Octoberish that went through pretty quick, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the 5% option even has become somewhat saturated.

[smoothie]

There are a lot of good reasons to use MtGox.  Arbitrage for instance.  Buy on one exchange, sell on MtGox at 10% more, withdraw, repeat.  Domestic JPY withdrawals work smootly.  EUR as well, just quite slow.  No reason to be shocked about that.  People selling their coins for cheap at other exchanges is more shocking to me.  And there is day trading on MtGox, of course.  And multi-currency trading which enables you to profit even at times when BTC/USD is dead stable.  And multiple choices of APIs for bots.  And the owner and location is known.  Its not like handing over your money to some anonymous person on the street, like with some other exchanges.  And it operates legally, so you don't risk immediate closure.  Etc, but all this has been covered before.  There is no reason to be shocked.

thx for setting it straight again. in this thread you have 99 morons for every sane person. let those kids fight their sand box wars against mt.gox. they don't know what they are talking about. anybody who trusts BTC-E has left any sanity far, far behind.

LOL yes I'm a moron because I choose not to use EMPTYGox.

So if I use bitstamp or other exchanges aside from BTC-e I am a moron?

Glad we cleared that up.  

spreading FUD and talking of "EMPTYGox" while Mt.Gox market depth is way bigger than bitstamp and BTC-E combined is a very clear sign that somebody is denying some very basic facts and therefore a pretty big moron.

gox has been through some serious shit but never took the hat and run off like many many others. the guys behind gox are not hiding in the dark, they face the problems and try to solve them. granted, they are not doing a very good job so far and communication suxx but how do you solve problems that are out of your reach?

Depth on ONE currency means nothing when the TOTAL AMOUNT OF BTC VOLUME traded in ALL CURRENCIES is what matters. See here:

http://bitcoinity.org/markets/list?currency=ALL&span=7d

I guess we now know who the moron is eh? lol  

Simple put:

TOTAL BTC VOLUME TRADED > USD DEPTH ON MTGOX.

[sturle]

LOL so your source is Mark K?

Yes, and I don't know anyone who would know this better.

Very credible place to rely on information. At this point you are just drinking kool-aid if you don't have any hard facts other than what he said.

What reason would he have to lie about this?  There are no more credible sources for this information.  Only 4.45% of the world population are USSAnians.  19.1% are Chinese.  Why do you think MtGox is much more popular with USSAnians than people of other nationalities?  Are the US exchanges worse than MtGox?  I have wondered about the same thing, but you seen so certain that MtGox are even more popular in the USSA than they claim to be.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid...before it is MT(EMPTY)GOX.  

I don't know what you have been drinking, but I'm sure you are taking too much of it.  See your shrink again.

[sturle]

Half a year, six months, more than 180 days and dozens of mails to 'support' for a fucking 900€ withdrawal.

Did you ask them to ask their bank to trace the payment?  It is stuck somewhere in the bank system.

Ah, and they refuse to cancel my withdrawal too, they said the withdrawal has been processed from their part, but as you can see on the image the status is pending and i have not received a single penny.

Yep, it has been sent to the bank and processed there.  The money are probably out of MtGox's account.

[smoothie]

LOL so your source is Mark K?

Yes, and I don't know anyone who would know this better.

Very credible place to rely on information. At this point you are just drinking kool-aid if you don't have any hard facts other than what he said.

What reason would he have to lie about this?  There are no more credible sources for this information.  Only 4.45% of the world population are USSAnians.  19.1% are Chinese.  Why do you think MtGox is much more popular with USSAnians than people of other nationalities?  Are the US exchanges worse than MtGox?  I have wondered about the same thing, but you seen so certain that MtGox are even more popular in the USSA than they claim to be.

Keep drinking the Kool-aid...before it is MT(EMPTY)GOX.  

I don't know what you have been drinking, but I'm sure you are taking too much of it.  See your shrink again.

I just find it humorous that your ineptitude to come to reality on the real situation at GOX and its USD withdrawal failures to meet customer demands is funny.

Your kool-aid, if you haven't already figured it out (please keep up) is your bias to think that MTGOX is in fact operating a completely transparent and open exchange and that the amount of volume of BTC traded there is still at the top of the list when this has obviously changed.

Who cares if they have all these nice whistles and bells if one of the main things wrong with the exchange is its USD withdrawals. That's like saying:

"Look at this super duper hott car with all of the features most other cars don't have, but it doesn't drive and allow the owner to actual benefit from the purpose of the car, i.e. get places."

Mtgox has lost a ton of market share in BTC traded in the last 6 months. This trend will continue.

[Bismarckbkk]

Withdrawal delays are a sign the company does not keep segregated accounts of customer deposits. I have a wealth of experience with that kind of stuff from online gambling sites.

I have seen the same pattern over and over with registered and rubberstamp licensed companys. When withdrawal delays become unreasonable long and endemic its a clear sign that the company is short on funds and has spent customer deposits.

In every case that Iam aware off all the companys have eventually closed down and customers left stranded with no way to recover anything. Once a company goes down that route they rely on new deposits to pay out old debts. Its a vicious cycle that wont end well.